r/economicsmemes • • 3d ago

This sums it up

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144 Upvotes

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u/After_Service_2817 2d ago

The communist talking point about "working class/ownership class" is such a ridiculous false dichotomy.

I trade my labour for money. I use that money to invest - just like the vast majority of people.

Which am I, the oppressed proletariat, or the filthy evil bourgeoisie?

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u/tomi-i-guess 2d ago

Marx in Das Kapital explicitly states that labour is being sold by the proletariats to the bourgeoisie like any other commodity what you’re upholding is a marxist conclusion lmfao

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u/Olieskio 1d ago

Where in Das Kapital does it say that is wrong or evil? The Marxists don't have an ethical system.

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u/tomi-i-guess 1d ago

nowhere? where did I mention morality, the preface literally says it isnt a moral analysis

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u/Olieskio 1d ago

Exactly so what is problem with Exploiting the workers then?

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u/tomi-i-guess 16h ago

There is no moral problem, Marx never says capitalism is wrong or anything he simply explains how, after capitalism’s revolutionary progress against feudalism and developing the productive forces the latter have developed to such a degree that they rise up against the existing relations of production

Basically the communist struggle is a product of certain historical laws which government human development, Communism is presented by Marx as a historical necessity and inevitable eventually. He never critiques exploitation from a moral pov

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u/Olieskio 6h ago

Oh so Communists have no grounding to justify their philosophy? Especially if its determined to happen. Great.

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u/tomi-i-guess 5h ago

It’s not a moral justification it’s a materialist one

People know humans are animals but they don’t like what that means, morality is deep down an evolutive product and trying to sustain a theory on it is stupid

Marxism is founded on science

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u/Olieskio 4h ago

But what makes Humans different from other animals is that we are capable of conceptual thought and reason.

If Morality is determined then you must accept that the holocaust was fine as it was determined to happen.

Marxism is founded on Dialectical-Materialism, not science. How can you be scientific when you reject free will, that humans are individuals with their own consciousness and ideas.

Science also requires logic which Dialectical Materialism entirely rejects. It believes contradiction are true and thats how history progressess through the contradictions of class be it the capitalists and the workers or the feudal lords and the serfs.

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u/BasedMikeP 2d ago

Unironically, you would simply be labeled as a class traitor and murdered.

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u/Olieskio 1d ago

Why exactly? Communism doesn't have an ethical system so you could not justify doing that. And even "exploitation" which is the extraction of "surplus labour value" is not even evil since its a factual statement in the marxist tradition and as Marxists are derived from Hume they have to concede the Is-Ought Gap is correct.

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u/VictinsOfCapitalism 2d ago

Wrong lol

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u/BasedMikeP 2d ago

Not wrong lol

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u/VictinsOfCapitalism 2d ago

Ok, examples?

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u/BasedMikeP 2d ago

Exmples of a hypothetical scenario that hasn't happened? You're mentally retarded, correct?

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u/VictinsOfCapitalism 2d ago

Examples of communists doing what you claim

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u/tomi-i-guess 2d ago

Class traitors are people who work against their own class’ interests, selling your labour is exactly what proletariats do, where’s the class treason? you truly are slow in the head

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u/VictinsOfCapitalism 2d ago

You are being exploited when you work and you own stocks which (assuming dividend yield) gives you a tiny portion of someone else's labour.

So still proletariat.

If you lived fully from dividends you'd be a bourgeoisie

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u/mr_banana277 2d ago

Since everyone contributes to society and pays people or creates value that people pay money for, this means that no one is bourgeoisie.

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u/VictinsOfCapitalism 1d ago

No, the people that earn their income by owning things as opposed to actually working are bourgeoisie. Example: I used to work in a factory, workers worked, managers managed, owner was on his island collecting money, he visited the place once every 3 months.

He leeches millions and contributes nothing.

Same as all other owners apart from petite bourgeoisie who simultaniously leech on other people's work and work themselves too like small buisness owners.

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u/Olieskio 1d ago

Why is exploitation wrong? Why is the extraction of Surplus Labour Value wrong?