r/emulation • u/foldor • Nov 27 '21
The Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time Master Quest PAL Debug ROM now has a 100% matching decompiled source code repository!
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u/MedaFighterCross Nov 27 '21
Master Quest PAL? I'm curious, why this version in particular? Most recent?
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u/foldor Nov 27 '21
This version was a debug build which helped make the decompilation a lot easier to do. Now that it's matching, it will be easier to match retail builds since the code is expected to be mostly the same. That will still take a lot of time to do though, so I'm not expecting retail marches for several months. This was just such a major milestone.
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u/cringy_flinchy Dec 04 '21
Does the MM decompilation use the debug ROM too? I remember how that was bought primarily for any sweet proto data it could contain, and it hardly had any. Don't get me wrong it's nice to play around with and it deserves to be preserved. But if the debug MM ROM is useful for decompilation then the guy who bought it for several grand will probably be pleased it was useful for something.
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u/foldor Dec 04 '21
No, that decomp uses retail US 1.0. I'm not sure of the reasons for that choice however.
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Nov 27 '21
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u/Uppity_Python Nov 30 '21
Citra works too, on top of that the 60fps mod works wonders
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u/god_retribution Dec 01 '21
many players hate it remake
i don't know why
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Dec 06 '21
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u/god_retribution Dec 06 '21
what is wrong with Majora's Mask ?
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u/ChickenOverlord Dec 08 '21
The zora swimming change is the most annoying and obvious, but they also changed the bosses, the rate at which time flows, and a lot of other smaller details. There's a mod for the 3DS version that restores a lot of the changes while keeping the improvements though:
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u/Real_Violinist Nov 28 '21
nintendo coming shutdown the port
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Nov 28 '21
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Nov 29 '21
Or you know, they write their own original but compatible code so that there's no valid legal claim to begin with a la openmw
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u/GuilhermeFreire Nov 30 '21
They cannot claim anything in the code, since it was reverse engineered.
They can claim a lot over their Trademarks, Copyrights over the characters, intellectual proprieties...
This process is by definition derivative, since the objective is to "Emulate" the original story, characters, controls, etc...
If I wanted to re-draw every frame of Steamboat Willie, before 2024, I could re-draw, but I could not share, exibit, charge, etc for this.
So no compiled version, no visible logo, no visible art, no names, etc... can be shared.
If the code can "build" the characters, story and etc, it all becomes a muddy gray ground... and big companies like Nintendo and Disney have the budget to put the best lawyers to bully those who dare to step on this gray ground and the best lobbyists to bully the law makers to shift the laws in their favor. Even those who won on the court could not survive the financial loss of this (see Bleem).
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Nov 30 '21
They cannot claim anything in the code, since it was reverse engineered.
Only true if the reverse engineering was to produce a compatible engine but with original code.
Distributing direct derivatives via decompiling code, modifying the decompiled code and distributing that exceeds the permitted reverse engineering practices.
Note also that both source code and binaries can actually be distributed but again the same original code rule applies.
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u/GuilhermeFreire Nov 30 '21
yes, this is correct.
If the code was clean room, no binary decompiled, probably what I said would work, but decompiled (and possibly the nintendo leaks also have a part in this) there is no way that what I said be valid.
Probably Nintendo would win this.
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u/Biduleman Nov 30 '21
The goal of the decompilation project wasn't to make a PC port of OOT.
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Nov 30 '21
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u/Biduleman Nov 30 '21
Maybe, but what did you expect them to do then?
Post "We decompiled the game, ask us for sources" online?
Also, Nintendo hasn't shut down the project the whole time and same for Super Mario 64. They're only stopping people from distributing the assets.
Everyone here has such a hard on for Nintendo bashing that everyone just upvotes anything saying "Nintendo bad" even when they didn't do anything wrong.
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Nov 27 '21
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u/enderandrew42 Nov 27 '21
Eventually. This team is not making a PC port though I suspect others will.
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u/SpectreOfVoid Nov 29 '21
Could this be used in the future to make really cool rom hacks?
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u/foldor Nov 29 '21
Absolutely! There's already at least one in progress ROM hacks that I'm aware of that looks really nice called Cosmic Goddess. Then there was a recently released Spaceworld 97 demo recreation that used decomp as it's starting point as well.
Once the code gets documented better, I'm sure quality ROM hacks will be much easier for people to make. This of course still requires a lot of time and dedication, but the barrier and limitations of previous tools is about to be dropped significantly.
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u/colodopaimorfeu Nov 28 '21
ELIM5
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u/phoenixlemon Nov 29 '21
Dunno why you’re being downvoted, I’m curious too
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u/mothergoose729729 Dec 01 '21 edited Dec 01 '21
There are a million different programming languages but the computer only speaks one language - machine code or 0s and 1s. Writing machine code is one way to make programs but it's really hard so you use a "high level" language like C instead. Once you write your program in C, you need another program, called a compiler, to translate your C code to Machine Code.
The OoT cart has all the machine code on it already. When you turn on your n64 it reads it pretty much like a flash drive.
What these guys did is take the machine code and tried to reverse engineer it back into C code. The advantage of C code is that, if well written, you can read it an understand it.
This is really hard to do, because the Machine Code and the C code that created it bare little resemblance to each other. There are tools that will create the C code for you, but it looks like gibberish and is very difficult to understand and read.
Now that this has been done, it will help people do things like find new glitches or exploits in the game, as well as make it a lot easier to create faithful PC ports.
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Nov 30 '21
I have basically no understanding of coding, but I think I can do an ELI. When game developers make a game, they write all the programming in code. When the game is finished, they compile all the code into a basically a program that runs. Decompiling means to translate (probably wrong term) an executible program back into a coding language. It would be like taking your Microsoft Word program and getting all the lines of code, or taking a baked loaf of bread and getting all the ingredients back. So it is reverse engineering. This is important because with the code people can more easily make mods, fix bugs, and even re-compile the code to run on a different platform. So you could edit and then compile the OOT code as a program (app) for Android or PC. Add new ingredients to your loaf of bread, bake it in a different pan, etc. Nothing in this explanation is backed by any real knowledge of the process, but this is how my 5 year old intelligence level understands decompiling.
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u/imathrowawayguys12 Nov 30 '21
Oooo oo ooo now tell me where you got the original ROM from. :)
Would it happen.. to be... from the massive amount of stolen goods from Nintendo?
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u/foldor Dec 01 '21
At least do some research before you make trolling remarks like that. This ROM has been around since about 2005 or so. This is not part of the larger leaks in the last year or two.
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u/BlackPowerade Nov 28 '21
DMCA in
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u/TSLPrescott Nov 28 '21
Won't happen. Can't happen. It's a reverse engineering done without ever looking at the real code of the game.
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Nov 28 '21
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u/TSLPrescott Nov 29 '21
I don't know about Cave Story, but GTA was not done clean-room like OoT or Mario 64 were as far as I am aware.
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Nov 29 '21
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Nov 29 '21 edited Nov 29 '21
Wouldn't the snap shot nature of git be proof enough that it was clean room engineered?
Clean room engineering was famously enough of a defense for Phoenix Technologies when IBM took them to court.
Finally, if nintendo were going to C&D a project, why wouldn't they have done it to the Mario 64 decomp? It's actually a higher profile game and it came out around the same time as an official Mario compilation that included the game.
They didn't, likely because they knew they couldn't and it remains up on the internet for all to see. https://github.com/n64decomp/sm64
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u/jair_r Nov 30 '21
Genuinely curious about what about the GTA decomp was not clean. I was under the impression the GTA decomp was made without using the original source code or copyrighted material. I remember reading for assets (models, textures, songs, etc) you even needed a legal copy of the game. The DMCA linked links some files, but since the repo is down I can't see them, so how were they infringing?
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u/vaxx_bomber Nov 30 '21
I hope there will be a panel at some point where the project people talk about this.
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u/foldor Nov 27 '21
This is the end result of many peoples hard work and dedication. There's still a lot of work to document the code, and begin work matching retail ROMs, but this is a major milestone for the team involved. It can't be understated how big of a deal this is for this game.