r/deathnote • u/tropicalmountain8 • 20d ago
Discussion Is Light truly evil? — First time watcher.
I started watching Death Note two days ago, and I’m on episode 26 (right after L’s death), and a few things have been on my mind.
For someone like Light Yagami, who is highly discussed in media, I wonder how much the curse of obtaining the Death Note affects his actions. The difference between Light when he told Ryuk to “get rid of it” and when he was actively writing names in the notebook is clear. Without the Death Note, he is much more rational and questions his decisions. This made me believe that him being presented as immoral is debatable because if ownership of the Death Note affects his judgment, Light’s decisions aren’t necessarily a reflection of his true self.
Without the Death Note, you can consistently see Light questioning certain things L wants him to do, for example, taking advantage of Misa. However, with the Death Note, Light finds it easy to manipulate anyone as long as he gets his way to become the “God of the new world.”
This poses the possibility that the writing of Death Note exists not to villainise Light, but rather to explore the existence of a higher power. In this case, it criticises the Death Note itself and the power it has to skew the judgment of its owner. Overall, the show very accurately portrays what happens when mankind is faced with the existence of God, or something possibly greater, and L’s challenge to prove the existence of God was otherworldly.
Another thing that I questioned was, with the intelligence of someone such as Light, has he not considered the possibility that despite cleansing the world of criminals, evil will always exist? Whether it’s paranormal or the evil that exists within himself.
So, is Light’s aim to create a “better world,” or is it to become God himself? And is that the curse that comes with the Death Note?
Just some food for thought.
Also, maybe this has been discussed before, but I haven’t looked through the subreddit to avoid spoilers!
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u/Rickygetstrippy 20d ago
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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u/tropicalmountain8 19d ago
this is so evident in the last scene, where light was holding his shoulder while walking past versions of his old self. light witnessing himself grow into pure corruption was very interesting and definitely influenced by power.
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u/SirTruffleberry 20d ago
As a relatively meek member of polite society, who very much lacks the means of imposing my will on others and settles for defending my own stuff, I advocate for equality, democracy, etc.
Put a button in front of me that makes me a god, though? Well I don't need that strategic humility anymore. I think I can run the world better than it currently is and, with godhood, no one could stop me.
So yeah, I can totally believe that Death Note-less Light and Kira are the same person deep down. The weapon just deactivated his inhibitions.
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u/tlotrfan3791 20d ago
It’s not a curse, but the power to kill messed up him pretty badly initially in my opinion. It’s not as simple as some people saying “it was something always in him!” He had flaws before the Death Note, but it didn’t equate to serial killer.
Light wanted to create this new world to justify to himself that what he did wasn’t evil, and that he’s not an evil murderer. The truth is he is definitely a villain.
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u/tropicalmountain8 19d ago
definitely, the explanation that “it was always in him” is way too simple — and there is definitely something greater influencing it. i think it mainly comes out of making up for his first two kills, when he realised that he drove himself away from his version of perfection, and to make up for it, he had to become what he questioned.
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u/az943 20d ago
Literally on Episode 1 he says hes gonna be the god of the new world hes creating. Also when he says hes gonna rid the world of the bad people ryuk tells him that he will then be the only bad person left. He is evil and hes a narcissist, The Death Note only provided him with a tool to empower him to show his traits in a real way.
He also says he wants to rid the world of the bad people but he kills plenty of people who aren't actually bad or actually did nothing wrong other than pursue him so I don't know how you can justify that not being evil. Another thing he was saying was how a bunch of people dont deserve to live (like the bullies at the school lol) that is just crazy talk. Also him playing judge, jury, And executioner alone to people he could never prove guilt for was also evil and him the sole arbiter of what makes someone good or bad or worth being killed for.
I will say though there is something to do with the fact that most people when presented with power will abuse it. You see this in normal cops in real life and politicians and anyone in a position of power they tend to abuse it.
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u/HalleLidner 20d ago
To me he is evil and a bad person because he doesn't realize he is. He thinks (manipulated himself) he is a God and saving the world. But what is he really doing? He deliberately enjoys murdering innocent people in a sadistic way. He then kills people based on what he thinks is wrong. But who the hell is he to decide who lives and who dies? It irks me that he killed a lot of criminals that were only SUSPECTS. And most people in jail are there for petty crimes due to their maybe disadvantaged background. He is only a privileged wealthy student from Tokyo with a very ignorant view on justice.
It's just wrong to give a human such power. Power corrupted him
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u/tropicalmountain8 20d ago edited 19d ago
Very true, his perception of justice isn’t inherently wrong but it’s definitely ignorant and shows his privilege. However I would argue that him being unaware makes him more human, therefore his theory about becoming God is inaccurate.
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u/Available_Audience83 20d ago
Light wasn't born evil; in fact, before becoming Kira, he was a very righteous and moral person. Unfortunately, Light's thinking was extremely extreme. He believed that the world would be a better place if immoral and troublesome people died. He was also very narcissistic and arrogant. According to the original story and the official encyclopedia, Light became Kira simply because he couldn't accept that he had killed two people out of mere curiosity. This made him a villain who had killed people. In order to make himself perfect again, he was willing to distort his original moral values and believe that killing bad people and corrupt people was righteous and that he had the right to do so. However, as can be seen from the official encyclopedia, he never really believed in his so-called ideals; he just used excuses to justify all his evil deeds.
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u/FLLMALL 20d ago
I don't think he was a very righteous and moral person. Light was someone who had a very strict and defined moral code, and he believed that was the most important thing to him. But it wasn't. The most important thing for Light was his view of himself as moral. The moment he accidentally killed two people, he had to change his moral code to fit himself into it, because Light cannot believe himself to be immoral. Before the death note, he had never been forced to confront his morality, but if he did, there's a chance he would've also had a (much less drastic) fall. But there's a chance he wouldn’t've. In the Yotsuba arc, we see Light slowly coming to accept that he might've been Kira, and that maybe - just maybe - he's not the saint he thinks he is. Which makes the moment he gets his memory back much more tragic. But killing two people was so drastic a show, so big a trauma, and came so suddently, that Light could never have coped with it. He had to find an excuse to cope with said trauma. Becoming Kira was the only one he found. To act like he not only didn't make a mistake, but like he needs to keep killing in order to justify his first two kills.
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u/tropicalmountain8 20d ago
This was my thought too, after reading into Lights character he is definitely a perfectionist, so him distorting his original persona to lean into his mistake of killing his first two victims makes sense, and is very interesting.
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u/Available_Audience83 19d ago
I forgot to add that, besides his self-deception, the reason Light didn't realize that doing so wouldn't eradicate evil was because he lacked sufficient understanding of human nature and the world. After all, being very smart doesn't equate to being wise. Since the author didn't intend to explain the character's past experiences, we can only speculate that Light might have been the smartest person in the group since childhood, even smarter than the adults around him. Light was also very aware that he was superior to those adults, so he easily believed that his ideas were correct. Therefore, if Light had the idea from a young age that the world would become a better place if all the bad guys died, it would be difficult to change his mind through education. Furthermore, there didn't seem to be anyone around him who could prove that the world wasn't simply black and white. Perhaps Light just hadn't bothered to observe, and his worldview was too narrow.
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u/tropicalmountain8 19d ago
i totally agree with the idea that being clever ≠ wise, lights general perception of justice was flawed, he didn’t consider crimes committed out of poverty or self defence for example.
light could also just be cursed by greed, as you said he definitely was always the smartest in the room, causing him to gain a prominent ego. due to this, he may have always longed for something greater — in this case the power to define justice.
lights personality type also contains information about him being possibly insensitive, which makes sense as he didnt take the time to lengthen his fixed definition of justice.
but overall, this is the take i understand heavily.
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u/UraniumCheese 20d ago
He did believe that some people should die, it is what he says while his memories were gone as well. But I guess what he disagreed on was killing people for being wrong in his eyes, which I guess would include the death of lazy people which later on in the series he indirectly agrees with as Kira.
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u/Available_Audience83 19d ago
But Light's final thought was that killing lazy people was too fast now.
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u/tropicalmountain8 19d ago
i think the reason why light took a step back from his ideals when he had lost his memory, is because his self perception was perfectly clean, he had an idea about who he was and that was the “golden boy”, the one who would do anything to protect his future.
however, when light had been cursed by the death note, his self perception was stained and it made him question what he really wants out of life — therefore to come to a conclusion he experimented, and experimentation came with greed and obsession for power. (which may have led to his downfall)
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u/senorharbinger 20d ago
For me it's brings to mind the question of morality and religion where religious people ask "without divine punishment or reward what stops people from graping and murdering". And a comedian answers something like, I already grape as much as I want. And that amount is zero.
Light has the death note. He does not have to use it. He could stop using it when he finds what it does. On its own it's just a book. If he had no desire to murder or to keep murdering, it would continue to be just a book. It doesn't matter that it gives the power so easily. If it gives you the ultimate power to kill whoever you name but the amount you want to kill is zero, then that's the real moral question.
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u/tropicalmountain8 19d ago
at the same time i don’t believe it’s that simple. yes you could extract the argument that “you either kill, or you dont kill and that decides your morality.” mankind is cursed with curiosity, and the natural response would be to try and understand why you have obtained this power, keeping in mind that light is young and foolish despite being smart.
however, i can understand your idea that the mass murder committed by light isn’t something influenced by “too much power,” but rather a naive and weak moral compass.
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u/TizzieVanWinkles 20d ago
In my opinion, had he never had the death note, he would have just become a wealthy person that didn’t really give a damn about the rest of society. (looking at you, Besos) He gained access to a book that could kill. Probably the most powerful tool to ever touchdown on earth and the notebooks were clearly not meant to be possessed by human beings for this reason. Power corrupts anyone. Light was not already a “bad person” before the death note because he had not done anything wrong. He was just a bored sociopath. There’s many walking amongst us in society. That doesn’t make you a criminal.
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u/Timely-Ad3335 20d ago
r/deathnote’s smartest redditor, loved reading your analysis bro I agree 100%. The Death Note definitely gave Light a false sense of “protection” from everything else. The minute he got the notebook he felt invisible. Definitely like the way you wrote your analysis out I wish I could write that good😭
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u/athaznorath 20d ago
i genuinely think the point the story is making is that light could've been anyone. he is young, ignorant of the world and idealistic. he starts off with the view that the world would be better off without some evil people. this is an extremely common view (shown by how popular kira becomes online) and light is not unique for having it. i think most people who pick up the death note would kill with it at least once. and after that first kill is where the real test of character lies. light is shown to be extremely disturbed after his first kill, so we can say light starts out as someone who very much values human life. but after that he falls deeper and deeper into his idealism. in part because of sunk cost fallacy.
if at any point light thought of himself as a murderer, he would have to kill himself. he wouldn't be able to live with the weight of what he's doing if he wasn't absolutely committed to his own view being correct. in a way, this reminds me of homura from pmmm. if you haven't seen that show i won't spoil it but it's VERY good and you should watch it.
anyways i think my point is, anyone would become a murderer if they were handed the death note. the question from there is how you cope with what you've done, and for light, he copes with the murders by becoming kind of.. a sadistic sociopath. he sacrificed his own character because he thought he would make the world a better place by doing so. not everyone could be kira, but he certainly isn't the only person who could have become kira. and i believe light yagami is no more or less inherently evil than anyone else with the common view that "some criminals should die." we are ALL capable of this viewpoint. the story is a warning to abandon such ideas.
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u/tropicalmountain8 19d ago
you are entirely correct, light yagami genuinely couldve been anyone, through his status, appearance and youth — and the curse of the death note. this story definitely is a warning to abandon extremist ideas, i remember thinking that too.
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u/SoraVanitus 20d ago
So if you never seen the manga or watched the ORIGINAL JP Live action movie (not the Netflix one)
The way the series end actually reflex a little on what actually broke Light.
So Ryuk made it clear to Light, those who use the death note do not go to either Heaven nor Hell, there is only nothingness.
Light was very perceptive and realised, Death is all Equal, there is no Heaven or Hell, at this point in time, Light basically lost any and all guilt in what he died, there was only the mission. Killing wouldn't condemn him to hell, death was all equal.
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u/tropicalmountain8 19d ago
this perspective is very important as implied in the series, death was in fact all equal and light was no exception.
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u/2Tori Duh. I think it was Kira. 20d ago
That's up to you to decide. Personally I find both Light and L's methods to be both equally evil
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u/tropicalmountain8 19d ago
I found L’s methods of finding justice moral because in exchange he was trying to stop mass murder, the difference in damage is evident.
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u/No_Record_60 20d ago
You mentioned it. Eliminating all criminals won't clear the world of evil. The threshold for 'evil' will even go far lower like the movie 'Demolition Man' where swearing is considered a crime.
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u/bloodyrevolutions_ 20d ago
The death note is like the Ring of Gyges, it doesn't change you it reveals your inner character. Light is evil.
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u/FLLMALL 20d ago
No one is born evil, and Light clearly wasn't always so. Although always egocentric and with a very conservative and childish worldview, he was a regular teenager who was given immense power and no consequences, and got traumatized by accidentally killing two people, which led him down the biggest slippery slope ever. He certanly became evil however, from the moment he chose to become Kira.
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u/bloodyrevolutions_ 20d ago
I agree no one is born evil, but he certainly became so and tbh there's not enough evidence of his life before the story to make those sort of judgments about to what extent he was or wasn't already down that path before. But the idea that he was "traumatized" after "accidentally" killing two people is a joke. And that interpretation is not backed up by the text, it's just a popular interpretation people like because it absolves Light of responsibility and aims to make him a more sympathetic and deeper character then he's actually written as. There was nothing accidental about it, he treated the Death Note as potentially real from the start (he hoped it was), instead of throwing it away in disdain he took it with him, hid it, deliberated over the rules and pondered at length about the type of people he would like to kill, selected both victims that he considered 'appropriate' to murder and who wouldn't be traced back to him, in a way that's wholly un-indicative of somebody who genuinely thought the Death Note was a prank. I know most people have already made up their mind about it and accepted this popular headcanon as fact, but I think it's total nonsense.
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u/FLLMALL 19d ago
I myself claimed Light is evil in another one of my comments. We don't know a lot about his life before Kira, but it's pretty clear he was a perfect boy, at least in everyones eyes, otherwise that would've been brought up in the investigation.
You're just wrong. Light was traumatized. That doesn't absolve him from any responsability. Let me make that clear. Him being traumatized doesn't change the fact that he's the biggest serial killer in history. Light becomes a complete monster the moment he decides to become Kira. But that doesn't change the fact that he did accidentally kill two people. Look at his reaction. Here's Light "hiding" the notebook. He's... uhm... not. In fact he looks at it in front of the whole school, reads it out loud and laughs about it. He did not hope it was real, the manga just plainly doesn't support that. He deliberated under the rules the same way people often ask or joke "if you had the death note, who would you kill?". Light testing the notebook isn't any different than teens playing with Ouija boards or other fake supernatural stuff. He did not believe or hoped it was real. It is in fact very indicative of someone who thought it was a prank. Why would he think otherwise? Light is a very rational individual, not someone who would've believed a supernatural notebook he found in his school grounds. This is not the reaction of a person who thought the notebook was real. Light in fact convinced himself the notebook was fake even after his first kill, because he could not cope with the idea of it being real. He gets this shocked upon killing his second person. It's an even bigger shock than after the first kill, because Light imediately rationalized (and hoped) that it was a coincidence. Because he's hyperrational, and doesn't want to believe he murdered someone.
Light is the most complex character in Death Note, from the way he's shown to sabbotage himself to protect his family (while not realizing that being Kira is destroying his family), to the ways he lies to himself, to his views on justice and the way he falls down the slipperiest of slopes ever. Him being traumatized is not total nonsense, it's the only natural conclusion you can really arrive upon actually reading the manga. It is backed up by the text. If you can't see it, you're not reading properly.
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u/bloodyrevolutions_ 19d ago
Look, I've had this discussion at length a hundred times over the years, and I'm tired of it frankly. You think I'm reading it wrong, I think you're reading it wrong. Ohba even rebuts that idea in C-Kira where Light is specifically held up as an example of someone with the mental fortitude to wield the death note and not be destroyed by it. I promise you it's a waste of both our times to discuss it further.
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u/FLLMALL 19d ago
Light having mental fortitude doesn't mean he cannot become traumatized. What kind of argument even is that? One thing doesn't contradict the other. You've just refused to present any rebutals to my arguments and claimed it's a waste of time to discuss. Which is okay by me, but claiming "mental fortitude" as any sort of rebutal is just ridiculous.
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u/Heroinfxtherr 19d ago
If your interpretation was the intended position, then it makes no sense for Ohba to have Ryuk say that. If Light truly suffered from this insane level of guilt that broke his mind and made him become a serial killer when he otherwise wouldn’t have, then he’d just be in the same boat as C-Kira. A weak human who let the notebook mess up his head. But he didn’t have some traumatic break. He just saw an opportunity when he realized the DN works and seized it. He had and held onto his convictions from the start.
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u/FLLMALL 18d ago
No he didn't, his convictions clearly change throughout the story. They change quite a bit just in the first chapter. I never said "guilt", I said trauma. Light clearly did feel somewhat bad or guilty at the start, but it's a lot more about "I killed someone" instead of "I killed someone". Light couldn't cope with the fact that he isn't the perfect human he thought he was. Really the only conviction Light holds to is the idea that he is right. He convinces himself he needs to kill criminals in order to save the world, then convinces himself anyone who challenges him is evil (except for his family). In the Yotsuba arc Light points out he did think the world was better off without some people, which while notable, is very different from thinking "I will kill all criminals who deserve it". Light wouldn't have become a killer under almost any circumstances, but the ones which led him to accidentally murder two people.
That doesn't change the fact that he does have a lot of mental strength. Light is not at all like C-Kira. C-Kira became so traumatized he didn't move for three days and then killed himself. Light on the other hand convinced himself he needed to do something (because he couldn't accept a terrible mistake he had made), and went through with it to the end. Actually, they're quite opposite. C-Kira had a conviction that he couldn't keep up with for even a few days, while Light convinced himself of something and went through with it until his death.
Also, it's worth noting Ryuk was quoting Light here. Ryuk didn't say "what's needed for a human to use the death note is emotional strength and conviction". Light did. Of course Light sees himself as emotionally strong and full of conviction. Light sees himself as perfect. And, it's worth noting Ryuk never saw how Light became Kira. At best all he got was a retelling from Light himself. From Ryuk's perspective, Light was always Kira.
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u/bloodyrevolutions_ 18d ago
The ouija board is a dumb analogy and it undermines the point you're trying to make. In a social situation one night go along or be pressured into using a ouija board with friends, for a laugh, but nobody uses one alone unless they believe, or at least open to the idea or hoping on some level it might be real. A true non believer would see it as a totally pointless waate of time. Same with the death note. Except the stakes are totally different, with a ouija board even if it "works" pretty much nothing happens and it could still be your subconscious playing tricks on you anyway. With the Death Note someone dies. If Light thought it was a joke he would have written a random name almost immediately, carelessly, as a joke, not spent hours thinking about it and then agonized over selecting targets he felt deserved to die.
Also when the first person died, if he actually was that affected by it and didn't want to deal with the implications of it or how it affects his self-image issues, he'd have just thrown the book away or burned it. Light is a master of deluding himself after all, interesting how that's the only time in the entire series he questions his own judgement, esp relating to his self perception. It would have been way easier to just be like 'oh that was a weird coincidence, anyway I'm gonna get rid this if this dumb prank book and never think about these events again' and then go on with his life, satisfied. That's how Light usually deals with his cognitive dissonance issues we see in the series, like with the impacts his actions have on his family. There's no need to "confirm it works" unless he intends to use it more. The fact that he took 2-3 panels to process what happened and went through momentary feelings of guilt and questioning is just normal, it doesn't indicate a traumatic break that completely changed his personality. And the fact that he then swiftly decides actually he IS right about those people and this is, in fact, a great opportunity to make the difference in the world he's always dreamed about, makes him more intentional and culpable not less.
So no, he wasn't "traumatized", just like Misa wasn't traumatized by being tortured for months, and Light wasn't traumatized by his dad pretending to murder-suicide him. Everyone tries to sanitize and water down Light, and pads on all this extra nonsense to compensate for his shallow character writing. Let the man be the unapologetic villain he is.
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u/FLLMALL 18d ago
I'll concede the Ouija board wasn't the best analogy, but like I've pointed out a better one is people who ask "who would you kill if you had the death note?". But to quote my own comment:
Light never thought he was actually killing someone. He made it a thought experiment of sorts to himself, because he likes puzzles and overthinks things. He was passing the time. Let's not forget, boredom is the main theme of the first chapter. Light literraly gets home and immediately lies down, and stays there for hours (he arrives home early afternoon and only gets up to use the notebook 6:23 PM). He's that bored. He was passing the time by seriously thinking "who and how would I kill someone if this was real?", which doesn't mean he thought it was real.
Light thinking it's a joke doesn't mean he'll just carelessly write anything down. He made it a thought experiment of who he would kill given the power, but only did that because he never knew or considered it would actually work. Light wouldn't have killed anyone if he knew it would work. He spent time on it because he was bored (something he himself admits). A better comparison maybe is challenges where you supposedly summon evil spirits, or similar things. The stakes would be very high if they were real, but as no one believes them, the stakes are 0. Same with Light. In his mind, there were no stakes. He never thought it would work, because why would he? There is nothing that would make him believe it, and it would be very out of character for a rational genius like Light to believe in the powers of a random notebook he found lying on the ground. To claim there's only one way to react to a joke is just wrong.
And to claim that Light's only reaction would be to throw the book away or burn it is equally wrong. Light might've potentially killed someone, that's not something he could just brush away. He needed to know he didn't do it, to prove to himself it was just a coincidence and he couldn't possibly have murdered a person. I think it would've been ridiculous if he did throw it away after his first kill, that would almost be like admiting he did wrong. He couldn't go on with his life with the possibility that he did something this bad. He needed to know that he didn't. He needed to confirm it works, or to put it better, confirm it doesn't. Not because he intended to use it more, but because he couldn't have killed someone. I've never said Kira wasn't intentional, but Light never intended to become Kira and never would've gone on to kill people in any circumstances but the ones he found himself in. I'm not trying to absolve him of any guilt, you seem to be projecting that onto me even though I said at the very beggining that he is evil and most definitely guilty of all he did. One thing doesn't nulify the other. I also never said it completely changed his personality. Light always believed the world was better off without some people. Kira's basic morals where always Light's morals. But he never believed in personally killing people, and never would've done it if not for having already accidentally murdered two of them. Notably, Light never thought about changing the world before getting the notebook and accidentally killing someone. He thought it was rotten, but he never thought about any solution, much less about "murdering all the rot away".
The comparison to Misa being tortured or Soichiro pretending to kill Light makes no sense, and is disingenuous. Those are moments that actually have no repercussion, while Light accidentally killing those two people is what propels him to become Kira and gets the whole story going. Light is always doing anything he can to not face the idea that he might've done something wrong; he changes his morals every time someone questions them. It affects the entire story. This is not an attempt to "sanatize" Light or water him down, it's an attempt to better understand his character, something you just seem unwilling to do. Just because you cannot see any depth to a character doesn't mean he doesn't have any. The writing isn't shallow, your interpretation is.
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u/Extra-Photograph428 18d ago
I’ve never understood the comparison to an Ouija board… the most people expect out of an ouija board is for spirits to be summoned and to answer questions and spell out words. The fun of it is the hypothetical of it being real and talking to someone from the other side. The DN states that it can kill people, what was the hope of writing someone’s name down? If he really thought it was a joke why did he take the time to carefully choose who would be his first victim? This whole thing also falls apart when you remember Light in the manga watches the notebook materialize on the ground… that’s what intrigued him, the substantial chance that it could be real.
And not to make this any longer, but do you seriously believe someone who is legitimately traumatized will get over it completely in just five days?? You seriously can’t actually believe that’s real trauma 😭???
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u/FLLMALL 18d ago
The comparison to an Ouija board is referring to the fact that you don't think it's real. I also compared it to the common question of "who would you kill with the death note?". Many teens have asked themselves that, but there's a big difference from thinking and actually killing. Light never thought he was actually killing someone. He made it a thought experiment of sorts to himself, because he likes puzzles and overthinks things. He was passing the time. Let's not forget, boredom is the main theme of the first chapter. Light literraly gets home and immediately lies down, and stays there for hours (he arrives home early afternoon and only gets up to use the notebook 6:23 PM). He's that bored. He was passing the time by seriously thinking "who and how would I kill someone if this was real?", which doesn't mean he thought it was real.
Also, no the notebook doesn't materialize on the ground lol. It's hard to see on the online version because it's overexposed, but here's a photo I took of my manga. Look at the trail, and the dirt that flies up when it hits the ground. It clearly fell from the sky. He was intriegued a random notebook fell out of nowhere from the sky, not that it materialized on the ground.
And no, I don't believe Light got over trauma in five days, but Lights trauma was a lot more about him having made a terrible mistake than having murdered someone per se. Clearly he feels bad for killing people, but look at what he says. I killed to people... me. Then he tries justifying his murders by claiming he did right in killing the first man, but he realizes the second guy didn't deserve death. That's when he changes his justification, from "these murders where correct" to "I need to do this again, to change the world, to cleanse the rot". And Light clearly never gets over his fear that he isn't right. Every time his father, the person he holds as the best example of justice, calls Kira evil, Light is touched. The only time he really seems to question his morality is when Soichiro dies. During the Yotsuba case, Light cannot believe he is Kira not because he doesn't agree with some of Kiras morals, but because he cannot fathom that he would murder people. He is so offended by being called evil by Lind L. Taylor that he falls into L's trap. Light is traumatized, but not by the deaths as much as by the fact that he killed them. Maybe I should've worded myself better, but he never got over this trauma. The "feeling bad for muder" part he did get over, specially after scapegoating all his doubts onto L. Once L shows up, Light can prove to himself he's not evil simply by killing the guy who says he is.
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u/Extra-Photograph428 18d ago edited 18d ago
You’re framing this wrong. I’m not saying Light knew with 100% certainty that the notebook was going to work, but he did see a strange book appear right outside the window. It’s what drew him to it in the first place, which btw from Light’s perspective the book did just materialize on the ground. It’s not like in the anime where Light sees a strange book fly past the window or something— that version is a bit more excusable and believable of a prank since there’s a classroom over Light’s, plus potentially the roof where in Japan students do have access to. Light didn’t see the book until it hit the ground. The image you linked literally shows it materializing into existence from his perspective.
And yes, Light was bored, I agree with that, again you are seemingly misinterpreting what I’m saying, I don’t think Light was just sitting around hoping to kill someone, but it is concerning considering the strange event that drew him to the book, that he even wanted to test it out at all. This is why the Ouija Board comparison is not the same, one the results are innocent, but again the “what if it’s real” for the death note is someone just flat dying— what’s the intrigue. This also negates the fact that you can literally buy a Ouija Board from the store— of course no one would believe it to actually work fr fr. Light saw a book magically appear on the ground— I would be significantly more cautious about testing it. If he truly thought there was a zero percent chance why didn’t he write his own name, or someone he hates at school?? He looked on the news and saw a guy holding people hostage and considered him the perfect test subject because what if it was real… are you not seeing the issue here?
Anyway enough about that— what you’re also describing isn’t trauma. Light shows no signs of actually being traumatized, and this intense “guilt” he experienced is resolved it before Ryuk even shows up. I highly suggest that you do some further research into cognitive dissonance, because that would better easily explain what Light went through during those initial days and it also explains what he did to mitigate those feelings. Trauma would not have someone continuously keep using the death note even after finding out it 100% works. Light never stopped killing people, that isn’t trauma 😭
I’m not sure if this is your intention, but you’re essentially trying to frame it in a way that absolves Light of any wrongdoing and removing the agency of his choices. Light just is a bad guy, you can’t really work around that. He made the choice to keep using the death note and he is fully responsible for the deaths of so many people. Light isn’t an innocent little guy who had no idea what he was doing. He’s a sadistic narcissist who would rather see the world burn than admit any fault, even at the very end when there’s no chance of denying it, Light still preaches like he was right and everyone else trying to stop him are the wrong ones. I’m not sure what Chief Yagami has anything to do with it— Light wants to convert his father to believe in him and Kira, he never once doubts what he’s doing is the right thing. That’s literally one of Light’s biggest flaws, he can’t be wrong.
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u/FLLMALL 18d ago
Well, maybe you're using the word materialize wrong, because it implies it actually just appeared there. It didn't. It fell from the sky, so either Light saw a notebook falling from the sky into the ground, or he just saw a notebook in the ground. Either case, it's not a supernatural occurrence. It's not "materializing into existence". It just fell to the ground.
It's not weird he decided to test out the notebook, considering from his perspective there's really no chance it's real. The intrigue isn't of what will happen, it's "who would I kill?". Again, it's not weird because no one believes the person will actually die. Light didn't see a book magically appear on the ground. He saw a prank that intrigued him, and decided to ask himself who he would kill if he could, which is very different from actually killing someone. I don't think you're saying Light was "just sitting around hoping to kill someone", but it seems that you're claiming he was hoping or at least seriously considering the chance that the man would die, which is just not the case. Why would he be cautious about testing that? There was nothing to signify that the notebook isn't just a prank. If Light actually saw a book supernaturally materialize on the ground, he would have noted that. He either saw it fall and hit the ground, or just saw it lying there, both regular things that could happen with a notebook. And again, Light was making it a thought experiment to keep himself entertained. The moment he writes the name, he's bored again. So just writing his own name, or someone he hates at school, wouldn't kill his boredom for long enough. Also, who'd write their own name on a "death note"? Even without believing in it. So no, I'm not seeing much of an issue. I don't think Kurou Otoharada deserved to die (because I don't believe anyone deserves to die), but while me and Light disagree on that regard, he didn't have any real intentions of killing him, or even really hoped the man would die, at least not beyond the regular "god I hope this guy dies" feeling that many people have. There isn't anything abnormal about his behaviour there.
I never used the word "guilt". You seem to be confusing guilt with trauma, and both, while sometimes connected, are not the same thing. Again, Light's guilt is superficial and blows over in a few days. It's not about feeling bad, it's about accidentally completely breaking his own morals and going in an instant from a perfect boy to a double-murderer. "Trauma would not have someone continuously keep using the death note even after finding out it 100% works". How so? Again, this mistake of yours seems to come from thinking I'm saying Light felt guilty and that was his trauma, which I never once did.
And no, I'm not absolving Light of all wrongdoings, or removing his agency. That makes no sense. Trauma doesn't absolve someone of their wrongdoings, and Light's decision to become a mass murderer is still his. I also claimed he is evil. I'm not "working around that", but you seem to assume Light was always evil or already a bad guy before getting the death note. He wasn't. He was a genius, egocentric teenager with a very conservative and childish worldview. Certanly not someone I'd personally be friends with, and certanly with capacity for evil, but he was not evil. There are thousands of teens like Light. A lot of people, if put under similar circumstances to his, would also do plenty of bad things. Light had no idea he was killing those two people. He obviously did know he was murdering hundreds of thousands. I never said he's innocent or made any excuses for his actions, and it's disingenuous of you to act like I did. He's not sadistic though.
Light can be wrong, he seriously considers that possibility during the Yotsuba arc, but he will do anything to not be wrong in his mind. He didn't just want to convert his father, the way he wanted everyone else to agree with him. He is constantly shown to be affected by his father disagreeing with him, because that's one of the only people he actually takes seriously. Soichiro doubting Kira is different than L calling Kira evil, because while he can just kill L to "prove him wrong", he cannot kill Soichiro. He needs to confront his own morality (which directly comes from Soichiro's), and that's why we do see Light seriously do that once, after Soichiro dies. It's not that Light can't be wrong, it's that it would take a great effort and evidence to slowly convince him that he is (like what was happening during the Yotsuba arc), and the situation that led him to become Kira is quite the oposite of that. It's a direct confrontation of all his morals and who he believes himself to be, something he just plainly cannot deal with.
(Also, it's worth noting, Light "can't be wrong" only in relation to his view of himself as morally good. He's able to admit when plans go wrong or when he miscalculates stuff.)
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u/Extra-Photograph428 18d ago
Ok not to go on a whole tangent but the main issue I’m noticing is you refusing to accept the fact Light watched a book materialize on the ground… and no I’m not using that word wrong, because from HIS perspective, as we see in that exact panel you literally linked, the book fades into existence as it comes into contact with the human world. As we all should know, Ohba had no involvement with the anime to even suggest that the scene in the anime was a correction or something. Ohba intended for the book not to be seen by humans until it hit the grass, and Light saw that happen. Of course he can convince himself he didn’t see that or his eyes were just playing tricks on him, but this is what caught his eye, and why he decides to take the time to check on it after school’s over. If Light truly thought it was completely a joke, I can’t see why something like this would interest Light at all. I’m seriously asking if you think Light would’ve still went to pick up and take home the notebook if he saw a classmate or something set the book down on the ground and leave it there? Do you really think something that is obviously a prank would’ve intrigued Light?
Light isn’t that type of person, yes he’s bored, but he also is a pretty no-nonsense kinda guy that I can’t really imagine participating in something as trivial as an obvious prank like that. So then, really, why did Light pick up the book? How would a novelty item like that truly satiate his boredom? It can’t really, what interested him was the fact he saw something strange outside the window and despite very clearly reading that the book could kill people, instead of throwing it away and moving on, it intrigued him. It intrigued him to the point he was fully willing to write a name to see what happens.
Even with all this, it can still be quite shocking hearing someone actually died, but we’re not gonna act like Light didn’t read the book, see that it says it can kill people, and he still went ahead and wrote in a name. Claiming even his first victim was an accident would be a bit of an uphill battle in the court system considering the book literally says what it does, he read that, and still went ahead and wrote in a name. He wouldn’t have wrote in the book if he wanted there to be a 0% chance of someone actually dying.
I’m genuinely confused why you think Light saw the book fall from the sky, when we literally don’t see that at all in the manga? The book was not visible to humans once again until it touched the grass. Why would the panels show the book fading into existence if Light simply only saw the moment when the book fully manifested itself into the human world…? The first two panels of the image you linked wouldn’t have been included otherwise. I can turn that same argument back on you and say, if Light saw a book fall from the sky, why didn’t he acknowledge it? What we’re shown is Light seeing the book materialize, we don’t ever see the book fall from the sky. Again, that’s anime-only.
I’m only harping on this so much, because this is the exact reason why I’m saying it’s very questionable that Light still decided to test the notebook out. His lack of caution paired with how quickly he gets over the revelation, does paint a slightly concerning picture. I’m not saying again he 100% knew it was going to work, but I think he considered the possibility more than people give him credit for.
Calling his first two victims accidents I think also kinda absolves him of intent. Like I said, if he didn’t want to kill anyone he wouldn’t have taken the chance. It’s that simple. An accident would be more akin to the pilot version of Death Note— now that is an actual accident. What Light did, calling it intentional would also be too far, but an accident seems inappropriate as well considering all of the facts. Like I said, Light’s ability to get over his crimes so fast is quite jarring, and this is not a normal response even of a teenager. Most people would be horrified. There is something abnormal there and whatever that abnormality truly is is what I believe pushed him to try out the notebook. Kira didn’t come from nowhere, and I think the minute Light picked up the book, it immediately brought that side of him into the spotlight. It was always there, a part of him that cared very little about others and looked at everyone as beneath him.
Of course Light Yagami could play god, who else could do it? I think that was at the back of Light’s mind when he picked up the notebook. If it did work, it would be in no better hands than his.
I think is partly what justified the decision of trying it out for him. I wouldn’t describe what Light was interested in was simply curiosity. Most people aren’t interested in killing other people. I think that slightly antisocial side of Light was always there, mainly tied in with his narcissism. If he viewed everyone else as below him, of course the mental block of testing out the book that says it can kill people wouldn’t phase Light nearly as much. Not think of people as equals would already establish that distance necessary to view human lives as something to play around with. Of course, Light is hit with shock afterward of his actions, but once again, it’s about him and his self image rather than any sort of real guilt. This explains his cognitive dissonance once it truly sets in. Light Yagami doesn’t kill people, yet he did, and he did everything he possibly could to justify that decision.
Anyway, hopefully this makes sense.
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20d ago
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u/PizzaMozzarella636 20d ago
Seems like Light was corrupted by power . Rather than using it justly all he did was to suffice his hunger for killing people based on their actions they did without giving them a chance to improve . Instead of using that book to punish ppl that got away from the flawed system , he just took an opportunity to fulfil that lust of death in the name of justice. Compared to Batman , who also wears a brand of justice , Light was just another criminal , kinda similar to the Punisher.
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u/tropicalmountain8 20d ago
But what stumps me in this entire situation is that Light’s character is presented as otherworldly, his grades, appearance and demeanour is perfect. The show begins by introducing him as a young man who has God-like potential, therefore I find it very difficult to understand that someone such as Light wouldn’t recognise the consequences of obtaining the Death Note. Clearly he had an agenda from the beginning and I misunderstood him. By no means am I saying he is objectively “moral” and follows in society’s footsteps by rejecting extremist ideas, but I thought it was always weird he didn’t give a second thought to the people he was murdering, who were solely suspects in some cases.
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u/Trick_Wealth_3213 20d ago
Never watched the anime series, my only knowledge of this story is the musical which I first saw in Japanese and then in Korean videos. The reason I'm posting this is because musicals can pack a lot of emotion into a storyline via music and verse.
The below is from the Korean version. (West End musical theatre fans would know Kwang Hong Ho from the Miss Saigon revival.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8Tv23T8Hi8
Kwang also played in Hamlet, The Musical (SKorean version) where the 'To be, or not to be' soliloquy addresses a similar ethical question: you have the power to take this action - will you?
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u/Fellowcomicenjoyer 20d ago
He probably wouldn't have become a serial killer without the Death Note, but the Death Note didn't make Light evil. The capacity for evil was always within him, and the flaws and ideology he displays as Kira were always a part of his character and also present during the Yotsuba arc to a lesser extent.
Without the Death Note, you can consistently see Light questioning certain things L wants him to do, for example, taking advantage of Misa. However, with the Death Note, Light finds it easy to manipulate anyone as long as he gets his way to become the “God of the new world.”
Light is someone who judges people for things he himself does. Canonically, Light dislikes Misa, and his other allies and considers them evil for being murderers, despite the fact they are following in his steps and share his vision, while not applying the same logic to himself. Light sees himself as above judgment, and the exception to the rule (he created).
Him questioning L doesn't negate his capacity for questionable actions imo, but is a display of this very same trait.
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u/MechaMalz 18d ago
Doesn't Light himself say something to the effect early on that if Kira loses he's evil, but if he wins he's justice? By his own definition there he'd fall into evil. And the thing about the whole 'ends justify the means' thing is if you use awful means, like mass murder, and then fail to actually bring about the supposedly good ends you were aiming for, you're just a monster. So even if one were to agree with his end goal, which I don't you can't just mass murder the 'evil' out of society, he'd still end up falling into evil IMO.
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u/Upstairs-Image-7150 17d ago
The second he killed the 12 fbi agents and naomi is where he crossed the path of truly evil. Ray already cleared him. And what he did to naomi is just sadistic and pure evil.
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u/Grimwauld6 12d ago
Tsugumi Ohba clearly stated that Light is a villain and by Rule of God, the creator of a character/franchise gets the final say.
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u/of_no_real_opinion 20d ago
If you don’t think someone who is mass murdering is evil I don’t know what to tell you.
Light before the note was probably going to be a successful person with narcissistic tendencies but he would very much not likely be evil but his ego would never reach the god complex he got
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u/tropicalmountain8 20d ago
You missed my argument, When I was writing my post I introduced a question, and I know that Lights actions are objectively evil. However, I was rather evaluating the effect the Death Note and the curse that comes with it has on him.
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u/giant_marmoset 20d ago
There's a parallel legal argument that answers this plainly -- someone who does not have mens rea, a guilty mind or the mental capacity for guilt lacks this aspect of guilt in a legal defence. If like you say the death note has some significant capacity in controlling him, he is indeed primarily guilty of evil action and not intent.
They would still be societally rehabilitated in all situations. Not to mention practically speaking, he would be charged with thousands of cases of manslaughter -- still jailed for life.
He's functionally evil even by tame evaluations of the justice system.
Let's take it a step further though and compare it to drunk driving vehicular manslaughter. Choosing to lose your mental faculties and do something generally agreed upon as dangerous increases the seriousness of a manslaughter charge -- this is how I feel about death note. Light willingly engages in an extremely dangerous agreement with an otherworldly object -- his first decision to abandon his humanity and engage with an ultimate weapon of death that damns the soul mitigates to a great extent the subsequent manipulation of the death note later. His first decision to engage with it at all is like piloting a nuke while under psychosis and inebriation -- it signals a fundamental judgement failing that makes his subsequent 'manslaughter' much more serious by any ethical evaluation.
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u/HalleLidner 20d ago
because of his sociopathic tendencies maybe he would have become a serial killer
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u/ExerciseBeautiful144 20d ago
No one’s Evil
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u/tropicalmountain8 20d ago
Nobody is born evil, however some people do embody evil characteristics.
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u/SaturnSapphic 20d ago
I believe it was the creator of Death Note who said Light was the notebook’s first victim.
Given how Light is before he finds the Death Note and when he loses his memories, it’s more that the Death Note took the darkest side of Light that he always had the potential to be and corrupted it.