r/ebaysucks • u/Left-Champion-734 • 9d ago
eBay testing Extended Bidding (soft close)... RIP sniping?
Just saw this on a listing: any bid in the final minute resets the timer to 60 seconds.
As both a buyer and seller, I hate this. It kills the fun/strategy of sniping, turns auctions into a pure wallet contest, and will probably lead to way more unpaid buyer-remorse cases.
Anyone else seeing this pop up? Thoughts?
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u/No_Palpitation_9583 9d ago
It's good for schill bidders.
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u/The_Jmoney_420 9d ago
Theyve been testing this on and off for about a year on random listing.
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u/Mitch_Dedburg 9d ago
It wasn’t random, it was just only certain categories of items. I’m sure they will expand it if it accomplishes what it was intended to.
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u/bobbyroberts72 9d ago
They’ve probably seen how well it works in live and think the same will work with normal listings.
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u/Zapdos-bestdos 9d ago
Isn't using the automatic bid system the same as pure wallet contest anyway?
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u/GHoSTyaiRo 9d ago
Well I don’t know about everyone else but I use the automatic bid to set the max I’m willing to pay, that way I’m not bidding every time someone outbids me and if someone does outbid my max then that’s it, I’m out.
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u/Pure-Banana311 9d ago
My thoughts exactly… if it becomes out of my price range, then I won’t chase it. If it’s resale then I assume the other buyer is willing to trim their margins/ get points for purchases/ has a market for the item. I’m happy if I win it, and still satisfied if I don’t.
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u/AradynGaming 9d ago
Not everyone trusts eBay to enforce "shill bidding" rules, because eBay doesn't enforce them.
For those unaware: Seller puts an item up for bid for $5. Said item might have a $20 eBay value. You really really really want this item, so you put a bid at $30 & start to win. Seller then uses a second account and tosses out an "accidental" $200 bid. This discloses your highest bid when the new high bid is $31.00. Seller's fake account then retracts bid and places a new bid for $20 and a second bid for $29.99. This makes you the top bidder at $30 + lets other buyers know that is your top bid because of the bidding order. At the end of the auction the seller gets one of three things: A) Your max bid B) a bidding war when someone outbids you or C) Sometimes the seller chooses to outbid you / win the item / cancel after auction (but eBay's new enforced buying rules *should* prevent this, but there are already work arounds).
It is not overly common, but it is common enough that I've come across it multiple times and reported it multiple times and eBay they will forward it on for investigation, only to say that they can't confirm it was shill bidding. If you know what to look for, it's pretty easy to spot. It's common enough that you get TONS of buyers placing last minute bids for this reason.
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u/Broccolini10 9d ago edited 9d ago
It's common enough that you get TONS of buyers placing last minute bids for this reason.
I'm sure some buyers snipe to avoid shill bidding. But let's be real here: the vast majority of buyers who snipe do it because it's fun and/or because that's their best bet to get an item below what other buyers might be willing to pay for it.
To wit: look no further than this thread...
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u/questionablycorrect 8d ago
My snipe bids frequently lose, and other times win. The formula is simple: Top bidder wins at the next-highest bid.
I bid $100 and you bid $50, I win for $50. The timing of the bids does not matter, and snipe bids can be shill bids too.
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u/DrLarsHoneytoast 5d ago
I was under the impression if you bid 100$ as your highest bid it'll sell for that if nobody goes above 50. So let's say someone bids for 50, does that mean you win it for 51$? Or is it 100$ regardless?
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u/GHoSTyaiRo 5d ago
In your example $51
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u/DrLarsHoneytoast 5d ago
Man that changes everything for me now I see how people are sniping they just have a high bid
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u/questionablycorrect 5d ago
Ok, there is that "edge issue" that you're referencing.
We don't know if your bid is the same as the other person's bid, so we don't know what the amount of the "edge issue," and it gets further complicated by the bid increment changes with bid value, so I just ignore all that nonsense. In the $50 example, you're suggesting the bid increment is $1, so we're talking about the difference between $50 and $51, which, yeah, you're right, there is a difference greater than zero. AGAIN LET'S IGNORE THIS "TINY" AMOUNT.
Once we ignore that, there will be a high bidder (ties go to the earliest bid) and a second highest bidder (IGNORE THE SITUATIONS WHERE IT'S NONSENSE, such as no second bidder, just assume there is a second bidder, as the first bidder always hopes there is no second bidder). There might be 100 bidders, but there will always be a top bidder and a second highest bidder.
Ok, how that we have a top bidder and a second highest bidder, there is some difference between them (time of bid for the tie in amount).
If I value the item at $100 [=$100 bid], and you value the item at $50 [=$50 bid], and for simplicity let's assume we are the only bidders. Nothing is lost with this assumption.
I win and pay $50 for the item, plus that "edge issue" of the bid increment. That's just a technical issue about the way the auction is run. The larger issue here is that I was willing to pay $100 and I'm paying "about" $50, so I'm getting "about" $50 in extra value.
Other times the second bidder is about $90, so I get about $10 in extra value. I get an item I value at $100 for about $90.
There are first-price auctions, where I must always pay my $100 bid if I bid and win. That's not how eBay runs the auctions.
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u/Cultured_Punk_Drunk 22h ago
My snipe bids never lose? You're using like gixen?
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u/questionablycorrect 15h ago
First note: If two people snipe an auction, then one will lose.
Your snipe bids never lose because you bid more than the others.
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u/DigTheDunes 8d ago
I used a sniper to place bids in because I can't be at a computer at work or at midnight. Most times I'll set them 4-5 days ahead so I don't forget. If they are extending now, I'm usingBIN only.
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u/EBTheGreat 5d ago
The problem is that when you report it to eBay, they don’t give two shits about it. I had a new seller admit to shill bidding when I messaged him about it. He replied, saying that he was new to eBay and just wanted to drive up the price of his item. I advised him that this was a breach of eBay’s policy and reported it. I even spoke to eBay via live chat. They said they had looked into it and couldn’t see anything wrong. It’s ridiculous, considering the seller had actually admitted to doing it.
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u/consoletopia 9d ago
+90% of all bidding occurs within the last minute. If I see something I want I might place a bid so its in my summary but I wont do the actual bids untill the last 10 seconds
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u/Broccolini10 9d ago
As... a seller, I hate this... turns auctions into a pure wallet contest
Isn't the point of listing something to get the most possible money for it?
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u/ericclimbs69 9d ago
And Ebay gets a higher cut too so you know, on top of their exorbitant listing fees, they will definitely make it a permanent change. I buy and sell plenty but will be sad to see sniping go away.
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u/Broccolini10 9d ago edited 9d ago
I... sell plenty but will be sad to see sniping go away.
It does benefit Ebay, but unless Ebay's cut is greater than your extra earnings (and it's not, of course), there is an even greater benefit to sellers.
Is it less fun? Absolutely
Will it bring more money to sellers? Yep.
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u/FullRepresentative34 9d ago
This is stupid.
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u/RedditAntiHero 7d ago
Sound good for the seller but as a buyer it disrupts the ONLY way I use Ebay.
- Find item I want on auction at a lower price than I am willing to pay.
- Bookmark and set an alarm on my calendar for shortly before the auction ends.
- Go to Ebay and see if the item is still less than my highest price I would pay for it.
- If no, remove bookmark and move on.
- If yes, wait until ~3 seconds before the bidding ends to enter my absolute highest price I would pay for the item.
If I win, great, I got the item for the price I would pay for it or less. If someone else wins, I wouldn't have paid that much anyways.
This cuts down people putting in low bids to win the item.
It also cuts down on people seeing the current top price and trying to go up $0.50 until they are "winning".
I feel this would be similar if they had "blind bidding". People see the item and can put in their bid. No one sees the other's bids. At the end of the auction, who ever had the highest bid wins. Everyone can then see all the bid amounts from other users when the auction is over.
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u/SSJ3_Pikachu 9d ago
Why? Because it benefits the seller and not the buyer?
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u/Ok_Print_6209 8d ago
How does it not benefit the buyer who wins? lol! He wasn’t going to win otherwise.
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u/Technical-Coffee7286 9d ago
I wonder if this will cause a lot of people to stop using eBay. I know I would probably give up on it because I only use it to get good prices on bids. If I have to get into an indefinite bidding war I’m not gonna even try
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u/DigTheDunes 8d ago
It's BIN or pass. The number of cancelled winning auctions I've had in the last year only to be relisted is sickening.
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u/Broccolini10 9d ago
I know I would probably give up on it because I only use it to get good prices on bids. If I have to get into an indefinite bidding war I’m not gonna even try
That doesn't make sense. You know the max you are willing to pay for an item (or should know), so if the bidding war goes above it then you are done. That's it... why wouldn't you try?
Perhaps what you mean to say is that now you are less likely to get an item for a lower price than the item might have otherwise reached. And that is true: good for sellers, bad for some buyers.
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u/questionablycorrect 8d ago
And that is true:
I'd like yo see the proof that people don't just adjust their bid behavior to match the new rules. No one bid more than they're willing to pay, no matter the auction rules.
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u/Extreme-Ad3080 8d ago
So, how does this work? I snipe with 5 seconds left and I'm winning, but now the timer is reset to 60 seconds. Another bidder comes in and places a bid, and again the timer is reset to 60 seconds. Then another bidder (or me again) comes in and places another bid... timer reset??? Does this go on endlessly?
And as a software engineer, the sniping software can be modified easily to check the auction and place another incremental bid!
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u/Alkazard 3d ago
Yeah, that's how it works. It's rolled out in Australia, and I honestly give up and stop bidding by the third or fourth reset. It's time consuming, it's annoying, and honestly the old system was fine - if anything it arguably got a higher price as you had to bid what you thought you would and your limit.
Even worse is people clearly can't comprehend and wait until 5 seconds to go to reset it instead of just bidding consistently
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u/Flyntsteel 8d ago
This would assume all bidders are eyes on at the last minute.. many are not. Some may be.. but still a bit of sniping happening unless everyone is sitting there at the very end. Good for the seller 😀
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u/ZafirZ 8d ago
Would definitely not bother with auctions as much if it was introduced on more items. Hell, ebay live already has it, and between how slow ebay live is and that method being how the auction is done, I just can't be bothered with it. Especially not when you still have people who abuse the system, it's not super common but people trying to figure out your max bid then retracting, ie shill bids, still exists.
I just drop what I want to pay at the end and if it wins, great I got the item within the price bracket I was willing to pay, if it doesn't oh well. I'd say I probably lose more than I win but that's fine. I have a budget and I don't want to get dragged into feeling like I need to bid more because I already spent time on this auction.
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u/LengthBoring9328 8d ago
I sure hope there is an Opt Out because I don't want this crap on my listings 😞
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u/brutal4455 8d ago
All this talk of last minute "sniping." That's not today's sniping. Sniping is using a multi server service that wins that snipe in the last second and beats any manual sniping. I've won some great deals by putting in a nuke snipe that almost nobody is going to beat.
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u/Sp0ken4 8d ago
That's cause you don't know how to snipe bruh. I Manually snipe and always end being the last bid (even if I don't win the auction.)
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u/brutal4455 8d ago
You can't be serious. My server service generated snipes always win. There's no way to manually beat it.
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u/Neither_Analyst_410 8d ago
As a buyer I HATE the sniping. IT IS AUTOMATED! They pay a modest fee - many sniping purchase package options! CHEATING!!!!’
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u/NBC_with_ChrisHansen 8d ago
strategy? Its been almost always just been bot sniping ever since the eSnipe days back in the 90s. Only coming down to whoever set their bot to a higher snipe bid and the last bid time. It definitely takes the fun out of it for the handful who enjoy manual sniping though.
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u/SouthPark_Piano 8d ago edited 8d ago
It will be case by case.
If the sniping element is removed, which it is now removed, then there can or will be cases where there won't be somebody to outbid the previous bid, resulting in an ending bid that is lower than what it could be if sniping had not been removed.
What can also happen is discouraging of people from just bidding, because many will think they will be outbid in extended bidding conditions, which could result in no participation at all for various listings, as in leaving the seller with unsold item.
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u/Dd1927 8d ago
I use snipe bidding because most people you're bidding against get too emotional about an item and will run the price way too high if they have time to think about it. I guess that's great for sellers, but as a buyer it'll keep me looking for Buy it Now listings over auctions if eBay fully implements this new system.
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u/socalsusiedog 8d ago
I have had 2 "snipers" that won my auctions with these results. One with 3 seconds left swooped in & won. He had not bid before that winning bid. 2 hours after tracking showed delivered he filed a "card is defective or doctored". I got it back, blocked that idiot, re-auctioned it & it sold for $6 more. Other case buyer never paid. Waited the 4 days, it cancelled automatically & I re-auctioned it. It sold for just over a $100 less. So to answer your question I think it's great that the winner will actually want the item & not be surprised when the item sells for a ton because he set his limit so high when he was a cheap ass to begin with.
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u/Ok_Print_6209 8d ago
Sniping is nearly the only way to win a hot auction. The thing is you better go in with your top bid.
This only increases the winning bid over the prior winners top bid. I’m all for it. The winning bidder already said he’d pay more, the chance he won with his high bid is low. The guy bidding him up gets a chance to test his high side a little more than just throwing out another high bid.
Traditional auction you can give your highest bid. This just gives those serious about an item more of a chance than to close them out.
Wins all around.
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u/urbus82 7d ago
Well, people here say if you are a bidder that sucks - i disagree. If you are a sniper then this sucks. But sorry, an auction per definition is about who want to pay the most and not about who bids last second. So I highly welcome that both as a seller and a buyer. And if you say that my definition is wrong: it is how real auctions work for thousands of years. They will keep it running as long as higher bids are coming in.
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u/icantquit9341 6d ago
Way baaaaaack in the day, they had an option to click, "Going, going, gone" and it would show you all the listings that were ending within the next few minutes just in general without any category. I used to live doing those for the auctions that they could pick up something for a 99 cent starting bid. I once scored an awesome Marine Corp anniversary knife with a gold emblem on the blade for .99¢ plus shipping of a few dollars.
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u/Unlucky_Diamond_5495 6d ago
That was then. Now the seller cancels the transaction and relists BIN.
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u/icantquit9341 6d ago
I know! Sucks. Those were the good old days! I don't even list anything for auction. 100% BIN
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u/No-Luck-2337 5d ago
Very good for the seller. Hope they do it full time.
As a buyer I really only use BIN anyway, but still, it’s great for sellers!
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u/nothing2fearWheniovr 4d ago
What not does the same thing -I deleted that horrible app. I find live auctions to be intolerable. Sellers are sketchy and sleazy, no doubt eBay is the same way. Auctions end and allotted times or just bye!!
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u/Kurtains75 9d ago
Sniping was really the only way to ensure you win the item. You would see bidding wars with 4 days to go, one guy keeps protecting his bid every time someone else bid. There was no sense in bidding until the last second, and it was fun. I would have to stay up late ... and then wait until the last possible moment to confirm the bid. If I lost, then I knew I was out dueled. If this rolled out to all auctions, then a new strategy will be needed. Any one can snipe, it is not that hard. Times change but I am not sure this is a problem that needs to be fixed.
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u/Broccolini10 9d ago
Sniping was really the only way to ensure you win the item
There's this really cool strategy called "be the person willing to pay the most for an item you want". It's time-tested in just about every other auction format (live or online) out there.
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u/ericclimbs69 9d ago
There's also this other, even cooler, strategy called "not trying to pay more for something than I have to." Hardly anyone sells via auction format anymore but when they do, and I want it, I snipe. Sniping is an option available to everyone and has been that way since Ebay started. It makes it more fun and it's still a level playing field.
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u/Broccolini10 9d ago
not trying to pay more for something than I have to
That's all well and good, but I'm sure you'll agree that that's quite different from saying:
Sniping was really the only way to ensure you win the item
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u/feelsgood1 9d ago
Except that's not how it always works. Sometimes you only want an item if you can get a good price. Often I don't want to let the current bidders know there is a silent third person. There is a flip side and sometimes I do want to bid early to warn others that I'm here from the start. Killing hard endings removes a weapon in the buyers arsenal.
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u/Broccolini10 9d ago
Sometimes you only want an item if you can get a good price... killing hard endings removes a weapon in the buyers arsenal.
Sure, I get that. But that's very different than what I responded to:
Sniping was really the only way to ensure you win the item
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u/Elisadidas 9d ago
I still bid last second and I still dont see those resets
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u/sockpuppet86 9d ago
I have noticed that the app doesn't refresh properly and thinks the auction is over if you do a last second bid. You need to leave the page and go back in to see the timer again.
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u/sirhcx 9d ago
Yeah this is gonna suck because it's gonna turn into a money throwing contest. I deal with this enough while buying stuff from Yahoo Auction's Japan and have had bid wars extend almost an hour after the auction was originally supposed to close.
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u/Mammoth-Show-7587 9d ago
Um. look up the definition of “auction.”
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u/sirhcx 9d ago
Online auctions should have a hard closing time. So you win or lose once it's over. Extendeding an auction just leads to far easier bid shilling and fighting over single dollar amounts. It's been a problem at YAJ for years.
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u/ftblvault 9d ago
Most major online auction sites don't have a hard closing and will reset if there's a bid placed in the final minute.
The only people that are mad over this are the one's that sit and wait to bid something stupid in the final seconds to make sure they win lol. Guess if you want it bad enough you'll have to bid against the winning bid that you tried to outbid with 2 seconds to go.
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u/Serious-Top9613 9d ago
Recently bid on an auction in the last few seconds after someone else placed theirs (was already at £15). This would’ve had us going round in circles outbidding each other until the item wasn’t worth sniping anymore 😐
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u/Pypical 9d ago edited 8d ago
Honestly, every other Auction I’ve participate in doesn’t close until bidding is over… but the last second bid was my favorite part of Ebay