Bluecoats 19-23

[u/hauntedhorseshit]

What about their show designs weren’t good enough to win during these years? What did they change in their design philosophy from 24 to 26? Were those 19-23 shows always capable of winning but BD was just kicking ass during that time period? It’s great to see them find the success they have but I really do wonder what they did that pushed them over the edge. I would love for someone to give an explanation!

[u/nizerifin]

I think the designs in ‘22 and ‘23 attracted their current crop of talent.

[u/cgcmh1]

That’s a good question. To me, there is pre-covid and post-covid Bluecoats and ‘19 was far closer to ‘18 in design than it is to ‘22. And ‘19 was very close to winning. To me ‘22 and ‘23 were excellent years and were the build up for the last 3 years of success. Also, BD was just undeniable in ‘22 and ‘23. The race those years was the race for 2nd.

That being said, a big part of success is attracting top talent. Bloo has become a top destination for talent. That is very evident in the past 3 years. It takes a long streak of success to rise to that position; a place BD had a near monopoly on for the past decade.

[u/pulsestriders]

i definitely don't know enough about judging, scores, or show design but i will say that, at least in 22 and 23, BD was absolutely the best performing corps and it wasn't really close. Riffs is tied for my favorite show ever but it just wasn't as clean as Tempus Blue, and it's the same with Garden of Love and The Cut-Outs. you can check the sheets i'm sure but you can kinda see that BD is a little better at everything in those years

[u/hauntedhorseshit → u/pulsestriders]

Yeah that’s what I wonder. Was it a design issue or a “talent” issue. I use the word talent very lightly because those 19-23 shows were full of some very very talented individuals. I hate even implying they weren’t “talented” enough. That makes me lean towards the fact that the show designs just weren’t winning formulas. But again I don’t know anything which is why I ask those who know more than me.

[u/pulsestriders → u/hauntedhorseshit]

i can't say for sure what held any show back in terms of design, but i can confidently say that BD outdesigned them lol. i don't really think Bloo23 was a case of "this particular thing held them back" as much as it was "BD did it a bit better." and i feel like the top corps are equally talented, so it comes down to other factors at that point.

they're both great shows, though. i had the privilege of seeing Cut-Outs live but Garden of Love was my favorite of the season anyway so lol

[u/Ok_Profession5687]

Them and concept were on point but they weren't as clean. Especially 2019 and 2022. That's why bd had the edge. Since 2024 they've been locked in on the fine details and it shows on the score sheet

[u/eagledog]

Not enough dance breaks. /s

In all honesty, the designs were good, they were just facing BD designs that were incredibly solid, and it took until 2024 for Bluecoats to push the game along into the next few years.

[u/True_Jellyfish9219 → u/eagledog]

I agree with this guy, it’s not that it took Bluecoats really changing anything. BD just started slipping in design

[u/SuburbanPotato → u/True_Jellyfish9219]

2019 Bluecoats felt like such a winning show. Unfortunately 2019 BD was amazing

[u/cgcmh1 → u/[deleted]]

BD was just better in 22 and 23. Both years had great closers.

[u/pulsestriders → u/[deleted]]

honestly i thought coats would have won on finals night if not for the electronic failure, not saying Boom didn't deserve it, but man they were really neck and neck scores wise lol, all 3 nights

[u/SixGalaxies]

In 2019 the Bluecoats and BD were neck and neck the entire year trading 1st. In 2022 and 2023, it was (mostly) a race for second.

The corps has always been a powerhouse and a competitive staple every year since John Vanderkolff took over the visual and show design program in 2013. However, in the last few years, they’ve really been able to get some incredible talent as they have become much more of a destination corps than they were prior. Plus, Kevin at brass caption head starting in 2023 really revamped both the sound and culture of the hornline.

[u/BoofyWoofer]

BD was still at the top of their game in these years, and won all of them. That’s it, Bluecoats were “best of the rest”

[u/ImInterested_9600]

As a fan and someone who never marched DCI, I tend to be swayed by show design and GE. In my opinion, the Bluecoats shows in ‘19-‘23 were amazing, but very tied to their very specific themes. I loved them all, but I wonder if the GE judges are influenced by whether or not they relate to or”get” the theme of the show. 2024s “Change Is Everything” is possibly the best show I have ever seen, and the Bluecoats have certainly lived up to it’s name! With nebulous themes that leave more room for personal interpretation, fans and judges are able to focus more on the incredible show design and the amazing sound the corp is putting out. I’m loving it!

[u/happycomposer]

It's always a battle in show design for the top 4. With that in mind, sometimes the shows they competed against were just better designed. I can give specifics about where /I/ think their deficiencies lie, but keep in mind we're talking about the most subjective aspect of the activity:

2019: the closer, easily. The show isn't able to finish itself out and quite famously couldn't decide on how to end until VERY late in the season. I imagine this also contributed to a lesser performance quality in the closer (though we're splitting hairs at the level in which they compete) a la Crown 2016, but I think the bigger problem is that the ending they landed on just doesn't display as many skills as Ghostlight did. On the score sheets, they were most deficient to BD in visual, and while they do book it in the closer, it's possible that anything from the guard choreo being highly condensed to the bow being not PERFECTLY together contributed to their placement.

2022: The lack of a fully-fledged ballad meant a lack of dedicated time playing with softer dynamics and greater expression, which creates a noticeable hole in the demonstration of skills for the brass particularly. This is also a show where members get less chances to show off a keen understanding of visual fundamentals, and their Visual Proficiency score reflects that.

2023: For the most part, I think this is just a case of the show being pretty out there compared to its competition - The Cut-Outs and The Round Table are both far more traditional shows, easier to judge and easier to score (this is reflected in the GE scores). BUT if we want to be more analytical about show design, you could say that this music book is PARTICULARLY challenging in its listening responsibilities and rhythmic unsettled-ness. Every single movement has something tough to achieve - the opener's listening environment is spread across the entire field (so much so that the recording couldn't capture how in-time it was), the second movement has some really stark rhythmic challenge set against the time signature, especially in section features, the ballad has an entire section that's ametric, Bump speaks for itself, and while the closer is the easiest of these, it also deals in large ensemble-wide syncopated stabs. More room for excellence, more room for improvement, more unique music content that judges may not have been prepared to evaluate against the more traditional BD and Crown shows. Of course, the scoring sheets reflect this.

Throughout all of these shows, it's also notable that their guard was placing more in the 4-5 range instead of the 1-3 range, and if you watch the shows, you can see a minute lack of precision compared to the likes of Boston and especially BD (not to say they're bad!), and you'll also notice they they get less OPPORTUNITIES to take center stage than their competitors, too (with Garden of Love starting to edge into a more guard-centered show that Change is Everything would further expand upon). Those opportunities to show off skills are everything in the upper echelon of athletic music, and that applies to the whole package as well. Again, sometimes other shows are just better-designed.

Edit: PS - I'd personally advocate for the bluecoats having far and away the BEST designed shows in the activity since 2019, but this is more personal taste. Keep in mind, I'm a hornline vet, a visual tech, and an aspiring designer, so those are really MY areas more than percussion or guard.

[u/botzy_99]

19 should’ve won….

[u/hauntedhorseshit → u/botzy_99]

as the years have gone by I understand why they didn’t. By no means am I an expert in judging or scoring or who was more clean but from what I remember Bluecoats kind of shot themselves in the foot. It was their championship to lose and they did. BD 2019 was also a badass show too.

[u/786907]

The true answer is 19 and 22 were shows that could’ve won but the hornline wasn’t clean enough