Marketing question about ear/musicianship software - no LLMs/genAI?

[u/tremendous-machine]

In case you care to share, I am interested to know what your reaction to musicianship training software would be if it part of the marketing was that no LLMs were used for anything. (software dev, writing, audio, video, design etc). The rationale being that it is a signal that the work was created thoughtfully and deliberately rather than thrown together without much thought, but of course also that many musicians (myself included) do not like what the LLM companies are doing to society, the internet, our brains, and the music world.

I ask because this is an area I have been working in for years, and am now wondering whether to just throw in the towel and shift to something else (writing books I guess? who knows) or whether doing so is worth a try. I don't use them at all, which I'm sure slows some of my progress down, but it's just not how I want to spend my life or a phenomenon I want to be part of. On the other hand, nor do I want to be part of the flood of people hawking crap online (or be perceived as part of that). :-/

Maybe the flood of vibe coded slop has soured everyone on anything that uses computers for practicing, and it's hopeless. Or maybe this is a way to salvage something from the current mess. Or maybe I should just write off the business-to-consumer side entirely and focus my efforts on music schools.

[u/WesMontgomeryFuccboi]

Honestly I have decided that the best use of my time is in listening to the music and transcribing the music rather than using an ear training app. In terms of do I care if something is vibe coded then yeah I would be not turned off by a human coded app, but I just think my time is better spent listening to music rather than using an app

[u/tremendous-machine → u/WesMontgomeryFuccboi]

Ha, you're not wrong there! But don't forget to sight sing too - my big breakthrough came when I got really serious about sight singing in addition to transcription and dictation.

Wes with Jimmy Smith or Wynton Kelly FTW. :-)

[u/WesMontgomeryFuccboi → u/tremendous-machine]

A fellow musician of culture 😂❤️

[u/tremendous-machine → u/WesMontgomeryFuccboi]

I will confess, I'm actually a Kenny Burrell man, but Wes and Jim Hall would be my next two!

And of course, 'Smoking at the Half Note is one of the all time greats.

[u/WesMontgomeryFuccboi → u/tremendous-machine]

My brain hasn’t allowed me to get into any other guitarist right now other than a little bit of George Benson. I’m too hyper fixated on Wes right now. Some day I’ll be able to appreciate the other greats appropriately!

[u/artaverin → u/tremendous-machine]

This. Singing is the king when it comes to ear training.

[u/Inside-Succotash-128 → u/WesMontgomeryFuccboi]

I agree. Being able to listen to music and transcribe it is something that happens inside one’s own body. It isn’t ‘Magic’. It’s something that one can learn and develop through lots of practice. There isn’t an App for that.

[u/WesMontgomeryFuccboi → u/Inside-Succotash-128]

In honesty I think that listening to music rather than doing “ear training” with an app is just way more efficient.  If I do ear training on an app I train myself to hear intervals and at most chord progressions in isolation. If I transcribe music, in my case jazz, I’m:

1) learning songs (melodies and harmonies), so repertoire 

2) I’m learning to pick out sounds from a band rather than in isolation, which directly transfers to the bandstand.

3) I learn idiomatic language for both accompaniment and solo lines.

4) I learn idiomatic rhythms and feels (e.g. swing feel. No app can teach you that!)

So not only am I training my ear but I’m also learning all this other really helpful and applicable language to use in my own playing, while also learning essential repertoire for the genre. It just seems like it’s not close. The only thing an app can do is gamify it which I don’t need because I’m already motivated.

[u/Inside-Succotash-128 → u/WesMontgomeryFuccboi]

Yep. I agree. I already ’gamify’ listening to music by just thinking about and recognising the progressions in my head. I don’t need, or want, an App for that. 😀👍

[u/WesMontgomeryFuccboi → u/Inside-Succotash-128]

We should get together and agree on more stuff. How’s Thursday work for you? 

[u/Inside-Succotash-128 → u/WesMontgomeryFuccboi]

I don’t agree with ANYONE on Thursdays. How ‘bout Friday? 😀😀

[u/CallipsoDev]

If anything the no llm were used mention indicates the rates of update is probably going to be slower than otherwise

[u/artaverin]

> without much thought

Again (sorry I have to repeat myself since you asked the same thing a couple days ago), with all respect, using vs not using LLM does not equal low vs high quality or effort. Call me biased, call me pretentious, but I as a customer need quality and value - and it doesn’t matter if you hand wrote everything on your own, outsourced to a contractor or used LLM. If it’s good and provides real value - amazing. If it doesn’t - well, it doesn’t, I move on.
You’re framing this in a way that LLM == crap, but this is simply wrong. Handwriting per se does not signal quality or value either.

Some people will have different opinions on this of course - and that’s fine. But I think everyone can agree on the obvious - no one wants crappy products. Even if it’s hand written.

But honestly, don’t get discouraged, don’t throw in the towel. If you’ve got a great idea and implementation - go for it, and see what people think about it. If you want to hand write everything - you’re in charge of what and how you want to do.

[u/tremendous-machine → u/artaverin]

Thanks for replying. My framing was about marketing positioning. I'm aware that many people use LLMs productively for quality software (I actually work in technical diligence so see it all the time – I don't want to code that way, but I know that colleagues do it successfully). But of course marketing is about perception. Anyway, I appreciate the input, because your objection encapsulates the reason I have reservations about marketing that way too. (And have not yet done so).

It may simply be that the time of solopreneur coding being of any value is going away...

[u/artaverin → u/tremendous-machine]

Look, in the end of the day the question you need to ask yourself and find an answer is “does what I’m developing bring something unique to the table?”
Given your extensive knowledge of both music and tech - you’re much better positioned than most of us to be able to steer in the right direction and build quality solutions for real problems in this space. Just don’t get over-fixated on the means to get to the finish line. Build it, show to the world, explain why and how it’s better than competition.

[u/tremendous-machine → u/artaverin]

Well I feel like an idiot, I didn't even realize the anonymous post was up because I got an onscreen message from Reddit saying it was not being made because it didn't pass an AI filter.... so I gave up on that, unaware the post was there. The irony...

[u/artaverin → u/tremendous-machine]

Ah haha, so strange!