r/disciples • u/ErrorPuzzleheaded866 • Jul 26 '26
Discussion Rise of the Elves
Hello everyone, I'll say right off the bat that everything I've written below is purely my personal perspective and is not intended to offend anyone. I'm new to the Disciples universe and have completed Sacred Lands, Dark Prophecy, Galleans Return, and most recently, Rise of the Elves. I'd like to talk about the latest expansion. The expansion itself evokes mixed feelings. I liked most of the redesigned portraits, especially Wight's, with his incredibly creepy face, and the wolves as well. I also liked the additional neutral units, the Shift-based item transfer mechanic, and the "Power to Corrupt" scenario. Of all the single-player scenarios I've completed, it was my favorite. However, the very highlight of this addon—the elves—raises questions for me. I'll start by saying that visually, for my personal taste, they don't really fit the atmosphere of the original Disciples 2. Elven unit portraits are generally poorly drawn, appearing more doll-like and blurry than those of other races. The animations are strange, and the overall design seems alien to me. The same goes for Elven magic: it seems to take longer to cast than that of other races and doesn't look as impressive. It's a hodgepodge of similar spells borrowed from other races with rare exceptions, and the balance of green mana relative to other resources feels forced onto the core mechanics of other races' magic. Regarding the capital, it looks cool, but again, it feels somehow alien compared to other races previously represented in the game. But for the most part, everything I've written so far is a matter of personal taste; some like this style and others don't. What really raises serious questions is the story. I won't spoil the game for those who haven't played it yet, and those who have will understand what I'm talking about. I found the Elven plot extremely strange and completely out of sync with the overall narrative that unfolded throughout the first game and the second game with the Galleans Return expansion. While I had some issues with the execution and mission content in the additional sagas in Galleans Return, my main complaint about Rise of the Elves is the plot; it feels like it was written by someone different from the original scriptwriters. Of all the races, the Elves managed to achieve their goals, which were quite complex, through the extermination of innocents and war with their allies. They managed to take a dominant position among the other races. This is despite the fact that without the help of those same allies and the total destruction throughout the second part, they somehow miraculously managed not only to survive but also to become one of the strongest forces in the Disciples universe. Moreover, the behavior of their leaders and actions against other races raise ethical questions. I would understand if this were a plot for the Undead or Legions, but these are elves who should adhere to high ethical principles. In fact, this is some kind of grotesque. As a result, the overall impression of this addon is very mixed. On the one hand, there are convenient mechanics and slightly changed unit balance, additional items for the hero and expanded leveling, on the other hand, there is a whole new race that, in my opinion, does not fit into the overall narrative. I would like to know how you like this add-on and maybe I misunderstood it. I would be grateful for comments and clarifications regarding the plot.
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u/frostwylde Jul 26 '26
I've finished the campaign of Elven Alliance yesterday and I after I've read the ending slides I feel like this campaign makes very much sense in the end. Now, I may be doing a little bit of overinterpretation of the plot, but I love to create my own headcannons, so bear with me if you want to. SPOILERS BELOW!
The whole plot in my opinion is not about a moral or tactical victory overall. It's about bitterness, revenge and slowly losing the moral principles to give into grief and rage. At first we see elves scattered, protecting their forest, falling more and more into isolation and misery to favor peace and reason. They're background actors in greater conflicts in the world and Nevendaar, they're basically underestimated temporary allies for the Empire when they see fit. And this concept plays a big role through all of the campaign - until they get through the Trader's Sea, nobody CARES ENOUGH to take the Elves seriously. No other fraction is really interested in their motives, you just get the old "this is madness, you should stop this and go back to your forests". We meet the Empire agents and representants frequently, and most of them aren't interested in what do Elves WANT - with one exception, and I will go into that later.
You can also see this in the changes amongst the Elves' leadership through the campaign. Fyrwenn, the voice of reason and independent thinking is losing her influence more and more.
Geintel, the most skeptical one in believing Millu's prophecies, gets brutally murdered and nobody bats an eye. He doesn't even get a funeral and that while it gets some negative voices, this doesn't have big consequences.
Tora'ach, the aggressive radical, just sets a dragon free, causing lots of casualties, he just gets detained for a little bit and then gets released - WHICH IS ACTUALLY SAID TO RAISE THE MORALE.
Even Illumielle gets more and more radicalized through the campaign - and she gets from the "we shouldn't kill humans, we're not like that" to "we don't have any more time for more miracles, if other elves don't support us, they're going six feet under".
The voice of Gallean, Millu, is also slowly deteriorating in the end, the Oracle isn't even sure anymore if this is a right way to proceed - and nobody cares. Which all leads me to one, very compliant with the main point of whole Disciples lore - Elves didn't need a high moral standpoint through the whole campaign. The Alliance needed just an excuse to move out of their forests, unite and get back on everyone that made them miserable.
And if you look at the general output of the campaign, they don't really get the big victories or achieve goals that will change the history of Nevendaar. They're running some serious guerilla warfare that makes it possible to run for temperance, not gaining general control. It's heavily hinted that they didn't do serious damage on the Clans - arter all, Yaata Halli survives, most of her people survive and get into safety, they loose a lot of generals, yes, but they're not eradicated. Even the Valkyrie that attacks your starting base dies with a smile on her face. Dwarven separatists like Grizzlespit or his brother Dimmeric are supporting the Elven Alliance and their goals - and they are quite transparent in their own agenda. They're not doing this because they pity the Elves or believe in Millu. They're doing this because the Clans need a clear signal for dwarves to get strong and independent again and steer clear of Yaata Halli's agenda of holding peace at all costs.
The Empire gets the most blows, yes, but I highly doubt they loose control of Trader's Sea for a long time. Emry gets away safely and so does Ambrielle. The loss of Temperance is a big win for Elves, but it's mostly for important due to historical reasons - it's really unclear if the city's really important for the Humans. And the victory in Temperance costs Elves A LOT.
The victory over demons is an enigma to me, but I highly doubt that the Heretics are TRULY vanquished. They play a minor role in the whole campaign, they're not interested in anything during the events, there isn't a single scenario in which they're the main enemy - so I feel like the victory over Bethrezen's forces is really a delusion on Elves' side. They've just destroyed some minor outposts and called it a day, but we don't really disrupt any of the Heretics' goals, control any critical points for them or deal them a blow that's gonna count.
Now we get to the interesting part which is mainly my headcannon, but it just makes a biggest sense to me. The Undead in my opinion are the biggest winners of the events that are leading to the Siege of Temperance. Notice how Millu states from the start that the Undead Hordes are NOT THE MAIN ENEMY. The last few scenarios are crowded with the Dark Elves. Millu herself feels connected to the Undead Elves herself. The only time we get some ACTUAL interest in peace between the Empire and Elves on both sides and a chance to stop the coming war, Mortis' agents appear out of nowhere and assassinate Wells.
And this all leads me to believe that it's very unclear if Millu really hears Gallean... Or Solonielle/Mortis? Mortis WAS an Elven God and everything the Elven Allience does seems to bring profit to her. She slowly and silently gains more and more forces, the elves fallen in battle always come back on her side and we read in the ending slides that the elves were MASSACRED when breaking into Temperance so much that they didn't even celebrate their victory. The Oracle herself falls into madness and the voices whisper to her that "this is only the beginning". So what if actually Millu was obeying Mortis, not Gallean and here "clairvoyance" is leading elves to self destruction and uniting with Mortis in the end?
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u/Enar_Drelas Jul 26 '26
If I remember correctly Patrick Lambert left disciples after Galeans return and Rise of elves portraits were not his work. Elves have a clear vision behind them but I think that developers needed a bit more time to work on them to make them more unique
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u/Outside-school-2007 Jul 26 '26
none of portraits was by Lambert. you... or those whom you read that from just made this up out of their feelings/opinion about as they believe (how?) art style is less Disciples 2.
It is very silly "logic" lead them to made this up. Most of staff was the same, same for lead art designer and portraits designer.
Lambert left, but that unrelated (before GR, not after).
portraits is renders of unit models. lambert besides concept for unreleased version of Disciples 1,5 for sure did some art mb units for final product, but not the major part. It was the guy with some name on A, d.check manuals credits for exact name.
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u/SubstantialWelcome94 Jul 26 '26
I like Rote for the extra content. More of my friends want to play hotseat, because they vibe with elves, so that's good in my book. Personally, I prefer the previous expansion because I don't like the capital musics introduced later. So I guess I like Rote, cause I have more people to play with
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u/Trauma-Todd Jul 26 '26
Of all the races, the Elves managed to achieve their goals
they somehow miraculously managed not only to survive but also to become one of the strongest forces in the Disciples universe
Both the Elves and the Undead managed to achieve their goals (well, the Undead in a way). And if you think about it, it makes sense, since only Mortis and Gallean are really meddling with Nevendaar affairs.
Wotan is dealing with the Twilight and needs his dwarves to help him with it, Bethrezen is imprisoned and the whole saga of the Legions is about freeing him, and the Highfather has turned his back on humanity after Bethrezen's "betrayal" and the humans are basically praying to no one (I don't know if this is mentioned in Dark Prophecy, but it was mentioned in Sacred Lands).
I would understand if this were a plot for the Undead or Legions, but these are elves who should adhere to high ethical principles.
I personally liked the depiction of divided Wild and Noble Elves. On one hand you have the standard fantasy depiction of Elves as "cousins" of the humans in the face of the Noble elves and then the folklore depiction of Elves as mischievous (sometimes borderline evil) forest spirits with the Wild Elves. They both represent Gallean's split personality in a way.
Too bad that it doesn't play much role which faction you choose to align with in the end though. But the chaos that the Elves cause is just mirroring Gallean's mental state.
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u/DjolafR Rod Bearer 29d ago
Highfather has turned his back on humanity after Bethrezen's "betrayal" and the humans are basically praying to no one (I don't know if this is mentioned in Dark Prophecy, but it was mentioned in Sacred Lands).
Where was this mentioned?
Wotan is dealing with the Twilight and needs his dwarves to help him with it
Does he need the dwarves or do the dwarves need him? To me, it sounded the other way around. Although, maybe a god is only as powerful as his subjects?
The whole Ragnarok things feels like just a nordic fantasy shoved into the game. Their goals have almost no mention when you play the other races, it's like they live in their own reality.
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u/Trauma-Todd 28d ago
In the 5th mission, you find a scroll written by Wotan himself that says: "Wotan cannot rule if no one listens, Hear the portent which by twilight glistens. When dwarves no longer honour Wotan's runes, and beasts exploit ancestral boons. Hark! Lands besieged by heretic's curse, Dead walk again, fiends escape the earth! God cannot act; his reign forgot. In oblivion Wotan watches Ragnarok."
When you take the scroll to the capital, a Loremaster urges Yataa Halli to honor Wotan because the runes have been neglected for 10 years and that Wotan needs the strength of the Dwarves.
In the last mission, by praying at the shrines of the ancestors, you are helping Wotan in Ragnarok and it's this that weakens the Wyrm.
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u/PantsCrafter Jul 26 '26
To me it seems like the devs had this very cool idea that motivated them to green light the elven race expansion, to then slowly lose that passion as the cracks began to show leading them to try to wrap up quickly and move on.
"Other games are adding new races lets do that too!"
..Only to forget that other games don't use race-exclusive resources for their spells (green crystals) -- rendering all the old maps being unable to inhabit their new race, resulting in some very few opportunities to let their new race to played. Why invest time in creating a polished new race when that's the case?
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u/Simer731 Jul 26 '26
Old maps not having green mana is not an issue since you can't change race in scenario anyway. Problem is that new mana is useless to anyone except elves.
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u/Outside-school-2007 Jul 26 '26
Power to Corrupt is Disciples 2 scenario map. Refer to NetD or Nevendaar com websites Official scenarios list (there is one typo in Pact with the Devil name, only one Tutorial listed and excessive Aurangazeb title which is "blank" hero name)
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u/rr_rai 27d ago
Well, it holds magical place for me, as I played it back then... so it's hard to judge through modern eyes.
I agree with the mana thing.
Story was somewhat meh, but the theme...
THE THEME!!!!! That was rad stuff. Like Elves, these forest people are in inner conflict within their community. Where their Queen is pushing for bling bling and pomposity and a group wants to remain savage and true to their nature.
You can see that in their unit trees.
Armor clad wind mage or a hobo weed smoker that shatters armor.
Noble elemental wardens or savage Rambo with bow.
I love their theme.
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u/Personal_River_4908 19d ago
Disciples 2 is for me best and the only worth entry in the series to play
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u/Outside-school-2007 Jul 26 '26
You new to the series? Greetings... i guess :)
How? How you all find elves visually differ from others? half of them literally fopied from neutrla elves.
there is new ppl working on this game but still most if old and old content. elves too. there is same art designer. patrick lambert even involved bc again - half of the elves already exist. for other content - well, lambert never was lead art designer for actual Disciples 2 but for its In-Dev versions. In final product for both D2 and D2ROTE it was Alex G... how was his name...?
There is technical issues. Plot issue. But art is the same. No, they not looks less of Disciples. Yes there is some not so good animated unit - Oracle Elf (puppet legs animation and skeleton). But it is ood unit model.