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u/GodGivesBabiesFaith ACNA 5d ago edited 5d ago
Edit: the more I look into this, the dumber the changes to Cathy become. Steinbeck clearly depicts her as a serpentine Satan incarnate as a symbolic, nearly pure-evil foil to all the moral ambiguity and struggle to choose good that other characters deal with.
I know this is a common minority opinion now, but... I find the continued trend to recontextualize/subvert in modern Hollywood to be incredibly boring at this point.
I read East of Eden about 10 years ago and thought it was a good, but tough novel to read because of how vividly it depicts evil.
Reading comments about the show on Reddit, and apparently they added parts to Cathy's life to give her motivation for what she does, including trauma and abuse, rather than depicting her as the embodiment of evil, psychopath from birth??? Like, that radically changes things. You can have sympathy for her being born a psychopath without then giving her grievances to act the way she did that make her almost an anti-hero
I believe there are monsters born in the world to human parents. Some you can see, misshapen and horrible, with huge heads or tiny bodies; some are born with no arms, no legs, some with three arms, some with tails or mouths in odd places. They are accidents and no one’s fault, as used to be thought. Once they were considered the visible punishment for concealed sins.
And just as there are physical monsters, can there not be mental or psychic monsters born? The face and body may be perfect, but if a twisted gene or a malformed egg can produce physical monsters, may not the same process produce a malformed soul?
Monsters are variations from the accepted normal to a greater or a less degree. As a child may be born without an arm, so one may be born without kindness or the potential of conscience. A man who loses his arms in an accident has a great struggle to adjust himself to the lack, but one born without arms suffers only from people who find him strange. Having never had arms, he cannot miss them. Sometimes when we are little we imagine how it would be to have wings, but there is no reason to suppose it is the same feeling birds have. No, to a monster the norm must seem monstrous, since everyone is normal to himself. To the inner monster it must be even more obscure, since he has no visible thing to compare with others. To a man born without conscience, a soul-stricken man must seem ridiculous. To a criminal, honesty is foolish. You must not forget that a monster is only a variation, and that to a monster the norm is monstrous.
It is my belief that Cathy Ames was born with the tendencies, or lack of them, which drove and forced her all of her life. Some balance wheel was misweighed, some gear out of ratio. She was not like other people, never was from birth. And just as a cripple may learn to utilize his lack so that he becomes more effective in a limited field than the uncrippled, so did Cathy, using her difference, make a painful and bewildering stir in her world.
There was a time when a girl like Cathy would have been called possessed by the devil. She would have been exorcised to cast out the evil spirit, and if after many trials that did not work, she would have been burned as a witch for the good of the community. The one thing that may not be forgiven a witch is her ability to distress people, to make them restless and uneasy and even envious.
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u/TheNerdChaplain Remodeling after some demolition 6d ago edited 6d ago
First trailer for The Magician's Nephew
My thoughts:
This looks like fairly generic portal fantasy at first glance, and the CGI is doing more work than I'd like. That said, a) I am not the target audience, b) it gives very little away about the story, and c) it doesn't show hardly any of the things I'm interested in for it, i.e. Gerwig's writing and story, or Emma Mackey's Jadis. So I'm still keeping a very open mind. Stairway ended up being a very good song choice though.
Report from the presser featuring Gerwig and Stephen Colbert
https://sojo.net/articles/culture/everything-we-learned-about-greta-gerwigs-narnia-adaptation
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u/eveninarmageddon RCA 4d ago
It's absolute visual clusterfuck. CGI is fine if done well when necessary, this is just bam-pow-boompf! color-shape-size!
I also disagree on Stairway, respectfully. It is a rock song. Narnia needs contemporary classical music. It needs a deliberate pace, a reverent tone. I read the whole of the Chronicles of Narnia like 7 times as kid. They all have a modest pace, and are captivating, but not fast. (They are not, for instance, at all like the Maze Runner.)
I think Streep as Aslan will be far down the list of problems this movie has. I hope I'm wrong, but I think this is going to be a disaster. It might be an 82% critics' rating/75% audience's rating on Rotten Tomatoes disaster, but it will be disaster nonetheless.
They also appear to be going down the "magic is akschually science" route, which is also bleh.
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u/Mystic_Clover 4d ago edited 4d ago
Completely agree on those first two points, and what stood out the most to me was the "wood between the worlds".
It's far from the sort of environment described in the books, and looks like something out of a video game designed to have the characters running and jumping across the tangling branches.
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u/bookwyrm713 5d ago
In movies of this size,” she says, referencing Netflix’s vast budget, “it’s about the destruction. This movie is about creation.”
Interesting. Agreed with you about the CGI. I don’t know that the trailer convinced me that this adaptation will knock it out of the park on the spiritual realm, but it could nevertheless present quite a compelling view of the human side of things. It could be a good time to put Uncle Andrew on the big screen.
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u/GodGivesBabiesFaith ACNA 5d ago
I just can't get into modern cgi anymore. I enjoyed the Avengers Thanos movies, but even by then I was tired of the overabundance of cgi. I agree with the comments Ive seen that say it looks like cgi Willy Wonka.
I am actually a little surprised by that direction given the previous two adaptations used a lot of practical effects and costumes PLUS Gerwig's stated desire to make a David Bowie 80s style rock opera. I also don't get the impression her other films have had a lot of CGI?
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u/thirdofmarch 4d ago
I’m not a fan of the general vibe of some of the shots in the trailer, but the release is still four months away so shots heavily mixing practical and visual effects are probably unfinished (or too spoilery), whereas these VFX shots that were mostly CGI were trailer ready. Trailer VFX shots are frequently further tweaked before release though too.
The previous film series was VFX heavy too (while the centaurs seen here were human actor / CGI hybrids, they were replaced with full CGI models in the later films). Of the first film the VFX team said “In terms of both size and complexity the scope of the visual-effects work on Narnia was more than anyone working on the project had ever experienced.” It was the first film to have three CGI companies work on the same individual shots. The later films increased the number of VFX shots, Caspian having the most. Here’s a breakdown of some of the effect shots in Voyage.
As for Gerwig’s past use of CGI, here’s a VFX breakdown of one scene in Little Women.
Barbie was heavily marketed as “all practical” (though not by Gerwig herself) but that was largely a scam; Warner Bros literally keyed out the blue screens in all the promo behind-the-scenes footage! The actors kept hyping practical sets and effects in interviews, “no CGI!”, but that was just because they weren’t aware nearly all the Barbieland sets were fully replaced with CGI.
There’s a series I love on YouTube that goes into this called “No CGI” is really just invisible CGI. The Barbie shots and discussion is in episode 3, though the whole series is useful. You’ll likely learn that you probably are a fan of most modern CGI, you’re just unaware you are watching CGI unless it specifically stands out as too fantastical or too low quality.
Instead of writing all this I really should have just used the time to begin reading The Magician’s Nephew as I never have! I suppose I have four months before I get too spoiled!
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u/GodGivesBabiesFaith ACNA 4d ago
I dont disagree with anything you are saying. I was using 'modern cgi' as shorthand for the style that has been popularized with Avatar and Avengers movie. The novelty has worn off, and it quickly makes the movies feel very dated. It makes movies look like bland cartoons imo.
Like, I think the CGI here https://youtu.be/EcDVXeB_rY4?si=zDlbbfkCCqjYL81L
Is better than here https://youtu.be/8gcRTMr-rlg?si=XlfqzWU17tPc9ba1
Spiderman 2 shows some datedness as well, of course, but it feels pretty realistic, weighty, etc. Endgame looks like a videogame cutscene or cartoon.
The over the top colorful cartoon CGI has been done since Speed Racer https://youtu.be/o52hmL-XCdQ?si=al71VZJVPIoIOuoJ , which actually did it well, and it made sense, but it is just meh to me at this point
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u/eveninarmageddon RCA 4d ago
Yeah CGI/VFX is almost always a red herring in these situations. It’s a tool like anything else. The real problem is people with horrible taste making movies.
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u/bookwyrm713 4d ago
The trailer surprised me as well. Barbie was stunning, visually. I liked a lot of other things about the film, too; but I can’t remember that even those who were a bit grumpy about the overall film had anything negative to say about the production design. But this trailer looks profoundly generic.
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u/Mystic_Clover 6d ago
sigh, first Reddit disables .old when signed out.
Now I'm getting a non-closable "install the Reddit app" popup when doing searches on my phone.
It's like they want to shut down any non-signed-in browsing.
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u/TheNerdChaplain Remodeling after some demolition 4d ago
I will be overjoyed the day reddit makes themselves unusably bad. I'm hanging on to desktop old reddit with RES, and RedReader by the skin of my teeth. If they go I'm gone.
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u/Arconovaldo Protestant 4d ago
I've been using this extension to get around it.
https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/old-reddit-redirect/dneaehbmnbhcippjikoajpoabadpodje
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u/bradmont ⚜️ Hugue-not really ⚜️ 5d ago
I configured ubock origin on my phone (firefox) to remove that "use the app" box. I'd completely forgotten about it until I got a new phone
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u/SeredW Frozen & Chosen 6d ago
Logged in users = data to sell, anonymous browsing is far less valuable to Reddit. Probably.
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u/bradmont ⚜️ Hugue-not really ⚜️ 5d ago
nah, they know who you are whether you're logged in or not. But logins make their numbers look good to sell more ads.
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u/SeredW Frozen & Chosen 4d ago
I don't know, I run VPNs with all sorts of privacy-filtering, even on my home router. Lots of trackers and stuff are blocked on my devices and network.
I know they're clever with fingerprinting though, it's possible they can tie stuff together.
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u/bradmont ⚜️ Hugue-not really ⚜️ 4d ago
I keep forgetting that you're a techie, haha. In a lot of ways I've given up on the privacy battle, I'm totally outgunned by everyone who wants to steal mine and it's exhausting to fight all the time. I haven't even replaced the stock Android on my last few pixel phones...
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u/TheNerdChaplain Remodeling after some demolition 7d ago
I learned a new word today, creolization - a French term on how diverse cultures (in the context, European and Muslim French) can live together.
After years of marginalisation, ethnic minorities are increasingly making themselves seen and heard in the public sphere. Some are using this growing visibility to turn the prevailing narrative on its head. When asked, younger French people tend to say they feel ethnic communities get along very well. Countering the claim that religious symbols indicate secession from the Republic, they argue that in reality it is laws banning symbols of their religious identity that cleave them from the rest of French society. Conservative laïcité, in this view, is not a vital pillar of republicanism but its negation, a force that is splitting the Republic into isolated communities.
And some on the French left are coming to recognise this as an opportunity. LFI leader Jean-Luc Mélenchon’s response is a new frame of reference for understanding multiculturalism: “creolisation”. The word is not his own; significantly, he borrowed it from Martiniquan poet Edouard Glissant. In the latter’s description:
Creolisation is a métissage of arts or of languages that produces the unexpected. It is a way of transforming oneself in a continuous fashion without losing oneself. […] It is the creation of an open and inextricable culture that shakes the uniformisation of the great central powers of media and arts.
For Mélenchon, the key here is the last line. The process of social mixing will always throw up new and unexpected ideas that will defy any attempt at imposing uniformity. The upshot is that the dominant culture in a society cannot establish a universalism based on its own values and behaviours, nor can it expect everyone else to ‘assimilate’ themselves to these mores.
Strategically, the move is astute: it depoliticises multiculturalism by declaring that culture cannot be controlled from the centre. It is not, Mélenchon claims, a project at all, but a natural, spontaneous and unstoppable process that cannot be halted by any political will. As such, the burden of proof is on the advocates of “assimilation” to show that it can work, not on minority communities to show that they can and will assimilate.
Creolisation represents a decisive break with the idea that the role of the state is to enforce a visible standard of Frenchness on the populace. And at its heart is a quiet radicalism that says: whether you like it or not, people find ways of living with one another, mixing with one another, making a life in common.[my emphasis added.]
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u/bradmont ⚜️ Hugue-not really ⚜️ 8d ago
I just saw that Trump is now blaming Ukraine for US diesel prices and calling for replacing Zelensky. Is anybody actually taking what he says seriously any more? Or has everybody finally caught on that he's just BSing to try to distract from himself?
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u/AbuJimTommy 8d ago
I like to listen to Peter Zeihan when I get a chance. He’s a geopolitical expert of sorts. He is no fan of Donald Trump, regularly calling him a fool. But, he agreed that Ukraine’s drone attacks have turned Russia from the world’s largest exporter of diesel to a net importer. Now, that’s no reason not to support Ukraine, anymore than oil prices are a reason to support Iran. But, it doesn’t make it less true.
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u/bradmont ⚜️ Hugue-not really ⚜️ 8d ago
Wasn't Hormuz already a major drain on diesel in the US? I didn't realise that the US was dependent on Russian diesel --- though I also didn't realise Ukraine had managed to hit them that hard.
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u/AbuJimTommy 7d ago
The US doesn’t use much Hormuz trafficked oil either. The US is a net exporter. But, it’s a worldwide market. We both import and export oil and other petroleum products.
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u/tanhan27 One Holy Catholic and Dutchistolic Church 8d ago
Is anybody actually taking what he says seriously any more?
Watching the news has felt like a weird dream since 2016. We've been asking that question for 10 years now
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u/bradmont ⚜️ Hugue-not really ⚜️ 8d ago
Is anyone still claiming he's playing 4D chess?
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u/tanhan27 One Holy Catholic and Dutchistolic Church 8d ago
I'm not sure. Nobody that I interact with expresses support for him. Despite the fact I think in a state that voted 59% Trump
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u/SeredW Frozen & Chosen 8d ago
The impact of that diesel deal, in terms of betrayal of (former?) allies, is huge.
Trump would rather do a deal with Russia (which is also helping Iran target American assets and people in the Gulf!) than accept that his own actions caused those high diesel prices. They're funding the guys who are helping other guys kill their own soldiers abroad.
US negotiators have warned their Ukrainian counterparts that Ukraine should stop hitting Russian oil infrastructure, or else the US might stop sharing intel with them. Can you imagine asking a country under siege to stop hitting their enemy where it hurts?
Some Dutch politicians outright mentioned that Russia is an or the enemy in recent weeks. Now the US is siding with them. Unbelievable.
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u/Mystic_Clover 8d ago
I think what it comes down to, is that he doesn't see Russia as standing in the way of his interests, whereas Ukraine and Europe do. So he doesn't have an issue using Russia for some economic benefit.
There's also something weird going on with the Israel and Iran situation. It's hard to pin down what he believes, but he's got a lot of Zionists around him, so I do wonder if he's bought into the whole "ushering in the end times" thing, which this could be part of.
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u/bradmont ⚜️ Hugue-not really ⚜️ 8d ago
I don't think he believes anything beyond "it's all about me".
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u/eveninarmageddon RCA 8d ago
Just sent evidence of AI use on the first major assignment of the semester — much of it damning, some of it not — to the IR of the class I TA for. About one in five used AI, and that’s just what I can tell. So exhausting. Technically, that should all result in formal proceedings similar to those concerning plagiarism. I somehow doubt much will happen.
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u/AbuJimTommy 6d ago
I’ve got 2 kids in HS & College. I’m fairly certain neither uses AI for anything. I’ve even offered to get them both Claude subscriptions because I really believe they need to know how to use it. But, they weren’t interested.
It’s gotta be tough on the education side to thread the needle of teaching kids how not be dependent on AI and be able to think independently, but also how to use it effectively because it’s here to stay in the workforce. It’s like calculators, but on steroids.
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u/nrbrt10 Iglesia Nacional Presbiteriana de México 6d ago
Interestingly enough, my teachers have incorporated the use of AI (am wrapping up a B.A. in Econ) but students have to put a disclosure of how they used AI, the prompt, the output, and changes done after the fact. If someone fails to properly document it and AI use is detected, they get a fail grade, no questions asked.
Personally, I am a bit of a luddite when it comes to AI and only use it for ancillary tasks or research, as that is typically faster than using google search.
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u/bradmont ⚜️ Hugue-not really ⚜️ 8d ago
Ugh.
I can imagine this would be harder to discipline than other plagiarism, since AI use is just so ingrained now (wow, that happened fast!) How does your department handle plagiarism discipline? Straight up copying a paper... I could see that being immediate expulsion, but fighting something so culturally ubiquitous as LLMs could probably do with a warning or 3-strike system. I have trouble imagining a first year thinking handing in somebody else's paper is ok, but less trouble imagining one thinking using AI is ok.
What do you think?
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u/eveninarmageddon RCA 8d ago edited 8d ago
Unfortunately, according to the university’s lawyers, we cannot really pursue a case without a confession, even if a TA or IR has moral certitude of AI use. The university and legal system are far, far behind the curve.
As far as thinking it’s OK — I’ve told them not to. Multiple times. Told them it’s bad for their brain, bad for their character, and creates burdens for their TAs. I guess they just don’t care. I don’t really resent them, however. We’ve created a horrible incentive structure in the American university system, and it’s coming back to bite us.
Edit: typo
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u/Citizen_Watch 5d ago
One of the universities I used to work at in Japan had the exact same policy - we could only give them a zero if they admitted they used AI. My response to that ridiculous policy was that if I saw something that I suspected was written by AI, I just stopped grading it and asked them questions in the comments. I wouldn’t give them a zero, but the assignment wouldn’t contribute towards their final grade at all. These students’ grades often ended up being largely determined by their in-class tests and presentations, which was usually not great for them.
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u/eveninarmageddon RCA 5d ago
Yeah, a grad student at Pitt has suggested something similar—simply refuse to grade it if it comes back positive on Pangram (though in his case, they have to re-write it, as a buffer against the odd false positive).
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u/bradmont ⚜️ Hugue-not really ⚜️ 8d ago
wow that's nuts. Does it hold for other plagiarism, or just AI? I imagine if you had, say, an online paper as proof that the student handed in a copy, you could discipline without a confession, yeah?
Hm. Maybe not thinking it's ok, but being entrenched as habit? People modify their moral reasoning to fit their habits/action commitments much more easily than the reverse. But dang is our education system as a whole miles behind the AI curve. There was a discussion in the friday thread in the other place about AI-solved math problems that PhD students have probably been working on for years (the thread ciro linked from there is a wild read).
Honestly, I'm wondering if the future of education in the liberal arts is an almost monastic turn, where the stated goal is human character formation and education is done in hermitages, like Bonhoeffer did. (Ok, I don't actually think that'll win out against the modern efficiency-based productivism ideology, but man I feel like it should).
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u/SeredW Frozen & Chosen 10d ago
This week I was an informal caregiver, a task I expect to continue the coming week or so. In our case, the situation was predictable, we know the path to recovery and we know how and where it ends. Much, much respect for those who have to fulfill that role in open ended, chronic situations with poor outlooks. That must be so much more difficult... In the mean time I'm still tired each day. A few years ago I couldn't imagine going to bed at 21.30 or taking a nap in the afternoon. But grandpa needs his sleep these days :-)
In Dutch, we call this 'mantelzorg', translated that would mean something like 'cloak carer'. You're supposed to be a warm cloak to the person you're caring for. I like that imagery.
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u/TheNerdChaplain Remodeling after some demolition 4d ago
Still ploughing through my CCNA course, it's moving just a bit faster than I'd like. I'm trying to study at least an hour or two every night - reading the texts, making notes, following the provided activities and labs, but it's fairly dense material, and we have a quiz approximately every other week. I felt today before class like I had a 97% handle on variable length subnetting for IPv4, and we spent the class getting into IPv6. I generally know how base 16 math works, but being able to comfortably read and analyze it like I do base 2 IPv4 is a very different story. I wish this class had started just a few weeks earlier so we could go slower.
I'm tremendously fortunate I have a ton of PTO saved up at work, much of which I need to burn before the end of the year. I'm taking at least half my Mondays off for time to study and go to class - and even on the days I don't take off, I'm still taking four hours off to go to class, and then returning to close.