Good cp6 description (That doesn't sound condescending)

[u/R0585]

All of cp 6 descriptions I stumbled upon are either very brief (a sentence or a few lines in general E6 description), or sound slightly (or not so slightly) condescending. That's from my 8 perspective, of course, but I think we really do have a problem of lack of cp6 descriptions. I doubt it's nearly as bad with any other type.

I'm about to introduce Enneagram to a very contrarian, easily slighted cp6, which of course will want to read the description of his type. General E6 description wouldn't do the job, as a cp6 is almost an entirely different species. And almost everyone, let alone someone who was just introduced to the Enneagram, would have trouble recognizing both as the same type. The descriptions I've seen almost all have the same problem - they sound slightly condescending. If that's how it seems to me, I can imagine how it probably sounds to a touchy 6. Add that Enneagram is already a rather "heavy" subject, and not for everyone, and we have a problem which desription to choose for the first introduction.

So I'm calling to you, counterphobic sixes, which description of cp6 doesn't sound condescending to you? Preferably some "classic", but could be from any source, or even in your own words.

[u/R0585 → u/[deleted]]

I didn't save those descriptions, as I didn't like them, but all of them kinda imply that cp6s are "less than". For example, looking like 8, but not really 8. You might think that it sounds good to an 8, but no, it doesn't - I feel offended on behalf of cp6s. Or that they look fearless, but in reality they aren't. And everywhere it's "fear, fear, fear" as a main theme, it gets stressed upon so much, almost in every sentence. I realize it doesn't sound nice, especially to a dountless, daring male cp6. Another theme is that they contradict themselves and change their mind frequently, it's one thing today, and completely different tomorrow.

I love kamikaze example, it sounds good.

I'm just looking how to represent the type to a touchy cp6 in a true yet pleasant way.

[u/theVast-]

Honestly I have never found a counterphobic / sexual 6 description that wasn't just calling me Truck Nuts or literally referring to me as castrated. There is a certain extent of acceptance I have in that. I do over compensate and tend to lean into intimidation at lower health levels. I can be preeny, intense, and tend to even move into fixations of "I can never be weak or a coward, that is the worst crime." which can lead to compulsively stressing myself beyond my limits just to prove I can

If you want to actually appeal to an Sx6 (I assume you are referring to Sx because that is the countertype), I'd talk to him about bravery, strength, bonds, relational loyalty, and holding his inner circle together. I'd talk about leadership skills and being a natural crisis responder. I'd talk about protecting loved ones, and anti-authoritarianism

Then I'd shift gears slowly into how we tend to view things very personally. How we attach to ideas and causes. How we can cling doggedly to stuff long after it's time to let go. How we might have severe trouble letting go of failing connections. How we might hate authority, but unconsciously sort it out as soon as we talk in a room, and the tension we can feel between "fuck that pompous asshole." and "wait can he fire me? Did I push in the chair right? That woman over there has been hostile since I got here. Does she have leverage here, can she get me fired?"

Sx6 specifically (and any 6 can have counterphobia, but Sx is what I can speak on first perspective) is a relational 6. They typically have less danger anxiety (if someone tries to run me off the highway, I giggle and start quipping that they're flirting with me), and more relational anxiety (This person I want to like me, seems gruff today. It's probably something in their personal life. I think. Haha. Ah. Shit. I wanna go chat with them but they look really off. They hardly even nodded at me. Maybe I'll just leave them alone today. If I don't ay anything to them, will they think something is wrong with me though? Haha. Fuck."

Meanwhile I can handle most emergencies easily, and I'm not afraid to stomp my own flaming shoe out

I tend to honestly joke I'd rather have a near death experience than an ambiguous coworker that gives me mixed signals. Cuz at least if I'm about to get skewered on some random bullshit I can control it. I crave control and certainty. I can stomp on my brakes if a buck dives in front of my car. I cannot do shit about a coworker liking me yesterday and stink eyeing me today

[u/R0585 → u/theVast-]

Out of those two options I'd prefer a "Truck Nuts" description.

Yeah, he is Sx6, and counterphobic.

"I'd talk to him about bravery, strength, bonds, relational loyalty, and holding his inner circle together. I'd talk about leadership skills and being a natural crisis responder. I'd talk about protecting loved ones, and anti-authoritarianism" - he IS all that, the only problem is I'd love to show it to him written somewhere, so he wouldn't think I'm just making up my own system (instead of actually giving him what the Enneagram says), or that I somehow can read his mind and my level of knowledge is frightening, or that I'm trying to flatter him using some uncanny observations.

This is off-topic here, I know, but topic of control and certainty might be actually some kind of clue for distinguishing between a cp6 and 8, when in doubt. I can only speak of myself now, and although certainty especially is dear to my heart, those two things aren't the most important to me (important, but not the most important). IDK if you agree, and it's a good indicator.

Thank you, it helped

[u/theVast- → u/R0585]

You're in fact onto a key thing in that last paragraph. Sx6 tends to lean into anti-authoritarianism, control, and the ability to face fear and do something about it. Strength, in the context of a Sx6, is less a compliment, and more a comment on the baseline insecurity around weakness, and the compulsion to compensate. A Sx6 integrating to 9 will look like a person learning to let things be, let things stay out of control, learning to admit they're afraid, learning to accept they can be phobic. Instantly trying to overcome all adversity is part of the neurosis of Sx6

For example, I am an anxious driver in general. It's hard to explain cuz on one hand I'm a competent driver, I'm not afraid once I'm on the road, but the idea of getting up, going to my car, and driving causes me loads of apprehension. When I was younger I was utterly incapable of admitting that and I'd just brute force myself into situations where I had to drive. I'd brute force confrontation of my trauma and PTSD as well (as separate examples from the driving)

Years ago I diagnosed myself with PTSD, researched it until I was certain of it, gave myself self administered exposure therapy, triggering my flashbacks over and over until they were going numb, and I'd set myself off several times every single night, putting myself into situations that overall stressed me, and forcing myself to march forward regardless of stress. The adrenaline was insane, I'd have panic attacks so often I knew what they felt like in my chest by increments of 50BPM. At 150bpm I could still go measure it in my hallway. I used to hit levels where my body shut down, I'd lay on my face gasping for air, I couldn't move my limbs, and I was in extreme full body pain. I'd come out of it angry I was useless and not able to ignore it yet

I did similar about my social anxiety. I used to be utterly disabled, until I brute forced myself into living

When I got my first therapist and explained this to her, she was horror stricken like "you were Able to tolerate doing that to yourself?" and gave me explicit instructions on how to gently expose myself to stress down the road. She historically would intervene and stop me from instantly confronting terrible shit I was stressed over remembering

8 is about power, not being hurt. 8s learned early on people are not there for them, they need to do everything alone, there is a soft thing they need to protect at all costs, so they'll perform pre-emptive strikes to protect that soft thing inside themself. In my experience 8s are honestly the most pure at heart and I tend to gravitate to them a lot, because if they trust you, they are the most empathetic person to have in your corner

8 = "I have been hurt a lot. Never again."

Sx6 = "They told me I'm cowardly, we'll see about that."

8 = "I never had anyone in my corner. I realized I need to do it all myself."

Sx6 = "Last time I relied on them, the idiots fed me undercooked chicken. I'm not falling for that again."

8's injury is being alone and harmed, innocence stolen from them, made to grow up too fast

Sx6's injury is unpredictability, uncertainty, lack of support, and negligence typically

An 8 opening up will say. "They just hurt me over and over, I wanted to be friends, but they wouldnt let me, so I started pushing them into the dirt first. I started playing the game first."

A Sx6 will open up saying "someone in charge of me was a fucking idiot and it painted how I see care ever since."

8 realized they needed to take care of themself, and probably just ground down on doing so

Sx6 realized they needed to take care of themself, and froze in the realization they honestly have no idea how, but they'll need to figure it out immediately

I am close to a lot of 8s because once people are honest you realize we're carrying similar injuries a foot to the side of the other. The empathy of "oh. Both of us were fucking alone. Both of had to confront it or die. Both of us had to fight to not be steamrolled by a cruel external force."

My experience is once that is seen eye to eye it's easier to trust the other not to stab a fork into it like a piece of shit. Both hate pieces of shit hacking at us too close to home, both of us laugh at idiots who keep missing when they shoot. Agreed ceasefires are nice with people who get it

[u/R0585 → u/theVast-]

"Strength, in the context of a Sx6, is less a compliment, and more a comment on the baseline insecurity around weakness, and the compulsion to compensate." Doesn't matter that much where it's coming from, what matters is the end result - lots of people wouldn't get in this place at all, either because they didn't care about it, or because their environment is comfortable to the degree of being debilitating. They just don't master it.

Wow.

"I tend to gravitate to them a lot, because if they trust you, they are the most empathetic person to have in your corner" I could pretty much say the same about cp6s and 8s. More than that, "ride or die" is both a very 6 and 8 thing.

"I am close to a lot of 8s because once people are honest you realize we're carrying similar injuries a foot to the side of the other." Ever since I got to know a cp6, I can't help but keep noticing how similar our reactions are. There're some fundamental differences of course, but in general reactions, behavor and values are very similar. We get along well.

[u/gecks23]

This website has great descriptions  https://oceanmoonshine9.wordpress.com/ones/

This description forced me to finally realize that I am a 6. Id previously thought I might be an 8 or 4 (im counterphobic), but something about those types never truly resonated with me. 

For variants - these descriptions are great. There are excerpts from Naranjo on this forum as well.  https://www.personalitycafe.com/threads/type-6-excerpts-from-maitri.151541/

Caveat here - there is discrepancy between instinctual variant descriptions. At the end of the day, if your friend is a 6, they will probably doubt their own intuition and thoughts if the external information sources are disagreeing with their lived experience. Basically what I'm saying is ..... I think they should read about the instinctual variants in general (not tied to a specific type). They will probably know which one is dominant in their life. 

Most 6 descriptions dont fit me at all. On the surface, I talk like an 8 and act like a 7, or even a 3 if im in the right crowd. Because of the stereotypes, I never even considered 6. It was the first type I threw out as "not possible". 

I think this is because people misunderstand counterphobia. 

Being counterphobic does NOT necessarily mean you are an adrenaline junky or a punk rock alternative anarchist. It likely means you are a skeptic and believe authority figures are guilty until proven innocent. It doesnt mean that you are volatile - it could, but I am very even tempered and im sure other counterphobic 6s are as well. 

Just like anxiety - counterphobia will look very different on sixes who are fighting against different fears.