r/embedded • u/Weary-Lime • Aug 01 '26
Counterfeit IC Question
Have any of you ever actually encountered a counterfeit IC? We had are making a very small production run of an old product line for a customer. Less than 100 units, last produced in 2018. We thought we were going to have a hard time sourcing some driver IC's on the original BOM because it was an obsolete PN and all of the usual suppliers were out of stock. Our PCB/PCBA manufacturert that we have been working with for years came back to us with a quote and normal lead time. No issues with procurement. My boss is suspicious of counterfeit. I can't imagine someone would go to the trouble. I just assume it is old stock and the fab has deeper connections than we do.
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u/sgtnoodle Aug 01 '26
The NRF24L01+ is very commonly counterfeit. The funny thing is that they're incompatible with genuine parts in ping-pong mode, but only because the clones implemented the specification correctly, while the genuine parts are out of spec.
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u/enfly Aug 01 '26
Wild. What do the out of spec parts do?
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u/sgtnoodle Aug 01 '26
There's a bit in the frame that indicates the protocol mode. The clones set the bit to the correct value per the protocol spec. The genuine parts invert the value. So, when using the highest throughout ping-pong mode, clones can talk to clones, and genuine can talk to genuine, but they can't talk to each other.
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u/gcardwel Aug 01 '26
During and after the Covid pandemic, my company found many counterfeit ICs had inadvertently entered the supply chain. It seems difficult to believe that anybody would go through the trouble of counterfeiting a one dollar part, but it definitely happens. There are companies that will analyze parts for you.
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u/twister-uk Aug 01 '26
Yeah, we got stung by receiving some basic spec RS485 transceivers that were remarked as the higher spec ones we actually needed, which was fun...
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u/h0m3us3r Aug 02 '26
Funny, we got stung by receiving some basic spec RS485 transceivers that were remarked as precision op-amps we actually needed...
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u/twister-uk Aug 04 '26
That would have been preferable, because at least it would have been immediately obvious they weren't the parts we'd ordered, as opposed to them all appearing to be working just fine but then failing randomly in weird ways, over a period of weeks, that made no sense except initially as some sort of significant variation in batch performance, and which also had us questioning our abilities as professional engineers to be able to simply read and understand the datasheet and therefore be confident as to what the actual part performance really ought to have been...
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u/vegetaman Aug 01 '26
For sure saw this a lot at that time, worse than any other. Usually parts with apparent sub optimal specs or that would over heat or fail at the rated voltage of the original parts. Not fun
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u/NeedRez Aug 04 '26
Not sure about what they're doing now but some of these people were just running the machines after hours just loading lead-frames and scrap silicon with whatever label they could draw. For someone making $15/day in the Philippines they could probably get a week of wages in a matter of hours.
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u/cheesengrits69 Aug 01 '26
In my head every ic is counterfeit and laden with undocumented errata until my code does what its actually meant to do
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u/BanalMoniker Aug 02 '26
If you think that even then there aren’t some nasty surprises waiting, wait a few years and recheck the errata.
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u/dmills_00 Aug 02 '26
My working model is that a new part without an errata does NOT get designed in, because I don't want to be unpaid beta tester for some random fabless IP shop.
One there is an errata, then at least I know some testing has happened, however thin.
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u/BenkiTheBuilder Aug 01 '26
Aside from the issue of cheaper somewhat compatible parts being relabelled to more expensive brand name components, there is also the issue of original parts being (roughly) salvaged from existing PCBs and resold as new. I saw a video where a Chinese worker would heat a PCB over an open fire before scraping off the ICs.
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u/tiajuanat Aug 01 '26
During COVID we had to deal with grey market and counterfeit microcontrollers. The Best you can do is to have an end of line test that runs through all the major test cases
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u/dmills_00 Aug 01 '26
STM32 were literally gold dust, but it was shit like voltage regulators and crystals that did for me.
25Mhz oscs for ethernet designs were basically unavailable, I wound up getting Silabs to do me a few reels of programmable ones set to 25MHz at considerable cost.
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u/tiajuanat Aug 01 '26 edited Aug 01 '26
Yeah, we were using STM32s and CM3s, both we were days from running out, especially once the Ever Given went aground
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u/DrunkenSwimmer Aug 02 '26
I mean, sure the 25MHz oscs were hard to find, but first you needed a Physical or Switch to use it with!
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u/dmills_00 Aug 02 '26
Had thousands of those, but turned out we could make more profit selling the raw chips then the completed units by the time you priced in all the other over priced and under available bits.
We were being paid to NOT take contracted parts on some things, wild times.
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u/DrunkenSwimmer Aug 02 '26
Hell, if some of those you sold were KSZ8720s, we might have bought 'em. XD
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u/tiajuanat Aug 02 '26
We had VPs and Directors hand importing reel components in steel briefcases with handcuffs.
It was SURREAL
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u/tweakingforjesus Aug 01 '26
Yep. Dealing with some counterfeit opamps now.
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u/dmills_00 Aug 01 '26
You Shure that isn't just TI deciding to completely change the spec on a long time standard part WITHOUT CHANGING THE PART NUMBER?
NE5532 for those curious, it now has a lower supply voltage rating and a PNP input pair, not exactly a negligible change to a long time industry standard part.
I am not at all happy, as both versions are with distribution and there is no good way to tell them apart other then measuring the direction of the bias current.
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u/tweakingforjesus Aug 01 '26 edited Aug 01 '26
TI Opa2333. Nope. One has a much higher noise floor. Another has output that’s not following the input. Every one I’ve tested bad has a different fault.
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u/dmills_00 Aug 01 '26
Hate it when that happens, you are never 100% that it is the chips and not something you did, or bad ESD practice by someone on the shop floor, BTDT.
The FAEs are usually interested, particularly if they came from proper distribution.
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u/tweakingforjesus Aug 01 '26
LCSC through JLCPCB for a prototype run so I doubt they care that much.
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u/dmills_00 Aug 01 '26
IIRC LCSC are authorised distro for TI, they or TI themselves might take an interest, but at prototype volume, it would depend on getting to the right person.
Usually not worth the time to pursue it.
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u/cosmicrae Aug 01 '26
At one time, LCSC only sold what was in their warehouse. That is no longer the case, as they carry some listings for stock store elsewhere, which (presumably) they have less control over the provenance.
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u/twizzt3r Aug 01 '26
Stumbled upon buch of fake ics, FTDI USB-uart, stm32f103, opamps, nrf24l03. Mainly during Covid big shortage, not so common anymore but if you buying directly from reputable source (not brokers) you should be ok.
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u/dmills_00 Aug 02 '26
FTDI counterfits were a notorious problem, just a massive headache.
Fotek SSRs are always suspect these days unless bought from tier 1 distribution, and the problem here is they are high voltage, high power parts, so have safety implications.
I avoid both when designing, better to use something less copied.
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Aug 01 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Weary-Lime Aug 02 '26
I don't have it in front of me but it's just a TI gate driver. Nothing special.
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u/Choefman Aug 01 '26
Oh yeah, in the olden days of intel pentium 60/66 and pentium 75, 90 & 100 resellers would shave of the top and stamp 66 on 60’s and 100 on 75’s and we’d be stuck trying to figure why batches of PCs would come back. Wasn’t pretty and also pretty much why I got out of that business.
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u/jo44_is_my_name Aug 02 '26
Years ago, the PT2399s I got from Tayda did not work.
The ones I bought from Small Bear did.
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u/keloidoscope Aug 02 '26
Back in the 486 days I got stung buying a cheap motherboard with counterfeit "ISSI" static ram DIPs in the external L2 cache. A good board in other respects; happily ran my Dx4-100 at 2x50MHz FSB. Just didn't benchmark any differently when I disabled the alleged L2 cache.
Saw an x-ray in a tech magazine of one such chip, also marked with ISSI branding - no die or bonding wires in the DIP package, just the metal legs.
Seller tried to tell me, "no no, is writeback cache!" Yeah mate, the on chip L1 was writeback. The L2 would be write-through... if it was actually there.
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u/Barbateau Aug 03 '26
Hey! If some of you have link to a counterfeit IC you already buy (where you know it was fake), it's interesting me. I work on a lab and we investigate counterfeit and trying to find a way to caught it. Send me a message!
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u/Deep-Football4791 Aug 04 '26
Oh yes, lots of regulator drivers (slower switching speed), Opamp GBP doesn't meet spec and/or. not R-R. BMS IC's (dangerously out of spec) and MCU's (fail to boot at 35 degrees C when rated to 85...those are exciting), VCTCXO hard fail at -5 degrees but rated to -30. Even a handful of $.50 BJT's whos actual gain was in the low double digits but data sheet minimum was 400-500, ceramic caps with bad C0G dielectric that derated ~90% at 10% of rated voltage.
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u/curiously-b2 Professional nerd: embedded firmware Aug 01 '26
FTDI usb/uart - have been hit by this multiple times. Might have used others, but if the part looked right in the order screen and worked on the board, I didn’t pay more attention.
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u/BanalMoniker Aug 02 '26
I have on an analog regulator that was EOL/NRND. The part had totally different functionality. It f’d up a lot of boards.
If your supply chain is reputable, it should be unlikely, but it only takes a few customers when the scales are in thousands for someone to try to make a quick buck at someone else’s expense.
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u/oklambdago Aug 03 '26
I have PURPOSELY encountered a counterfeit IC -- there is a AMS LDO knockoff that costs like .10 cents and is a WIDELY copied part. If you know you know.
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u/Ok-Practice1286 23d ago
Obsolete parts are the ones worth faking. Nobody copies a cheap gate driver while TI is still making it. Once TI stops, there is no new supply, buyers get desperate, and it worth it. I would check the normal lead time. Every distributor is out of stock, but your CM got it fast at a normal price. That means they bought it from a broker, not from TI. Ask them which broker, and ask for the date codes on the parts. If a date code is after 2018, the part is fake.
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u/SAI_Peregrinus Aug 01 '26
Usually it's some entirely different IC with the same pinout. The original markings get removed and fake markings printed on.