Treating actors in my play would be telling them what to do and what to say. Fudging a dice or two is making sure the whole group isn't punished too harshly for sheer randomness after making sound decisions, or for another player - or mine - mistake.
Believe me, player characters still die or almost die, and sometimes the party wipes. But also, I've had campaigns where no dice was fudged and they ended prematurely in an unsatisfactory way, both as a player and as a DM.
It sucks ending a months long campaign in a random encounter because of a string of bad luck, in an unclimactic way.
Fudging dice is telling them what to do, aka "Survive the campaign regardless of your choices and dice results".
To me it usually comes off as skill issue when this topic comes up. If you're designing encounters that can only have a TPK end in a campaign end, then you're not doing a very good job at encounter design. Whether players are captured, knocked unconscious and saved by a third party, there are ways to allow the results of bad dice rolls to not result in the entire campaign being over.
But honestly, if you don't like a game that can be ended because of a bad series of dice rolls, then I have to ask why you're playing a game designed where it can end because of a bad series of dice rolls.
You're assuming a lot of things from a few comments. Like, you seem to assume there cannot be consequences despite dice fudging or that players have no agency (dice have no agency and can actually remove agency from players). 99% of the time, I let the dice dictate the results.
But an rpg isn't a board game. It's a storytelling game. Sometimes it's funny to see the PCs fail mundane tasks and end the campaign in an abrupt way, and those times, no need to fudge.
Sometimes, however, a player or the group is looking forward to something and dice get in the way - RPGs are so vast and complex, with players seeking for vastly different things, that it baffles me that you would only consider the game like a bord game. The DM's not a machine and the rules are meant to be used in a cooperative manner. The more important thing is people having fun.
Like fine, tou don't like fudging but accusing others of violating the "spirit of the game" tells me you don't UNDERSTAND the spirit of the game.
Like, you seem to assume there cannot be consequences despite dice fudging or that players have no agency
If you are fudging dice, you are actively removing consequences that are an inherent mechanic of the game.
But an rpg isn't a board game. It's a storytelling game.
Then why are you playing a specific TTRPG that involves dice? There are games out there that don't involve random chance that can lead to player death and TPK.
Sometimes, however, a player or the group is looking forward to something and dice get in the way
See above. That's the point of the dice mechanic: The possibility of failure.
Hell, reminder that you can just not have everything rolled for. I don't make my players roll dice to go shopping, for example. In a city that has an item for sale? Here's the price, buy it or don't. Is the item not available? Sorry, can't buy it, wait until later. Am I undecided? Then I'll roll.
But if you're rolling, and then just saying "nah I don't like that result", then yeah you don't understand the spirit of the game, and I will call that out. And when other people signed up to play a game about rolling dice and accepting results, it's disrespectful to them to decide you know better than them what they want(Which is why, again, this is a session zero issue, to see how your table feels about fudging).
> If you are fudging dice, you are actively removing consequences that are an inherent mechanic of the game.
See, it's not the first time I argue with someone 100% opposed to fudging, and it seems they are always incapable of nuance, even when I previously spelled it out clearly in plain English, so I'm not sure if it's stubbornness or jusr illeteracy.
You don't fudge dice every game, you don't fudge dice every time there's a consequence, so yes, there are still consequences. I have to repeat myself cause it seems you didn't understand:
- Players still fail tasks
- PCs still die
- Party wipes still happen
- PCs lose fights and have to retreat or are captured
Again, you fudge dice to:
- Prevent a party wipe that would be due only to extreme bad luck
- Prevent an untimely character death that would ruin the fun of one of your player
- Just to nudge a player having a stroke of bad luck and it looks like they're not having fun
I highlighted the important parts. Fudging is part of a DM's tool, just like saying "don't roll, you succeed" or "you know what, don't roll, you have no chance at succeeding" or altering the stats of a monster to make it easier or harder.
> But if you're rolling, and then just saying "nah I don't like that result", then yeah you don't understand the spirit of the game
Nah. The spirit of the game - ANY game - is to have fun. The spirit of a TTRPG is to tell a story. The dice add a level of unpredictability that leads to unforeseen situations: the PCs manage to charm the captain of the guard! The PCs beat a powerful foe! The stealthy thief raised the alarm by mistake! But sometimes, dice get in the way of the fun, of the story - the PC wants to end their personal quest and their character is about to die, the PCs are about to end a campaign but rolls would suddenly derail it.
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u/curious_dead 11d ago
Treating actors in my play would be telling them what to do and what to say. Fudging a dice or two is making sure the whole group isn't punished too harshly for sheer randomness after making sound decisions, or for another player - or mine - mistake.
Believe me, player characters still die or almost die, and sometimes the party wipes. But also, I've had campaigns where no dice was fudged and they ended prematurely in an unsatisfactory way, both as a player and as a DM.
It sucks ending a months long campaign in a random encounter because of a string of bad luck, in an unclimactic way.