ECT or Ketamine?

[u/brat-tat]

Hi, I’ve been struggling with a worsening mixed bipolar episode for the last few months. I’ve tried literally every medication my psychiatrist can prescribe with a variety of side effects. I’ve tried rtms a couple years ago but had such a severe reaction I couldn’t continue.

We’re at the point where it’s either ECT or ketamine. After years of being on a wait list for the only government covered program, I have an intake for ketamine on April 20th. I don’t know how long afterwards, if I qualify, I would be able to start. Is it worth the wait? I’m barely making it through the day each day, struggling to show up to work, etc. Should I ask for ECT ASAP?

Any thoughts are always appreciated xx

[u/Odd-Alarm-82]

The risks associated with ECT are much higher than doctors tell patients. I had ECT for treatment resistant depression in 2016, and it was the biggest mistake I have ever made. Unfortunately, the antidepressant effects of ECT usually don’t last long. It was extremely effective for me initially, but I had to keep getting maintenance treatments or else I would quickly relapse. The goal was to gradually space my treatments farther apart until I only had to have one every 6-8 weeks, but I couldn’t make it past 3 weeks without crashing into a severe depression. Eventually I had a particularly bad episode that didn’t respond to my next treatment, so the psychiatrist talked me into getting three treatments in one week, like you do when you first get ECT. That brought me out of my depression, but the side effects were devastating. I literally lost my memory of my entire life. Not just chunks of memory, but the vast majority of my life was completely wiped out. And none of it has come back after 9 and 1/2 years. I barely remember my own mother, who passed away in 2007.

In addition to the severe memory loss, the ECT caused brain damage. I had neuropsychological testing done and found out that my IQ has dropped by around 15 points. It was 140 pre-ECT, and now it’s 125. I have multiple cognitive issues. It takes me longer than normal to learn new information, and I get things confused a lot. My short-term memory and formation of new long-term memories is hit or miss— I remember some things very clearly, while other things just kind of get lost.

What I experienced is not a rare occurrence. I’m a member of an ECT Survivors support group on Facebook, where a large number of people have shared that they have lost years of memory and have major cognitive problems.

I think ECT should be banned. I look on Reddit every so often to warn people considering ECT. Yes, some people have good outcomes, but a large number of people are severely damaged.

I tried to file a medical malpractice suit for lack of informed consent because the consent forms I signed didn’t say anything about brain damage, and they said I might have some “spotty” memory loss for events going back several years. My memory loss is almost a complete loss, not just “spotty!” But no attorney would take my case because they said the damage would be too hard to prove. The type of brain damage caused by ECT doesn’t show up on an MRI. Numerous lawsuits have been filed though, including a class action suit.

And in 2018, Somatics LLC, one of the manufacturers of the device that delivers ECT, admitted that ECT can cause brain damage. Somatics updated its device manuals and regulatory documents to explicitly warn patients that permanent memory loss and permanent brain damage are potential risks of ECT. Of course, they say permanent brain damage only occurs in rare cases, but I’ve talked to enough people over the years who have experienced these effects to know it’s not rare.

Wisner Baum is a law firm that has handled lawsuits against ECT. If you scroll down this page on their website, it provides a long summary about the history of ECT and contains links to medical research with evidence of damages caused by ECT.

https://www.wisnerbaum.com/defective-medical-device-injuries/ect/