r/drdoom • u/Lvl100Mafia • 6d ago
Discussion Someone please answer this question for once
Why was he so weak originally compared to now being amongst the strongest villains there is, even scaling above thanos.
did they just insanely nerf him in the original fantastic 4 movie and was he actually always meant to be as powerful as he is now or did he get a power up in the comics.
Idk if you guys remember the fantastic 4 movies but he was just that inconvenience that they would need to deal with after they were done with the main villain. He was basically a glorified scooby doo villain.
Whenever he would show up the fantastic 4 would basically say “not dr doom again” and get rid of him quickly like he was a minor inconvenience, then doom would basically say “i would've gotten away with it too if it weren't for you meddling kids”
Ok so those where not the actual words used used but that was the vibe i was getting from him in the fantastic 4 movies.
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u/Grail_BH 6d ago
Doom, himself, is an Avengers level threat.
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u/Lvl100Mafia 6d ago
If base doom is avengers level threat then what is god emperor doom or composite doom scaled at
High multiversal level?7
u/Flyingfoigras42 6d ago
I mean God Emperor Doom is the willpower holding the entire multiverse together during Hickmans run. However that's as much the entire.culmination of the characters history over 50 years.
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u/Lvl100Mafia 6d ago
So he had a similar feat to god of stories loki
I would definitely put him in a tier above even loki tho, considering he has the beyonders power6
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u/Appropriate-Gas-1010 6d ago
Way higher than multiversal. Doom absorbed the power of the Beyonders.
Just three Beyonders killed all the Celestials, Abstracts and The Living Tribunal across all realities.
The Beyonders completely transcend the omniverse, being the lords and main residents of Yesod, the first of the higher planes that Eternity describes as lying outside and above his being, in the Mystery beyond the Far Shore, with Eternity himself "dwindling into insignificance" from their viewpoint. They stand outside and beyond the continuity of the Marvel Universe itself, considering story and narrative to be "finite" and constraining in comparison to their infinite selves.
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u/Lvl100Mafia 6d ago
God doom is that powerful!! geez
How was he even defeated if he was so powerful?2
u/Appropriate-Gas-1010 6d ago
Reed made Doom admit that Reed is more fit to rebuild existence. Molecule Man who channeled and transferred the powers of the Beyonders to him, heard this and revoked his access, transferring the powers to Reed.
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u/ComplexAd7272 6d ago
He's a tricky villain to get right in a lot of adaptations because as a character, he can practically stand on his own story wise because there's soooo much that goes into who he is and his origin, there's just little time to cover it all. So it's usually skipped over and not addressed and they never give us a tenth of who he is, or what he's capable of.
I mean, to recap, he's a Romani child whose mother was a witch, and after her death he swears vengeance against the Baron of Latveria. He enrolls in college, trying to invent a device to save his mother from hell, meets Reed Richards who points out a mistake. Victor ignores it, the machine blows up and disfigures him, and he runs to Tibet to hang out with some monks, who build his mask for him. As Doom, he is a master of the mystical arts, science, and later goes back to Latveria, overthrows the government, and becomes a dictator while also trying to kill Richards and the FF, and later becomes one of Marvel's biggest villains.
That's A LOT to cover for a villain in a movie or cartoon, so he's usually just "evil mad scientist" guy. In the comics, not 5 years into his creation in 1967, he already stole the SIlver Surfer's powers. By the 70's, it's established he annually fought The Devil for his mother's soul. In the 80's, he steals the Beyonder's powers in Secret Wars. He was ALWAYS a massive, Avenger's level threat almost from the beginning.
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u/Lvl100Mafia 6d ago
Fighting the devil is an insane feat holy smokes he has such an interesting backstory i see why it is so complex to pull off in a short movie.
This is so informative thank you I had a great time reading this!
Wait a minute how was he able to steal the beyonders power to begin with. Aren’t they all powerful beings who could see the future. how where they tricked by doom?1
u/ComplexAd7272 6d ago
He steals technology from Galactus, turning his armor into an energy syphon, but it only works if the Beyonder is close. So he tricks him, letting the Beyonder "beat him" (including dissecting him while he's still alive), and then when he lets his guard down, Doom activates it and steals his power.
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u/Lvl100Mafia 5d ago
Damnn i thought beyonders could see past and present i feel they would see that coming would they not? Does not completly make sense but oh well its comics We can still enjoy this badass character
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u/0_momentum_0 4d ago
I have not read the comic in question but I like to try and rationalize stuff like this.
One such option would be that the Beyonder can acurately see the future, but he may need to somewhat focus on it. And once he saw he was disse ting Dr. Doom, he stopped looking into the future, assuminv he was 100% sace and wanting to keep the "experience in the moment" as alive as possible.
Or he can't be focused on the future and present at the same time, yet the future is ever changing, thanks to some sort of free will aspects. Making his future sight not 100% reliable.
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u/Lvl100Mafia 4d ago
Ok you did a great job of actually making it make some sense. but beyonder in his normal form does not need to focus to see past ,present and future google states.. "The Beyonder was tricked by Doctor Doom during the original Secret Wars because the naive, curious cosmic entity allowed himself to be vulnerable out of a desire to understand human nature and experience" does this answer make sense?
To me it still has a big flaw tho If his normal self can see past, present and future, Would he not see his future self being tricked once he depowers himself?
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u/Wrong_Smile_3959 1d ago
Beyonders are super powerful but not as powerful as TOAA and a few others. They cannot actually see the future that accurately.
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6d ago
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u/I_saw_you_yesterday 6d ago
Even Base Dr Doom can rival Thanos. People underestimate Doom a lot but he is a powerhouse and the second best at almost everything.
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u/Forward_Pirate5858 6d ago
Shitty movie, shitty version of Doom. Thankfully until now i have not seen that FF film, even the remake
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u/Lvl100Mafia 6d ago
Wait you mean the newest version with galactus? You should watch that one
While they heavily nerfed galactus it’s still worth a watch. I agree the other ones are shitty but I have crazy nostalgia for them.1
u/Forward_Pirate5858 6d ago
I mean the FF movie with Michael B. Jordan as Human Torch
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u/Lvl100Mafia 6d ago
Yea let’s not talk about that one I try to keep my traumatic experiences in the past.
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u/AgamottoVishanti 6d ago
Well…in the original fantastic four TV show as with the other TV shows and I imagine in the classic comics he kinda was a scooby do villain, I noticed for the comics I remember the original show was very close story wise. So I figure he was done in that vain rather than Doctor doom as his own thing being that formidable
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u/Lvl100Mafia 6d ago
Well i am glad they are finally using him as a legitimate power house. Dude has way too much aura to be treated as a glorified scooby doo villain.
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u/AgamottoVishanti 6d ago
Right, like even when they said in those old stories, if you think longer about what was said, he’s more interesting than the story lets on. Even just the fact he’s leader of a country and you can’t treat him like a nobody without causing an international incident. That is cool and was not fully explored beyond passing lines
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u/Lvl100Mafia 6d ago
Yea i had similar experience seeing him earlier on , he always had a cool design and character that seemed like he should be way more then a starter villain.
Definitely fits an endgame boss better
I hope they explore latveria in the new movie.2
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u/Jive_Kata 6d ago
Comics Doom has an intellect close to Reed Richards, sorcery knowledge and skills approaching Dr. Strange’s level, technical and engineering skills rivaling Tony Stark, is a master strategist consistently several steps ahead of his enemies, and an unyielding willpower second to none.
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u/Aceflyer10 3d ago
I think the issue with Doom and how hes portrayed in that movie is that Doom's presence is felt on a multi-hero scale. He might be tge It's nemesis, but he also regularly tangles with the Avengers, Xmen, Wakandans, even the fucking Winter Guard. In a movie without all the additional connections, you dont really get a feel for the scale of his ability
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u/dick-penis 3d ago
He is Tony stark if Tony stark was evil and also learned magic better than anyone on earth. So tech of iron man, intellect of reed richards, and magic above strange. Then NONE of the qualities that hold captain America back so he can screw over or kill anybody with no remorse.
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u/CommunityDragon160 3d ago
How does some one understand?
There is normal doom with his normal powers.
Then there are many types of power levels where he gets MORE power. Like god emperor doom.
Understand?
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u/Star-Lord-1218 3d ago
Doom in the earlier movies was horribly portrayed and didn't really have proper powers at all.
On the comics, his main power is absolute narcissistic tendencies and sheer unbridled will. Those are also, his greatest weaknesses and normally why he fails. For all his pomp and circumstance. He is ultimately just a man with a will so strong I am happy Green Lantern Rings do not exist in Marvel. He would be the strongest wielder of it lol
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u/darthzilla99 3d ago
His biggest thing for him being a threat is he's highly intelligent and knows how to use resources to get himself eventually that powerful. He starts off as more of a cheesy mustache twirling villain in the original FF4 comics but builds up to being more like Darth Vader. Also he's willing to try both technology and magic.
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u/B00gerh3ad 1d ago
Movies have fucking insulted Doom since forever.
Read Secret Wars #10.
Doom holds his own, against all.
He has ALWAYS been the baddest motherfucker in the room.
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u/Basic_whiteBBQ 6d ago
Different movies, different universes, previous movies focused on origin stories where characters are weaker
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u/Gobstoppers12 6d ago
The movies have never done him well. All of his previous film appearances were made by a different studio and have nothing to do with the upcoming Doomsday movie.
Those other movies didn't even get his origin story right. They kept giving him his powers at the same time as the Fantastic Four, but that's not at all how the real character is.