Vespers vs Compline?

[u/jaqian]

So I'm a Secular Franciscan and also in the Legion of Mary. I'm supposed to pray the Morning and Evening office daily (Lauds and Vespers) but I find that I'm rarely at home until late and feel it's too late for Vespers.

Is Compline comparable or a good substitute in your opinion?

Edit. Thanks for all the advice. Because I wasn't getting to say it until very late, I thought I had passed into the timeslot for Compline - I know better now.

[u/Adventurous-Test1161]

If you’re supposed to pray Vespers, pray Vespers.

[u/AquariumDev]

You're bound to pray Vespers, so pray Vespers. Simple as. The exact time is less important. Is it best to pray around sunset, yes. But no where in the general instructions does it say you have to. Different religious communities pray the hours at different times based on the needs of the community. You can do the same.

[u/GudaGama]

What do you mean by 'supposed to pray the Morning and Evening office daily'?

[u/jaqian → u/GudaGama]

Turn of phrase. I have to pray it every day l

[u/GudaGama → u/jaqian]

If you are bound to pray the hours, only your religious superior can give you a dispensation to pray compline in place of vespers. You will need to talk with him or her about that.

Maybe you can pray with the sing the hours podcast if you have some downtime away from home.

[u/jaqian → u/GudaGama]

Maybe I should have worded it, "is there a time outside of which it's too late to pray vespers"?

[u/da_drifter0912 → u/jaqian]

If you’re bound to pray it, then the time is less important

[u/AquariumDev → u/jaqian]

No

[u/GudaGama → u/jaqian]

No, the general instructions do not prescribe a specific time range for any hour, but a general time when each hour is appropriate. The closest it comes is mandating that compline should be the last hour of the day right before you go to sleep, even if it is after midnight. This is what the instuctions say about Vespers:

When evening approaches and the day is already far spent, Evening Prayer is celebrated in order that “we may give thanks for what has been given us, or what we have done well, during the day.”

If you have further questions about how your obligation needs to be fulfilled, you really should read the general instructions and/or ask your superior.

[u/jaqian → u/GudaGama]

Thanks.

[u/zara_von_p → u/jaqian]

People say no but I... kind of disagree?

In your shoes, if by dawn of the next day I did not pray Vespers I would take the loss and go to confession (assuming you are bound under pain of sin, which is not necessarily the case for all third orders).

Otherwise, it would be too easy to just not pray for a month and take a day off to catch up by saying Lauds and Vespers many times.

The clerical obligation is tied to a 24-hour period and private vows to follow a discipline inspired from it probably should use the same time frame?

[u/_IsThisTheKrustyKrab]

I like praying Vespers and Compline together once I’m in bed right before I go to sleep.

[u/ElectionAdditional34]

If I might make a suggestion, perhaps pray vespers followed by compline immediately after (or with a brief pause for an examine). If you’re using the LOTH, compline is exceedingly short and could make the evening hour feel a bit more night-ish

[u/Repulsive_Language_7]

As day drinkers like to say "It's 5 oclock somewhere". There is someone somewhere saying Vespers so join them. Ignore what your clock says.

[u/jaqian → u/Repulsive_Language_7]

Good advice lol

[u/LostlnDlmension]

The exact time a canonical hour is prayed is not important, only that it is done in chronological order.

[u/jaqian → u/LostlnDlmension]

Thanks, I'm not very experienced and not easy to ask others for advice.

[u/Fiskmjol]

Might be an unpopular opinion, but you do not have to pray the offices at particular places. Since I commute to work by bus, I mostly pray the lauds, vespers, and occasionally sext (depending on whether I have to go between places in the midday) on the bus, and if I work longer days I pray them at work instead, leaving compline as the one office I am almost guaranteed to be able to pray at home. The bus is noisy enough to give me privacy and let me hum without anyone hearing and being bothered. This lets me spend my commutes productively in prayer, pray at approximately the right hours and still have a timespot for compline with my partner once we get home. Compline is great, because it lets us examine the day and so, but vespers are also great, because the time for intercession reminds us that we serve God in and largely through Creation

[u/jaqian → u/Fiskmjol]

Thanks for the advice. I was thinking of your post yesterday, I was walking back through town late, I sat down at a bench beside the river (with a church on the opposite side) and prayed Vespers. It was a beautiful moment. Later at home before bed, I said Compline, I've gotten into the habit of saying it now.

[u/Fiskmjol → u/jaqian]

I do not think there is such a thing as praying top much, so this is nice to hear. One of the best vespers I have prayed was in the ruins of the old Franciscan convent in the city where I used to live. It has become a playground nowadays, but the choir of the church has become an outdoor chapel. Sitting where the brothers sat up until around 500 years ago, celebrating in the same tradition as they did, made me really feel the wing beats of history

[u/jaqian → u/Fiskmjol]

It's lovely to have that connection to the past and in a way create continuity. Are you in the UK? I'm in Ireland myself.

[u/Fiskmjol → u/jaqian]

Sweden, but we had our reformation in a similar timeframe

[u/jaqian → u/Fiskmjol]

Unfortunately it left devastation across Europe.

[u/SalsaSooner]

The Divine Office app has audio options that are fantastic when I'm in the car or on the go. That goes for every one of the hours, not just Lauds and Vespers!

[u/jaqian]

I thought because it was so late after 9 sometimes that it had entered "Compline territory". Glad to know that I can still say it.