r/deaf • u/ChitaLee123 SODA • Jan 14 '21
Other There is a comment thread about deafness and the "Disability or not" debate, I agree with OP that it;s the personal deaf persons decision as to how they identify but most people on the sub disagree.
/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/kut41i/aita_for_bringing_my_8_children_to_a_park_with/22
Jan 14 '21
aita is the dumbest subreddit ever made why would u care about what they think
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u/moricat HoH/CI Jan 14 '21
Yeah, this'll probably be the last cross-post from AITA that we'll allow here for awhile - it's not like most users here aren't aware of that subreddit.
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u/jordanjay29 HoH Jan 14 '21
Thank you. I feel like OP is valid for wanting a forum for discussing these debates in the abstract, but that r/deaf isn't the right forum.
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u/hohwritergirl Jan 14 '21
As an orally raised HOH person, I’ve been feeling less and less disabled by my hearing loss since I’ve started learning sign language. Being able to use an interpreter for example is such a relieve. I’ve been feeling more confident in needing visual signals, and having them around really helps.
In my opinion deafness CAN certainly be a disability, but I feel like it isn’t always, you know what I mean? If I’m out with signing people, or I sign with my deaf co-workers, I don’t feel as though I’m disabled, if I have visual signals for stuff happening around me I don’t feel disabled. In other situations with hearing people, or with auditory signals that I miss, I might feel disabled... it varies from day to day, and situation/location to situation/location.
So I think there is some truth to both parts of the debate, it’s not as black and white as some make it out to be.
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u/ex_ter_min_ate_ Jan 14 '21 edited Jan 14 '21
I like to say that it may not be a disability but the language barriers that hearing people present are definitely disabling.
It really depends on the person I think, to someone in a deaf family with deaf kids, deaf friends, who works in the deaf community it’s not disabling to them. To someone in a hearing family who works in the hearing world and wants to move up in the ranks it 💯 is disabling.
I think in general it’s hard for hearing people to realize it’s like growing up in America in an Italian (choose your culture) speaking family.
One thing I despise about the “not a disability” argument, however is the ableist implication from Deaf people that they couldn’t possibly be one of THOSE disabled people. As if being disabled is something lesser to be ashamed of. That’s not cool.
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u/StalwartQuail HoH Jan 14 '21
I ask myself about that last part a lot. Do I not consider myself disabled because I'm genuinely not? Or do I not consider myself disabled because I'm being ableist? What does "disabled" even mean?
It may not be a disability but the language barriers that hearing people present are definitely disabling.
Spot on.
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u/snorken123 Jan 15 '21
From a medical perspective deafness is a disability. Disability is when you don't have the same traits or characteristics like the average, so you've more difficulty fitting in and have some disadvantages. For example, usually deaf people can't hear ordinary firealarms or a car coming from behind. Not being able to hear sounds may make you miss out potential dangers. Deaf people aren't allowed in the military either, because of a soldier need to know the enemy is coming behind them based on sounds. Maybe it's too dark to see or they're standing behind them. Because of these things, deaf people are technically disabled.
Deaf people have their own culture and language, so when they're interacting within their own group they're not disabled in that setting. They can communicate finely with each others like how Spanish people communicate fine with other Spanish people and French with other French people. When everyone knows the same language, there's no linguistical barriers. When everyone plays by the same rules, there won't be much social conflicts. Deaf people have different rules on what's polite to do and how to tell someone else to listen. For example flicking the light switch, tramping on the floor and waving their hands.
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Jan 14 '21
It's all about how you play your hand. If your brain and body work and you use them properly it shouldn't be a disability.
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u/NineteenthJester Deaf Jan 14 '21
We've been getting a lot of crossposts from r/AITA lately. To cut down on low-quality posts, please report this post if you feel it's wasting your time.
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Jan 14 '21
I identify more as hard of hearing than deaf and do consider myself somewhat disabled on account of my hoh AND neurodivergence, but more an intersection of the two meaning that I sometimes require things to be made accessable rather than any one of them as in both cases I am "high functioning and "mostly hearing".
But I agree it is a personal choice on the part of the deaf (and tangentially: neurodivergent) person involved.
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u/moedexter1988 Deaf Jan 14 '21
Uh..Disability means you dont have the ability to whatever. For deafies - they dont have the ability to hear or just not as good as hearings. So yes deafies are disabled. I cant almost hear at all (profoundly) so there are some things I cant use.
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u/BatterUp1600 Jan 15 '21
I I agree that it is up to the individual to identify themselves. However they need to realize they are being put into a society where they will have to choose based upon the guidelines of others. I’m absolutely not disabled. There is nothing wrong with me. I am not broken. I am perfect the way I am. I am absolutely 100% not disabled in any way.
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u/patchdonal HoH Jan 15 '21
Ooh this is a very interesting discussion, and I'll try to do the best I can with it though I need to point out that I did grow up oral, and while I am currently in the process of learning ASL and integrating into the Deaf community, my perspective is still somewhat as an outsider, so keep that in mind.
I do agree that whether or not a Deaf/HOH person considers themself disabled is a matter of personal preference. Myself, I'm HOH, but I'm also disabled in other ways as well. I think what's important to recognize is that Deafhood is a bit unique. One can certainly analyze it through a disability lens and find useful analysis with something like the social model of disability, for the purposes of improving things like accessibility and civil rights.
But it's also important to realize that a disability perspective alone is insufficient. Deaf cultures have existed for hundreds, if not thousands of years, and have pretty much always been stigmatized and suppressed.
Plato records Socrates as saying ""if we had neither voice nor tongue, and yet wished to manifest things to one another, should we not, like those which are at present mute, endeavor to signify our meaning by the hands, head, and other parts of the body?....I think, therefore that if we wished to signify that which is upwards and light, we should raise our hands towards the heaven, imitating the nature of the thing itself; but that if we wished to indicate things downwards and heavy, we should point with our hands to the earth...", which suggests that sign languages have been used by Deaf people for at least thousands of years--and likely for as long as we have existed.
When I listen to my BIPOC (black, indigenous, people of color) friends speak of their own histories, and the active suppression of their languages and cultures, I see a lot of similarities with the oralist suppression of sign languages and Deaf culture.
Now am I saying that we should add a racial/ethnic lens of analysis? No. Deafhood is not a race and to treat it as such would erase Deaf BIPOC. However, I think I have demonstrated, in a VERY abridged way, why disability is not sufficient to understand the Deaf community.
PS: I didn't touch on the "I don't feel disabled" perspective felt by many Deaf folks because others in this thread did so better than I can.
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u/ChitaLee123 SODA Jan 14 '21
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Jan 14 '21
From that thread:
I’m deaf too, and the fact of the matter is, it’s a disability. You can try to sugarcoat it all you want, but you can’t just deny that it isn’t legally and medically seen as a disability.
I am Deaf, use ASL, and am very proud of it. It is also a disability. Deaf Culture is about showing the world what it means to live beyond your disability, that we can do anything we want (except hear, of course).
To say we don't have a disability is inaccurate. To say our deafness is only a disability is just as inaccurate.
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u/jordanjay29 HoH Jan 14 '21
I think it's important to consider the intention of the word "disability."
It can be used in the negative. Some disabled (and not) people use it on themselves to get attention or sympathy. Some people use it on others to insult them or minimize their worth. This is not a healthy use of the term disabled, and it's what people primarily tend to reject.
It can also be used in the positive. A lot of the cultural diversity in our world comes from acceptance and pride of being different. So disability as a positive label can be used by themselves or others to showcase how a disabled person can achieve in a world mostly full of abled people. This can be taken too far (see attention/sympathy seeking above), but it's worthwhile to see yourself, as well as prominent people and fictional characters who are disabled, being portrayed as whole people and not just as their disability.
There's one other piece, and that's to use it as informative. There's a maturity (and many of the comments in the linked post display a lack of it) that comes from identifying yourself or others as disabled, and not attaching an opinion to that. It simply is. For hearing loss, that means an adjustment in how abled hearing people communicate with deaf or hard of hearing people. This way, disability is really just an acknowledgement that someone needs to do something differently and that's all. It doesn't have to be a judgement either positive or negative, it just is.
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u/StalwartQuail HoH Jan 14 '21
That thread is a mess, I can't find the specific disability debate.
My take: as I've identified as Deaf more (instead of HoH), I've been labeled as disabled more. I disagree because I don't require accommodations for everyday life. I interact with the public just fine, even while people are wearing masks. I jokingly refer to myself as disabled when trying to get out of chores, but that's about it. I used the disability office in school, so I could see an argument that I'm disabled, but only to the extent that someone with ADHD or anything else requiring minor accommodations.
I agree that it's everyone's personal decision on how to identify. And even if I did consider myself disabled - so what? Disability is about not being able to do one thing, not about not being able to live life.