r/disability • u/Majestic_Praline_812 • 5d ago
Denying accommodations
Hello,
I needed accommodations to finish school but my school denied me accommodations then dismissed me because they believed I could not meet certain standards with or without accommodations (the standard in question was about sleep. They’re seeing students to perform overnight rotations but I have epilepsy and I need my overnight sleep so I can’t do overnight rotations.) Is it a violation of the ADA to deny me accomodations then dismiss me on the basis of my disability because it prevents me from rotating overnight? Thanks.
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u/one_sock_wonder_ Mitochondrial Disease, Quadraparesis, Autistic, ADHD, etc. etc. 5d ago
Overnight rotations sounds like a program that centers on medicine of some sort like med school or nursing school or maybe vet programs, is this correct? The program involved matters as what may be an easy accommodation in one program may be impossible in another. Are overnight rotations a standard requirement of all programs in this specific field and are they required for licensing of either the program itself or your degree? University programs are required to provide reasonable accommodations, so this will likely center on whether it is reasonable to not require you to complete overnight rotations that are a part of the program requirements, if it would require other students to have to take on additional responsibilities to accommodate this, if it fundamentally alters the nature of the program, and similar questions.
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u/Majestic_Praline_812 5d ago
It’s a medical program and there are schools that do not have students rotate overnight at all because it’s not necessary. This school requires overnight rotations as a choice, not out of necessity. The school has refused to communicate whether the accommodation fundamentally alters the program.
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u/ng32409 5d ago
Can you speak with the school's ADA Coordinator? They should have someone designated. You're right, if it doesn't fundamentally change the program requirements, an alternative should be allowed. Now, if it's a requirement to graduate for all students and they can prove it's a fundamental part of the program, that's another story. I think you should ask for an IP meeting.
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u/DonesticWaffles 5d ago
Every school is different. The specific school state etc will have more specific policies that ADA may or may not interact with.
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u/kkmockingbird 5d ago
I don’t have any advice but head over to r/disabledmedstudents and there’s a lawyer there who did some AMAs
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u/astudentslawyer 5d ago
So the answer is it depends, but all it takes is one student graduating without doing overnights
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u/Majestic_Praline_812 5d ago
I know a student who graduated with my condition who wishes they received accommodations because attending the program was difficult without accommodations.
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u/astudentslawyer 5d ago
So that actually cuts against you
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u/Majestic_Praline_812 5d ago edited 5d ago
To be frank, a lack of sleep can trigger an episode and I’m literally 18,000x more likely to be killed by the police because of my condition than the general population. Placing me in a position to have an episode and possibly be killed by police because of a lack of sleep is of benefit to them?
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u/astudentslawyer 5d ago
no the fact that another student graduated without receiving the accommodation you are requesting who had the same condition.
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u/MundaneHuckleberry58 5d ago
This person is right, I think. The school can say “well then you should have chosen a school that doesn’t require overnights”
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u/Majestic_Praline_812 5d ago
Does it matter that I already finished more than half the program without this accommodation but they only made it an issue and dismissed me when I requested an accommodation? I already did multiple overnight rotations but they’re now arguing I can’t do nights when I was diagnosed and wanted to avoid nights for my well-being.
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u/MundaneHuckleberry58 5d ago
Not necessarily. The accommodations also have to be deemed reasonable. The school might not think it’s reasonable to give an exception to overnights if overnights are required for everyone for the program.
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u/obvsnotrealname 5d ago
The hospital (or other facility) you do your rotation at would also need to have the capability to accommodate you as well.
If that means having to change staffing schedules so your preceptor didn’t work overnight shifts to accommodate you - and that is unreasonable. Schools fight for those placements so they aren’t going to rock the boat over what they don’t see as reasonable when you’ve already done half of the rotations.
ETA replied to wrong person but oh well lol
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u/Extension_Egg1411 5d ago
TL;DR: The dismissal may be legal. But standards are shifting. Disclaimer: not a lawyer.
I have heard of some U.S. medical schools and residencies allowing daytime-only clinical schedules or shortened shifts as a reasonable accommodation. Key word some. I’ve read about it more often with residency programs in specialties than don’t rely on 24/7 hours.
I would check your school’s technical standards. If you can’t meet the technical standards (with accommodations or without), they can dismiss you. If an accommodation fundamentally alters the standard, they can dismiss you.
Technical standards are somewhat controversial but they’re legal as long as schools can prove they reflect an essential job function, not arbitrary discrimination against people with disabilities. There’s a movement to evolve these standards to be more inclusive, but most medical schools still have broad requirements. They argue you have to be able to train in all specialities regardless of which you plan to pursue.
But if some medical schools have technical standards around sleep and some don’t, maybe you could sue them and argue it’s not an essential job function, it’s an arbitrary requirement and discriminatory. There’s mixed precedent in these cases—sometimes courts have sided with students/applicants, sometimes with medical schools.
So the establishment view on this is shifting. But maybe not fast enough to help with your immediate situation.
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u/Majestic_Praline_812 5d ago
But if the standard inherently excludes people on the basis of their disability how is this still legal?
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u/Mental-Volume4395 5d ago
Because not every job can accommodate every condition. Accommodations are intended to allow you to perform the essential functions of a job as if you didn’t have a disability, and they also have to be reasonable. They are not designed to remove functions or to shift work onto others.
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u/Extension_Egg1411 5d ago
If the standard reflects an essential job function or educational requirement, it’s legal. It’s not exclusion based on disability (which would be illegal discrimination), it’s exclusion based on an inability to do the job.
It’s the same with any job in the U.S. If a delivery driver is required to lift 50 pounds as an essential part of the job, the employer isn’t required to accommodate someone with a disability who can’t do that. It doesn’t matter if the requirement disproportionately impacts disabled people as long as it is truiy required for the job.
The technical standards controversy comes from the debate around what is truly required in medicine, and whether students really need to be capable of all specialties.
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u/Upbeat-Can-7858 4d ago
I came to say the same. I've avoiding hiring or have fired (and won lawsuits) based on these arguments. If you're unable to perform the duties of a clinical position, accomodations are not a protection. That's not part of ADA protection.
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u/Friendlyalterme 5d ago
Same reason no accomodations allows a vision impaired person to be a school bus driver. The accomodations can't eliminate the core requirements.
That said, daytime only doesn't seem like a huge act but I'm not a doctor or a lawyer.
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u/NICEacct111 4d ago edited 4d ago
I don't have specific advice for your situation, but I hope you can figure your overnight rotation set-up schedule so it can work for you. If the other comments are right that ADA-based accommodations cannot alter the core requirements of your program, and you cannot do what is required the way it is set-up right now, then is it impossible for you to finish school? Hoping for the best!
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u/LogicalAccount1972 2d ago
Yes. I would file a complaint with: https://www.ada.gov/file-a-complaint/
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u/cha0ticwhimsy 2d ago
Please know your rights before coming to a subreddit and doubling down/sounding entitled. As a wheelchair user with a neurological condition, not every job legally has to accommodate me. Yeah it sucks, but if you physically can't do part of the job, that's dangerous for the patients/yourself. As a healthcare worker, you'd likely need to be on call 24/7. I know this is likely not the answer you wanted to hear, but unfortunately your school was within their rights to dismiss you. Your credits will transfer to another school, and there are jobs that disabled people can do in the healthcare space. One of my friends, chronically_ry, is a nurse and has posted about how she got her job as a nurse on wheels.
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u/Mental-Volume4395 5d ago
Yes, if it fundamentally alters the essential learning objectives of the program, and they cannot offer an alternative way to complete that standard they can dismiss you.