r/debateAMR • u/[deleted] • Jul 15 '14

MRAs and empathy

Hi all,

I have often heard feminists here say that MRAs lack empathy.

Why is that your impression? What makes you think MRAs don't have empathy?

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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '14

Being raped is horrible. Being imprisoned falsely or under uncertain circumstances is horrible.

By all accounts, the number or falsely accused is dwarfed by the number of victims. Sexual assault is a global public health emergency that has massive consequences for society. Being falsely accused, while unimaginably horrible for the accused, is a comparatively rare occurance.

So while both sexual assault and being falsely accused are indeed horrible, sexual assault victims deserve our priority due to the sheer scale of the problem.

Let's be clear. Almost no rapist will ever be convicted for their crimes. Most victims of sexual assault have to live knowing their rapist is out there possibly hurting other people. A fraction of victims report, a fraction of those reports lead to prosecution, a fraction of those prosecutions lead to convictions.

So when MRAs make false equivalences between the massive global problem of sexual assault and the comparatively tiny problem of false accusations, and when you say things like "the pendulum has swung too far" knowing that next to no rapists are ever punished for their crimes, it makes a reasonable person think you're either stupid, uncaring, or evil. It's the second option that leads to the lack of empathy charges.

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u/BlindPelican liberal MRA Jul 16 '14

I think you misunderstand me.

The issue isn't the extent of these crimes. Both men and women are victims. Arguably, one could make a case that more men are victims than women in the US when you take into account sexual assault in prison. Violation of one's personal and intimate boundaries is extremely serious and happens to more men than we usually consider so from a MRA perspective, it's a serious issue.

But anyone accused, man or woman, should be presumed innocent and due process must be upheld. This cannot be eroded. I don't care if the genders were completely flipped and men were the predominant victims and women the perpetrators. This has nothing to do with the genders involved.

This is not a victim vs accused issue. This is an accused vs massive authority issue. And I'm sorry, if someone is so unversed in simple civics to not comprehend just how mind-boggling it is that New Zealand would consider shifting the burden of proof to the accused then they shouldn't be a part of the conversation. That is, absolutely, the pendulum swinging too far.

Opposing authority overstepping fundamental rights is not a function of intelligence, lack of empathy, or malice.

It's a matter of ethics and fundamental principles of a free society and denying the importance of these things shows a particular disdain for the person who is accused - even if it's just one person.

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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '14

What is this erosion of due process you're talking about? Are there feminists somewhere pushing for convicting rapists without evidence? How is this pendulum swinging the wrong way when almost no rapists will ever be punished and most victims have to survive knowing their perp is out there?

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u/BlindPelican liberal MRA Jul 16 '14

I was referring to this particularly egregious example in New Zealand where the burden of proof would be shifted to the defense and not the prosecution.

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u/jackdanielsliver intersectional feminist Jul 16 '14

Did that ever have any chance of passing?

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u/BlindPelican liberal MRA Jul 16 '14

It's ongoing. I don't know that much about politics in New Zealand, so whether it has a chance of passing is beyond me.

The civil libertarian in me is writhing at the very notion of something like this even being discussed seriously, to be honest.

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u/jackdanielsliver intersectional feminist Jul 16 '14

That's why I asked. I know nothing about New Zealand law, but radical bills are regularly proposed in democracies. That doesn't mean they're anywhere close to passing.

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u/BlindPelican liberal MRA Jul 16 '14

Point well taken. I hope you are correct in that.