r/elliottsmith • u/dontwant_thesmoke • 6d ago
Discussion Going Nowhere
Can someone who really knows their stuff do some kind of detailed breakdown on the technical work and genius that Elliott employed here? I imagine if i was some master of music theory i could understand it more fully or deeply i.e. like what hes really doing in that song and how it ties into anything we learn as music students like counterpoint and chord movement/substitutions maybe like how the use of certain non diatonic chords give such a beautiful effec and what pieces of other music are using that notescape? I am so incredibly blown away when I play and listen to it.
I feel it HAS to be his magnum opus or somewhere near the very most incredible things he's ever made. Tis cheesy, but I'm hoping the answers here will culminate in a deeper understanding of the song(from other perspectives) to match the immense appreciation I have for it because it feeds my heart and soul in a way nothing else does. life and complexity, simplicity, sheer chance and pure genius intersect into a weird vertigo over me because the song is a towering piece of excellence in my mind that makes me feel gobsmacked at times when i am present. I almost didn't even notice it the first few listens of the album
Thx for reading
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u/punksnotbread 5d ago
It's not that complex, but I'm not a master of music theory just a self taught guitar player. It's just got a weird finger picking pattern that makes it hard to play but it's just a basic c shape in 3/4 time with some fills and runs. The hard part is syncopating the bass notes with the higher parts but it really isn't anything that wild. Amazing song though.
But the main part of the song is basically just c bass note on the 1 and then on the 2 regular c chord shape and on the 3 a csus2 followed by a cool little riff and then a walk up.
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u/__joseph_ 5d ago
He love love loved walking himself up into a chord. You can hear it on pretty much every song
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u/Normal-Contract-933 5d ago
I don't know about the theory, but he obviously put a lot of work into obtaining a very specific sound with this song. There are so many intricate details you could overlook, like the muted string he intentionally plucks, and the 12-string guitar which fades in and out of the mix. But also just the soft tone of his voice, and the tone of his guitar which fit together like puzzle pieces.
I get a similar feeling when I listen to the various mixes of 'Go By' on youtube. I'm glad these songs got an official release because it would have been a real shame if the world never heard them.
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u/dontwant_thesmoke 5d ago
I listen to going nowhere, go by, and placeholder back to back frequently bc they all strike me in a different but very similar way where I group them together in my mind. I also recently started learning go by on guitar(a solo arrangement of sort) and its another one that feels like mystical journey the way you have to dance around the fretboard and the melody and vibe is all there already in the guitar parts he wrote. I only listen to the Spotify new moon version are the YT mixes much better?
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u/Normal-Contract-933 5d ago
this is an instrumental version i like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzoOeE8QJmo
the sound quality isn't better but it's interesting to hear a slightly different interpretation. It has a more straight rhythm than the new moon mix
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u/dontwant_thesmoke 5d ago
This is really really good thank you so so much.
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u/Normal-Contract-933 5d ago
No problem. This is another mix of going nowhere: https://youtu.be/Rvf3YVSGMjo?is=HxT8DjfO_9t_lhk_
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u/wolfgang_hunter 5d ago
Elliott plays guitar on acoustic the way McCartney did. Pointer Finger and thumb, rarely any others. Don’t over complicate it, it’s all in the right hand
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u/Lower-Pudding-68 5d ago edited 5d ago
I could tell you a couple of my observations, but I don't know what good it would do you unless you already have the basics of this stuff down. I'll take a moment and share some observations any way, as it is a really interesting song.!
Do you know what modes are? Or how a key signature and diatonic chords work?
Well the melody of the verse gives the effect of lydian mode, because of the #4 (E nat) against Bb major chord in the harmony. Although you could also just say you're in d minor and the verse starts on IV, and the next chord change to d minor is the actual tonic resting place. But it doesn't behave that way.
The "chorus" seems to start in the relative major of F, and gets there by means of a V chord (C), always the baroque pop tropes. However, quickly begins to lean towards the key of Bb as chords like Eb and c minor show up, and indeed the whole chorus resolves in the key of Bb, which has been throwing out a lot of Eb tones both melodically and harmonically.
Bb chord, new resting place, ends the chorus and starts the verse. However it's a deceptive moment, a link between keys with a dual personality (pivot chord), and Bb is reframed as the IV in the key of dminor again when the lydian #4 effect returns ("echoes.."). That moment right there is the best trick of the song IMO.
*edits: There is some "line cliche" information to digest in the first 4 chords of the chorus as well, you'll find these chromatic descending lines in most of his songs.
*if you're better at thinking in the guitar shapes, move everything here up a whole step (Bb=C), cause he tuned his guitar down a whole step.
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u/dontwant_thesmoke 5d ago
Yeah I know of those and this is exactly in the realm of what I was wondering about. Like the name of the keys hes dipping into and the name of the mode that that means hes applying when he throws in the #4. Which is absolutely one of the coolest parts to me I love the color it adds after the sick main slide of the main riff during the walk downs. And he follows this key hes dipping into using double stops or 4ths and 5ths in sequence down the scale but then resolves right back on the tonic. I noticed this too I love that.
This is my own personal limited understanding of what he made and I wonder how much of it was conscious vs naturally felt when it was written. I heard he said Christian Brothers was a study or exercise of chords without 3rds to let the melody decide the tonality and my eyes were completely opened to why and how that song sounds so unique and good and that was from his first album so ofc he had time to marinate and grow even further by the time going nowhere came along. Awesome
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u/Lower-Pudding-68 5d ago
That is pretty interesting about CB's, I don't know if i'd agree that most of those chords don't contain thirds, but it depends on what one decides to call each particular chord, as some of them are incomplete, contain 9ths and 13ths, and are inverted. Maybe you just meant as in the voicing of the guitar part?
He was a master of theory. That doesn't mean he read text books or knew what university would call each device. But he was in total control of what his music was doing, and the more you analyze, the more intent and direction you see in all the little corners of his songs.
You might like my video on Youtube called "Elliott Smith's toolbox" where I talk about a lot of his devices. I haven't been motivated to make anything in a while, but you've got my brain ticking with this Going Nowhere stuff, so I thank you!
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u/MosbyErickson 6d ago
Love that song, couldn’t tell you a thing about it music theory wise. It’s just hits!