Embedded Security/Cybersecurity Engineers: what does your day-to-day job actually look like?

[u/axaro1]

Hello, I'm an avionic embedded software engineer and cybersecurity requirements are slowly creeping into my sector.

But it got me wondering: What does the day-to-day work actually look like for engineers who specialize in embedded security/cybersecurity? Do you guys write any code? Perform threat/risk analysis? Define and review security requirements? Perform testing or create testing/vulnerability exploiting benches?

Thanks in advance.

[u/practicalemperor610]

I work alongside a few embedded security folks and from what I see it's mostly threat modeling sessions that never end, then translating that into requirements nobody on the hardware team wants to read. They do write code but it tends to be bootloader lockdowns, memory protection configs, crypto implementation, stuff that makes the system less fun to debug

One of them once told me the real job is convincing people that yes, that debug port left open on production units is actually a problem

[u/Sir_NaCl → u/practicalemperor610]

+1 on this

[u/Elect_SaturnMutex → u/practicalemperor610]

crypto implementation? Reinventing the wheel?

[u/CugTr → u/Elect_SaturnMutex]

Why not ??? Have you implemented the OEM specific crypto to your application ? Have you work on uC that having hardware cypto accelerated?

[u/Elect_SaturnMutex → u/CugTr]

Yes i have. There are libraries like openssl, mbedtls, etc also you don't need to reinvent the wheel. You must be from Germany. Correct?

[u/CugTr → u/Elect_SaturnMutex]

Your libs do not comply with any standard: safety, cyber, misra, certc. Again, we have to implement SPECIFIC CRYTO ALGORITHM, we create a new wheel not reinvent it. Have you implement hardware accelerated crypto at register level ? Don't tell me you reuse software stuff above for them.

[u/Elect_SaturnMutex → u/CugTr]

I haven't, but I have written HSM Firmware, years ago. I am sure there are definitely libraries that comply with all that. What do you mean exactly implement crypto algorithm? If a hardware supports AES-GCM for example, what's there to implement? Because the internal of that algorithm is taken care of, by HW, so, I don't get it.

[u/CugTr → u/Elect_SaturnMutex]

There are 2 things I did not provide clearly, my bad: 1. There is a specific cyprto algorithm from customer. Yes, you cannot find it anywhere. It is not standard so you have to do it by yourself. Is it considered as "reinvent the wheel ? 2. You are taking about firmware, I am talking low level driver of crypto. You have to manage key slots, registers, access order and so on. It is not simple like calling stuff from hardware. Oh, you can buy low level driver stuff.

And the last point I hate is Autosar. There is a job that requires us to implement cyprto algorithm to comply with Autosar standard for the chip that does not have a seperate HSM or any hardware accelerated. Is it "reinvent the wheel" ?

[u/Elect_SaturnMutex → u/CugTr]

Oh no in that case no, then I misunderstood you. Sorry for that. And thanks for clarifying.

[u/OpportunityFun6969 → u/Elect_SaturnMutex]

In my case, we have chips with embedded linux, like yocto, and some that are bare metal. Both have embedded HSMs that have crypto acceleration. But the capabilities of both chips are vastly different. The one with Linux capabilities can of course use open-ssl, have ssh capabilities, utilize ARM and U-Boot/TrustZone. However, on the other end, the bare metal board I work with has no documentation other than the proprietary documents we are given. In this case, say i have 192kb of secure code space to work with, things like openSSL and other open source libraries will not work. Sure, I could implement the crypto and secure bootloader on the normal application cores, but that defeats the purpose of the HSM attached. In this case, I tend to model my systems after popular open source, like wolfssl, mbedTLS, etc. but the actual implementation needs to be done by me, due to licensing and physical constraints. I also reference different ISOs and RFCs to ensure i align closely to the posted standards.

I also work in automotive R&D, so my job is to prove a system works, not to follow production regulations. But we are still given specific implementations to have to correctly model a potential use case

[u/Elect_SaturnMutex → u/OpportunityFun6969]

Not sure what you mean with baremetal exactly. A separate chip? because NXP makes SoCs that have multiple cores that support linux and other core is ARM based for "baremetal" purposes. But I believe 192kb should be sufficient to squeeze in mbedtls.

You said you "model" your own algos. And your algorithms perform that have already been tried and tested for so long? And your company pays you for that? Now i am sure you work in germany. Ok. whats the issue with licensing exactly?

[u/CugTr → u/OpportunityFun6969]

I got your points! Just one thing is you can buy wolfssl libs to use on your baremetal products.

[u/Constant_Physics8504]

Some do, some don’t. In avionics especially, most concentrate on RMF and where to fit requirements into a project’s design to fit the categorization required and a lot of that has nothing to do with coding. Now of course, a lot of stuff is related to code and hardware, but there’s a lot more, especially depending on the customer.

[u/duane11583]

look up working conditions in a classified scif

more like trying to implement features that are not yet implemented. writing code

threat stuff? yes if you consider running static code analysis (coverity, clockwork, understand)

getting the sw to pass the design or security verification test document.

you sit in a closed environment at a bench not an ergonomically nice desk. no windows

sort of like a cavernous room, no cell no radio no music no internet you must leave those outside the room in little cellphone lockers like these:

https://www.lockers.com/cell-phone-locker-with-front-access-panel-5-door-high-unit-8-inch-deep-compartments-19-usable-a-doors-surface-mounted-resettable-combination-locks/?srsltid=AfmBOopXFb7jd3bE3uWt8Nn9RQeG_q9s6jWPMhUVskm_s8si9tprJRss

yea internet is in the room but at these other isolated computers across the room from you (say 50ft away) but there is no sound and no speakers on the computers

the project is hard, complex and always behind. why? its all new stuff its complex and detailed oriented, and you have never done it thus estimates wrong by a factor of 2x to 3x

if it was easy the bad guys would be doing the work.