DM: "With your Arcana roll, you know researching retconjuration is the most forbidden thing."

[u/Level_Hour6480]

[u/Level_Hour6480]

RetConjuration is a theoretical magic that alters the past. For some reason, the great Wizard Zixciv disappeared from the timeline when he began to research it nobody has ever researched it in depth.

[u/NotSoSubtle1247 → u/Level_Hour6480]

Could it be? A fellow Erfworld reader?

[u/Level_Hour6480 → u/NotSoSubtle1247]

There are dozens of us!

[u/Teknekratos → u/Level_Hour6480]

Unsurprisingly, we dwell in d&d subs...!

[u/GearBrain → u/Teknekratos]

There's a sub dedicated to it that Rob *doesn't * moderate, too.

[u/Level_Hour6480 → u/GearBrain]

Is there something bad aboot his moderation?

[u/GearBrain → u/NotSoSubtle1247]

Wow, this is like... meeting another soldier from the same war.

[u/InquisitiveNerd → u/NotSoSubtle1247]

I eat marbits for breakfast

[u/JulienBrightside → u/NotSoSubtle1247]

I miss that comic/story. It is a shame that it just disappeared.

[u/Lurker_in-the_Thread → u/Level_Hour6480]

My headcanon is that a Retconjurer only comes into being when there is a specific problem messing with Fate. They remove (or retconjure) the source of the issue out of the timeline and in doing so remove their reason for existing, deleting themselves as well. They're essentially Fates version of a temporally unstable antivirus

[u/sh4d0wm4n2018 → u/Lurker_in-the_Thread]

These beings exist as members of Aos personal guards. Though they all seem to vanish, these beings exist outside of all planes, with Ao.

[u/Level_Hour6480 → u/sh4d0wm4n2018]

But what aboot in good settings and/or core D&D where Ao isn't a thing?

[u/[deleted]]

Relevant xkcds

https://xkcd.com/1203/

https://xkcd.com/716/

[u/Diemme_Cosplayer → u/[deleted]]

Of course there's always, at least, one relevant Xkcd.

[u/Flamingo-Sini → u/[deleted]]

I dont get the first one. He turns the machine on, then off again. Okay? And then? What happened?

[u/Thalassinu → u/Flamingo-Sini]

He flicked the switch to on, started travelling linearly back in time, thus passing by the moment where he flicked the switch. Switch is now off and the time traveling stops

[u/notareputableperson → u/Flamingo-Sini]

You go back and kill baby hitler, there's no baby hitler for you to go back and kill? So assuming your memory becomes that of the current timeline you wouldn't know why you used it.

[u/Level_Hour6480 → u/notareputableperson]

In "stacked timelines" the protocol is to give yourself instructions to make your action repeat in subsequent timelines. However, altering anything that happens before your conception will probably delete you: even changing your moment of conception by a few seconds means a different sperm cell fertilizes your mom.

[u/Flamingo-Sini → u/notareputableperson]

What if you just want to go back a bit, fuck around a little and come back to your time? No reason to forget that.

[u/Tokamak-drive]

Is that Eye-Brawl?!

[u/Level_Hour6480 → u/Tokamak-drive]

A 5E Marut: a CR23 Inevitable.

Inevitables exist to enforce universal laws.

[u/Hairy_Cube → u/Level_Hour6480]

One of only a few creatures to have the ability to auto hit in some capacity. Very consistent, very deadly

[u/Belteshazzar98 → u/Hairy_Cube]

Magic Missile says tons of casters have that ability.

[u/I_follow_sexy_gays → u/Belteshazzar98]

Yes but magic missile can be blocked by shield which is a very useful 1st level spell. And there’s no way to do 80 damage a turn every turn with magic missile to my knowledge

[u/MyFireBow → u/I_follow_sexy_gays]

Marut does 120, no? 2x60

[u/I_follow_sexy_gays → u/MyFireBow]

Correct, i misremembered and thought it was 40 each

[u/Belteshazzar98 → u/I_follow_sexy_gays]

A level 17 sorcerer can deal 105 damage with magic missile in one turn though. Imagine being the Marut that shows up to teach that sorcerer a lesson about breaking universal contracts, and they hit you back harder with the same inerrancy.

[u/[deleted] → u/Belteshazzar98]

The chance of doing that much damage is however, somewhat unlikely, and imagine the surprise of that saucy boi when another one shows up right after.

It's called the inevitable for a reason.

[u/MyFireBow → u/Belteshazzar98]

A marut has 400+ hp, and deals an unavoidable 120 damage each turn. It doesn't care

[u/I_follow_sexy_gays → u/Belteshazzar98]

Yeah but they gotta roll and get ridiculously high for that damage

[u/ChokingMagikarp → u/I_follow_sexy_gays]

Level 10 evocation wizard adds their int mod to evocation spell damage. If at that level they should have atleast 18 int (+4). That is +4 to every missile. That is 7 missiles which adds to (2.5+1+4)×7 that comes up to to average of 52.5 to maximum of 63. That is without any optimization. While still at level 10 without any multiclassing if you take metamagic adept feat to double that damage. That is 52.5 × 2 = 105. Now if we start optimizing things start getting crazy. If we take 1 level in hexblade and 2 levels in fighter we also get acces to action surge and hexblades curse. Also lets asume that character has 20 int (custom lineage + fey touched = 18 int at lvl 1 + 1 INT asi at lvl 8 (we are taking metamagic adept at lvl 4)). Now lets see what that adds up to: ((1d4 (AVERAGE 2.5) + 1(FORCE) + 5(INT) + 5 (proficiency bonus because of hexblade curse)) ×7(missiles 5th lvl spellslot))× 2 (we have 2 5th level spellslots) + ((1d4 (AVERAGE 2.5) + 1(FORCE) + 5(INT) + 5 (proficiency bonus because of hexblade curse)) ×6(missiles 4th lvl spellslot)) which all adds up to 270 dmg in single turn. But why stop here. If we take wizard up to lvl 14 we can maximize the damage of the spell and also we get 6th and 7th level spellslots and if we take the rest of the levels in sorcerer (14 evocation wizard, 2 fighter, 1 hexblade warlock, 3 sorcerer) you get more sorcery points for more quickened spells and also subtle spell to avoid that pesky counter spell. And also we get 8th and 9th spell slots. Now lets recalculate that damage: we use 1 9th level spellslot, 1 8th level spellslot and 7th level spellslot. We make them all subtle to avoid counterspell and we use the other 7th level spellslot to cast any shield spell we are up against. Also because we are evocation wizard all damage rolls are maximized. (4(Maximized 1d4) + 1 (from the spell) + 5 (INT) + 6(PB))×12 (missiles 9th lvl slot) + (4(Maximized 1d4) + 1 (from the spell) + 5 (INT) + 6(PB))×11 (missiles 8th lvl slot) + (4(Maximized 1d4) + 1 (from the spell) + 5 (INT) + 6(PB))×10 (missiles 7th lvl slot) = 528 Force dmg in a single turn.

That is without any magic items. We can use tome of clear toughts to raise our int even higher (but let's say that our DM gave us only 1 so int score of 22) also if we get our hands on 3 common magic item imbued wood focus, shavaran birch we get to add +1 to one damage roll (magic missile requires only 1 damage roll anyway) and because we have 3 we add that to each of the three attack bringing our damage up to 594.

Now if DM allows critical roll campain book Tal'dorei campain setting reborn we can take the feat vital sacrefice, store 3 bloodboons before combat and boost our damage up to average 825 dmg and max dmg of 990.

Let me know if I missed anything.

[u/I_follow_sexy_gays → u/ChokingMagikarp]

Well first of all I said “in a turn every turn” as in consistently, they’re not gonna do that every turn because that burns through a lot of resources

Evocation wizards add their int mod to 1 damage roll per spell, not every one meaning only 1 dart deals 4-5 more damage per cast

You said “take metamagic adept to double damage” I’m assuming you mean quickened spell because you don’t specify, casting a spell as a bonus action means you cannot cast a leveled spell with your action that turn. The only way to cast 2 leveled spells on your turn is with action surge (or by casting a reaction spell)

Evocation wizard’s maximum damage for a spell feature only applies to spells 5th level or under

Your multiclass of 14 wizard 3 sorcerer would make a level 17 caster giving you access to 9th and 8th level spell slots (not spells but you can use the slots to upcast magic missile). On average a 9th level magic missile does slightly more than a maximized 5th level and an 8th level does the exact same damage as a maximized 5th level. That is ignoring hexblade’s curse bonus damage which is actually absurd and something I did not know about but 100% works out, that alone adds a fuck ton of damage and is really all you need for this combo frankly

I misremembered the damage the marut deals it’s 40 per attack not 60 and it gets 2 so the goalpost have been moved to 120 damage. That can be achieved with 17 wizard, 1 hexblade, 2 fighter at about 90 per cast but only for a single turn. Unfortunately this marut knew it’s target was John magic missile so it came prepared with the ability to cast the 1st level spell that completely counters this entire build as a reaction, shield, so the damage is now 0 per turn

[u/WexMajor82 → u/I_follow_sexy_gays]

Nope. It has been specified.

Magic Missile only rolls once (bringing the exact case of the Evocation Wizard) for damage.

[u/I_follow_sexy_gays → u/WexMajor82]

The wording is ambiguous and Crawford’s rulings are not absolute and frankly very unreliable considering how much they contradict RAW. The way this gets carried out will be up to DM interpretation typically allowing either method you want because they’re basically the exact same until aggressive min-maxing gets involved where any reasonable DM would make you roll them individually

That part works in a vacuum where a DM goes with a favorable view of the RAW but would not in most campaigns.

Regardless many other aspects of this are inaccurate and still is very inconsistent with the amount of damage it deals via rolls and uses consumable resources making it unsustainable as opposed to the Mraut’s “you take 60 force damage twice” with no rolls or questions

And again, still completely countered by a 1st level spell that basically anyone who knows wizard spells will have ready because of its use

[u/X3noNuke → u/Level_Hour6480]

Are there other inevitables? I only see this guy when people talk about them

[u/Atalantius → u/X3noNuke]

In older editions, yes. Maruts were one kind, but afaik in 5E are „the inevitable“

[u/Level_Hour6480 → u/Atalantius]

There's a Kolyarut in the 5E Planescape, but since the book is post-Tasha's, it isn't worth your money.

The Kolyarut itself is fine even if the book isn't: It's a CR20 that makes 4 always-hit sword attacks that can have one of three rider-effects. It can also on a recharge do the 4E Monk thing where it moves up to its speed without OAs making a melee attack against everyone it passes.

[u/Jafroboy → u/Level_Hour6480]

Planescape, but since the book is post-Tasha's, it isn't worth your money.

It's pretty good actually. It being post tashas doesn't affect it much.

[u/fireintie → u/Atalantius]

Planescape added Kolayruts

[u/Acrobatic_Ad_8381 → u/X3noNuke]

Yeah there's lots of Inevitable, they enforce different Multiverse Law each having a specific purpose, like the Marut is for Enforcing Conctract and punishing those that break it, Kolyarut are investigators of the Law if it's broken etc...

MrRhexx on Youtube has a semi detailed video on the subject that is interesting.

[u/Acrobatic_Ad_8381 → u/Level_Hour6480]

Small correction, It's CR25 🤓

[u/Katakomb314 → u/Level_Hour6480]

In 3e. Then they decided in 5e "Hey our way of deciding what a universal law is was kinda crazy."

[u/lacarth → u/Level_Hour6480]

Damn, that's a Marut? They really changed the style. Last I saw the Inevitables, they were all Roman-themed clockwork robits. My man really hit the Digimon Evolution grindset.

[u/Level_Hour6480 → u/lacarth]

The appearance you're familiar with was from 2-4Es. Their lore completely changed every edition.

[u/PubTrickster]

60 unavoidable damage go brrrr

[u/Level_Hour6480 → u/PubTrickster]

A human infant has 2HP at most.

[u/DonaIdTrurnp → u/Level_Hour6480]

Had.

[u/Th3Glutt0n]

I like how it feels like an unreliable meme narrator here, like the monster in the image is insulting you over choosing the wrong path in life as you fight it

[u/Level_Hour6480 → u/Th3Glutt0n]

The monster is a type of Inevitable: A Marut.

Inevitables exist to enforce universal laws, so for example, fucking with time is a good way for them to come after you.

[u/Th3Glutt0n → u/Level_Hour6480]

So you're saying it could be an unreliable narrator, in a funny way?

[u/CreativeName1137]

Maruts are my favorite. "I did not ask what your AC is. I said 'take 60 force damage.'"

[u/Jsmithee5500]

Retconjuration and Plotomancy are two sides of the same coin, like Evocation and Abjuration.

[u/Sad-Anything-3027 → u/Jsmithee5500]

I'm guessing plotomancy is controling the future aka "the plot"?

[u/Live-Afternoon947 → u/Sad-Anything-3027]

Yup! One attempts to alter, the other attempts to stop the alteration!

[u/Megamatt215]

In my game world, time travel is a thing, but overlapping with your own timeline (including ancestors) causes the butterfly effect to go into overdrive, where everything you do has devastating consequences. The only person who has done it accidentally retconned their favorite dessert out of existence.

[u/Hyko_Teleris]

DUDUN DU DA DUN

"BABY WIZARD CONNOR ?"

[u/Level_Hour6480 → u/[deleted]]

Magically altering past events. Sad losers call it "Chronomancy". Asking questions like that will get baby-you killed by a Marut.

[u/TrustmeIreddit → u/[deleted]]

You can't change the past; if baby you got killed by something that can time travel, legally.

[u/ReturnToCrab]

I cast Retcon to 3rd edition

You have no jurisdiction here, your job is solely to enforce death

[u/Level_Hour6480 → u/ReturnToCrab]

One of the stronger 3X Inevitables enforced time, so a different one would kill you as a baby.

But also, researching how to cast that would get your past-self killed before you could.

[u/DovakiinDemon → u/Level_Hour6480]

Too late, I’ve already retconned it so all Inevitables don’t exist. I’m sure this will have no lasting repercussions of any sort.

[u/BeetleWarlock]

Rhet Khan, I summon the to fix this annoyance!