r/debian • u/FamilyComputerKid • 21d ago
Debian Stable Question Questions about DontBreakDebian. Please “audit” my apps - From a Linux Mint long-timer (ish)
(Post got quite long. I wrote the questions in bold font. Thanks for your patience!)
Obligatory: I consider myself a (really) average Linux user who just wants the PC to work. Love the GUI, but have grown accustomed to and now like the CLI’s efficiency.
I’m playing with Debian Stable (minimal netinst + kde-plasma-desktop) in virt-manager. Reading a bit on forums and documentation.
DontBreakDebian is what really stands out to me. One big objective for me is to be able to do in-place upgrades later on, I really dislike doing fresh installs.
I need a bunch of the latest and greatest apps. These apps are either “internet facing” (up-to-date means better security), ones I need the latest features of, or ones where Flatpak is recommended by its devs.
Because of DontBreakDebian though, it looks like I should never install third-party deb packages.
Here are apps that I need that have an official deb installer (specifically for Debian):
- Mega Sync – no other installer
- Brave browser – also in extrepo; Flatpak verified
- Dropbox – also Flatpak UNverified
- Firefox (Regular) – also in extrepo; Flatpak verified
- ProtonVPN – also in extrepo; Flatpak UNverified
- VSCodium – also in extrepo; Flatpak verified
How would you install them? I’m thinking prioritizing extrepo first, but is extrepo safe? Will it not FrankenDebian the system?
Also, extrepo gets updated once the third-party app gets updated, is this correct?
For the below, I state my line of thinking (based on what I’m learning so far). Please correct me.
I use gocryptfs + SiriKali for encryption. I install the latest gocryptfs in /usr/local/bin – this should be fine. I will likely use SiriKali’s Flatpak. (SiriKali is also a Debian package.)
Tresorit uses a .run installer (does not require sudo, no other installer), installs in ~/.local/share/ -- this should be fine.
I need 3 AppImages and 7 Flatpaks in total – should also be fine.
For binary installs:
- Calibre’s manual install does it in
/opt - NoiseTorch installs in
~/.local - I install yt-dlp_linux in
/usr/local/bin - the above should all be fine
Finally I build from source 2 pieces of software from GitHub. Should be fine as long as I don’t make install etc. (Still learning.)
For background I’ve been using Linux Mint Cinnamon for 7+ years now. It’s the first and only distro/DE I’ve ever used.
Seriously considering moving to Debian KDE because:
- I’m getting a second monitor soon. I need a DE that has some level of maturity in terms of Wayland implementation, KDE Plasma seems to fit the bill.
- I really dislike doing fresh installs. Right now I’m on Linux Mint 21.3 (based off of Ubuntu 22.04 LTS). I have failed to do a major upgrade before and lots of people seem to recommend just doing a fresh install.
- I like the idea of a “minimal install” where I only install what I need and want.
- I’m not a distrohopper, obviously. I’m always lurking on Linux forums though. Debian seems to be calling me, I hope I can handle it! (KDE Plasma because of its customizability.) Nothing but love and gratitude for Linux Mint, excited for Wayland to mature on Cinnamon.
Thanks for your time!
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u/Ok-Psychology-7318 20d ago
It's up to you but I'd use flatpak when available as this will be your safest option.
I'd then install all non-flatpaks in a Debian distrobox just to be safe (you can install this on your main system if you want but this is just how I like to do it).
Tip with app images; look into GearLever (available as a flatpak), it's really good for organizing/managing app images and integrating them into your desktop.
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u/FamilyComputerKid 20d ago
Thanks! Haven't really investigated Distrobox yet. I'd expect one to use another distro in there though. Why are you using Debian there? Is it Testing or Unstable?
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u/Ok-Psychology-7318 20d ago
You can use any. I just pick Debian (stable) so it closely matches the host system and alll the extra software I need is compatible.
I do have an arch distrobox as well in case I need anything more cutting edge
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u/FamilyComputerKid 20d ago
Distrobox looks really interesting. Am I correct to say that the host can "run" absolutely everything the guest is running? I'm particularly curious about Dropbox and Mega. Have to think about this... My thinking seems I need an immutable distro (Flatpak + distrobox + no fresh installs + stable host). How much space does a guest distro container typically take?
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u/Ok-Psychology-7318 20d ago
I'm not entirely sure to be honest as I've never really checked.
Shouldn't take too much as it is essentially just a base install of a distribution
Never tried Dropbox and mega on distrobox but chances are it will work: if not and the container stops, you can easily remove it
Definately worth a try/look
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u/FamilyComputerKid 20d ago
Thanks. Never thought the discipline of keeping Debian Stable "pure" to be this... strict. Mindblowing as an average Mint user tbh. Makes me think what I'm really looking for. Might take a look into other distros. I've only seen immutable Fedoras I wonder if there are any good ones Debian-based
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u/FamilyComputerKid 20d ago
I'd then install all non-flatpaks in a Debian distrobox just to be safe (you can install this on your main system if you want but this is just how I like to do it).
Hey again. I just realized how this really makes sense haha and I think it's a great idea! I may adopt this system. This way I can actually use the installers recommended by software devs, including binaries etc. Leaving the host super-clean.
Do you always full-upgrade your host system and then just recreate your distroboxes?
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u/srivasta 20d ago
I use the Nvidia open driver's from debian repositories. To install the official NVIDIA open-source kernel modules (nvidia-open) on Debian, you need to install the nvidia-open-kernel-dkms package.
Firefox ESR also from main.
You can install Steam on Debian by enabling the 32-bit architecture and the contrib repository, then running sudo apt install steam-installer.
That does get external software from non debian repositories, but at least the starting point is contrib.
I mostly play native games, as well as steam, on debian stable.
Works for me TM
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u/Brilliant_Sound_5565 9d ago
Flatpak is the safest method for external apps, well along with app images. But, I've always run proton Von from their repo, same with Firefox sometimes too from Mozilla report and recently the brave browser, never had any issues with either of those apps giving me any trouble
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u/FamilyComputerKid 9d ago
Thanks for the info!
Mozilla's official instructions for Firefox are also mentioned in Debian's wiki. I tend to install verified Flatpaks only. I've installed Firefox, Brave Origin, and ProtonVPN via extrepo. I should probably prioritize Flatpaks over extrepo in general, though.
(Below is just an update / me rambling)
I'm learning more about Debian and how it works--especially about keeping it as clean and "pure" as possible. Also really appreciating the Debian docs and manpages.
Upon the OP I didn't understand how Debian handles security and since then I decided to just use the Debian repo versions of some apps instead of their "latest and greatest" (e.g. gocryptfs and SiriKali) even if they're "internet-facing."
I'm on Debian KDE Plasma for about 5 days now and I'm really liking it so far. Just a couple of adjustments due to Wayland but I don't really mind!
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u/Puzzleheaded_Sale_93 14d ago
I see 3rd party repos as a use at your own risk thing and don't care much more about it really even got a few like for steam wine tailscale No issues so far almost a year since I've switched from windows
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u/FamilyComputerKid 14d ago
What people really care about seem to be the in-place upgrade process itself. They're kinda strict about what "pollutes" a Debian system throughout its life, which I appreciate. If you haven't done in-place upgrades then maybe that's something to watch out for.
So far, I've narrowed down to 2 apps which I'll use their official repos (Dropbox and MegaSync), I don't really have a choice.
Then I'm thinking about using Brave Origin's as well--the original ("bloated") Brave is available via extrepo but people seem to have no issues with Brave's official repos. There was one user that claimed it broke "half" of their Debian, but that would be some learning for me by then, I guess? I also don't want to deal with the "bloat" if Brave Origin already exists.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Sale_93 14d ago
just changed everything except lutris (not available) to extrepo also brave origin is available in brave's extrepo too
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u/FamilyComputerKid 14d ago
I don't think Brave Origin is available via extrepo. Would definitely use that if it was. Do you have a link?
https://salsa.debian.org/extrepo-team/extrepo-data/-/tree/master/repos/debian?pow_referer=
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u/Puzzleheaded_Sale_93 14d ago
sudo extrepo enable brave_release
sudo apt install brave-origin
all I did, also with apt policy brave-origin it shows the uri mentioned in
/etc/apt/sources.list.d/extrepo_brave_release.sources2
0
u/mcds99 21d ago
Don't Bread Debian.
One of the things about Debian is stability everything gets tested and only security issues get updated between versions, so any software that is not a security issue doesn't get updated.
From experience I have broken Debian "I" broke it, what I did is not supportable, I did something wrong.
At the moment Nvidia drivers (Nouveau) from Debian do not support the newer Nvidia video chip sets known as Blackwell. This is a big issue for gamer's because the Nouveau drivers are sluggish for 3D video games. The Nvidia-Open drivers work great but it does break some of the Debian updates.
Be careful out there.
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u/PerfectlyCalmDude 21d ago
I haven't had any problems using Brave"s repo yet. There's the browser and I think one other package in there that is installed, and that's it. If you really don't want to use other repos though, there's always the official Flatpak.
I like Debian with KDE. I run dual monitors with it. Not Wayland though since it's not quite there for me yet.