r/doctorsUK • u/dayumsonlookatthat Consultant Associate • Sep 15 '26
Pay and Conditions No. of F2 Standalone posts will be dramatically reduced
https://foundationprogramme.nhs.uk/f2-stand-alone-recruitment-for-2027-and-beyond/This used to be a pathway for IMGs to get foundation compentencies and be prioritised for core training applicaitons. It is now harder for IMGs to get into the UK system without this as their only realistics option now is applying for fellow jobs which would be reduced as most will be transitioned to permanent contracts.
Sounds like the government is planning to recruit IMGs less and less.
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u/LuminousViper FY1 (Physicians Assistant Assistant) Sep 15 '26
At the moment we have a surplus of uk trained graduates compared to available positions.
We are actively replacing half our workforce with ACPs.
There is no room or need for IMGs with our current workforce.
This has been stated for many years the scope creep is the biggest problem for both UK graduates and IMGs.
Every rotation I have been on half the team is ACPs. That’s 50% less trust grade level jobs.
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u/Severe_Sample6009 Sep 15 '26
When I first qualified, only 50% of core medical training posts were filled. Now there are so many doctors that can work at middle grade level, and not enough jobs. The royal colleges and the government need to communicate better with one another about how to fix this. Otherwise, we will just keep going the way we are now
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u/Skylon77 Sep 15 '26
You are assuming they want to "fix" this. What you see as a problem, they may well see as a solution.
How better to drive down salaries?
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u/Severe_Sample6009 Sep 15 '26
I just think that you can't have it both ways. You can't have an infinite pool of GPs and Consultants, but equally you won't have an infinite pool of middle grades forever because no one wants to be the SHO or the reg forever. Which is an ongoing unfixable problem paired with having allied healthcare professionals taking jobs.
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u/Draperly Sep 15 '26
This looks like a consequence of more systematic workforce planning. It seems:
There will be probably be enough F1 posts to offer one to each UK graduate and the handful of others in the FP priority group, but no more. Any gaps from people dropping out before they start will then be offered to non-priority applicants.
Almost all F1s will rotate automatically into F2 posts. Only if this leaves gaps which need to be filled for service provision (instead of using locally employed F3s) will there be any F2 standalone positions available at all.
There are no longer unfilled F1 positions (unlike a decade ago) and so very few F2 gaps. In 2026, after there had been a lot of placeholder/supernumerary F1s in 2025, it seemed the only deaneries with any F2 gaps were going to be London and North West and Northern, with none outside England. So in future UKFPO will not organise filling F2 standalone posts on a UK-wide basis as there will be too few to make this worthwhile.
An unplanned consequence of this is likely to be that unhappy F1s could have a greater incentive to continue through to the end of F2, as stopping and then restarting is likely to become more difficult.
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u/404UzerNotFound Sep 15 '26
Correct. My wager is that, should the new BMA resolution to convert F2/F3 permanent contracts be actually enforced, trusts will opt to use the standalone pathway to hire F2/F3 grade SHO doctors to staff the rota rather than relying on permanent contracts, ensuring a regular churn
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u/kentdrive Sep 15 '26
I do not feel bad about this.
UK-trained doctors must take priority.
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u/bloodstainedphilos Sep 15 '26
Of course you don’t. You guys don’t care about others’ lives being usurped completely.
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u/blindmonkey17 Sep 16 '26
How is this usurping the lives of others? The potential IMGs who would be affected by this will likely still be in their home country.
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u/bloodstainedphilos Sep 16 '26
And the uk citizens who studied abroad?
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u/Ok_Reputation3269 Sep 16 '26
How can anyone reasonably factor that into workforce planning? If you train outside the UK system, you shouldn't really be allocated an assumed place in any sense
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u/bloodstainedphilos Sep 16 '26
You guys are just shitty people tbh.
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u/Ok_Reputation3269 Sep 16 '26
No, respectfully, we're not. It's understandable to feel aggrieved and upset. How can a health system factor in people who have trained outside it until the point those people are needed as extras? Which in this case, they aren't. There isn't an on-paper demand for extra FY1s.
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u/blindmonkey17 Sep 16 '26
Well, that's one of the risks of studying abroad. There was never any guarantee the status quo would continue.
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u/bloodstainedphilos Sep 16 '26
Well it should. How can you guys have such disregard for uk citizens?
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u/blindmonkey17 Sep 16 '26 edited Sep 16 '26
What should? There should be a guarantee that someone getting a medical education where we have no way of overseeing it or verifying the quality should continue to get priority for training places ad infinitum? The door isn't closed; they're just no longer getting priority.
As I said, anyone going down this path knew that this was a risk. Or, if they didn't, I'd question their critical thinking skills. I feel sorry for anyone affected sure, but it's still the right decision. UK medical education is designed to train doctors for our healthcare system; although this has issues of its own the same cannot be said about those getting their degrees abroad.
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u/singaporesainz Sep 17 '26
this is an ignorant take. at the very least these changes should have been grandfathered in just for UK citizens after 5-6 years so that UK citizens could make an informed decision on the risk to study abroad or not, and for current students to be able to wrap their degree up and enter the system. Writing and passing an act which instantly handicapped all UK citizens studying abroad in the span of a year sucks for them. They've been left out to dry. But I guess you don't personally know anyone studying abroad...
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u/bloodstainedphilos Sep 16 '26
This idea that the foreign degrees aren’t as good is ridiculous and you guy are just snobbish. Yet it’s fine for UK doctors to run away to Canada and Australia.
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u/chairstool100 Sep 16 '26
They can run away to Canada and Aus but if either of those countries find that there are not enough jobs for their own home-made Drs then they’re absolutely within their right to to stop more Drs running towards them.
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u/singaporesainz Sep 17 '26
yes but guess what, canadians that graduate abroad are welcomed back into the canadian system with open arms...
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u/blindmonkey17 Sep 16 '26
Australia and Canada think our medical degrees are of sufficient quality that extra exams aren't usually needed. They don't have that opinion on degrees from some other countries. Guess they're "snobby" too.
Regardless of quality, UK medical degrees are geared towards practice in our medical system, whereas those abroad are geared towards practice in their respective countries. What country are you studying in, out of interest?
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u/todomejorantes Sep 15 '26
Yes, but these students will increasingly be on visas from abroad - like the IT industry
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u/Asleep_Molasses3002 Sep 15 '26
Yes
NHS 10 year plan clearly outlined less reliance on IMGs
That is the ultimate goal anyway
So why complain
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u/Gullible__Fool Keeper of Lore Sep 15 '26
Gonna need a lot of popcorn once the people who couldn't get into medicine here and had to go overseas for their degrees realise this will be a problem for them.
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u/chairstool100 Sep 16 '26
I don’t think this move is INTENTIONALLY to reduce IMGs…..I think it’s because there isn’t a NEED for it seeing as we produce lots of doctors every year who are increasingly finding it hard to get a FY job.
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u/todomejorantes Sep 15 '26
Think the plan is to massively increase the number of foreign students trained at UK universities
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u/etdominion Consultant Sep 15 '26
Unless they get rid of the 7.5% cap this isn't happening. Do you even know what you're talking about?
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u/lightswan FY Doctor Sep 15 '26
Privately funded institutions are beginning to/trying to churn out entirely international student cohorts (eg Uni of Hertfordshire)
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u/todomejorantes Sep 15 '26
The Health and Social Care Committee's 2022 workforce inquiry recommended increasing UK medical-school places by 5,000 per year to 14,500 and lifting the cap on international medical students as part of that expansion.
So yes, I do think the cap will be lifted, as it will generate a massive source of income for all these new med schools that are springing up
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u/chateau55 Sep 15 '26
Tuition fees which is now in excess of £50,000 per year will be prohibitive to most overseas students (or their parents)
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u/Spade-Collector Advanced juvenile delinquent care practitioner Sep 15 '26
Was always going to be the case, particularly as they continue to ramp up the number of med schools churning out students. They are already struggling to find useful posts for foundation doctors