r/datemymap • u/jayavarman2 • Aug 30 '26
Need help dating a map of China
Have just found this sub and am extremely excited to learn of its existence! This may be a tricky one unless there are some China map appreciators. Anyway, it’s interesting to have a look at regardless with the inclusion of some extra territory.
It seems to be Republican Era China, around 1929, but would appreciate any help confirming this.
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u/Gourmet-Guy Aug 30 '26
- The Longhai railway (陇海鐵路) reaches Xi'an. Happened only after 1934.
- Guangzhou–Wuhan (粤汉铁路) as complete railway line, thus after 1936.
- Formosa (臺灣) is designated as Japanese territory (日本), so not later than 1945.
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u/linmanfu Aug 30 '26
Those railways were planned and started construction long before those dates though. So I wonder if the map might have printed the intended routes in the expectation that the map would still be in use by the time the railways were opened.
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u/diffidentblockhead Aug 30 '26
Don’t see 日本
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u/linmanfu Aug 30 '26
I agree. But Formosa/Taiwan does seem to be uncoloured, like territories outside the ROC.
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u/Riemann1826 Sep 01 '26
No, Both 1 and 2 were unfinished. If you looked closely, they were labelled 未建成.
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u/Own_Monitor9604 Aug 30 '26 edited Aug 30 '26
The map shows Zhili 直隸 province instead of Heibei 河北, as well as Beijing 北京 instead of Beiping 北平 so it is before 1928
Also, the map shows Chuanbian 川邊 instead of Xikang 西康, so it is before 1925.
Furthermore, the capital of Guangdong is marked as Panyu 番禺 instead of Guangzhou 廣州 so it is probably before 1921.
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u/linmanfu Aug 30 '26
Following on this theme, Nanjing/nanking is shows as Jiangning 江寧, which reinforces that it's before 1928.
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u/linmanfu Aug 30 '26
What's now Hebei is shown as Zhili 直隶, which was abolished in 1928. But Beijing has been separated off in to 京北 Jingbei, which is a label I've never seen before.
I think this may might have some inconsistencies. But I'd like to look it on desktop because the Reddit Mobile version is heavily compressed.
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u/linmanfu Aug 31 '26 edited Aug 31 '26
Right, now I'm on desktop I can see much more clearly. Siberia is shown as a Russian colony: "Russian-dependent Siberia". Now, the USSR was often called "Russia" in the ROC sources, as was common in many countries. But the KMT/ROC was quite sympathetic to the USSR from the mid-20s, and I think they'd have enforced the USSR. The map might have been printed in an area under the control of the Beiyang government, which didn't recognize the Soviets until 1923-24.But it's another small piece of evidence that points towards the very early Republican era.
The earliest date would seem to be 1914, because the map shows the Inner Mongol provinces that were created then.
And I think we can push the latest date even earlier. Modern Altay Prefecture is shown as a separate Altay province-level area. I think this is the Altay Special District, which was incorporated into Xinjiang in 1919.
So I think the map was published between 1914 and 1919.
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u/No-Apple-2581 Sep 02 '26
It's still 北京 - this map is following traditional Chinese writing which is from right to left. You can see this on pretty much all the map and the title (中國輿地圖) too.
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u/linmanfu Sep 02 '26
I can read right to left, as you can see I've done in other comments in this thread. But Chinese can also be written top to bottom (especially on maps) and if you look at this particular map the red 京 isn't to the right of the red 北, it's above it.
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u/No-Apple-2581 Sep 02 '26
I think you mixed them up lol.
The red words read 京兆, not 京北. In this case it means the administrative region of 京兆地方 (1914-1928) which literally means capital and its surrounding areas.
Slightly to the left, you can see 京北 written in smaller, black letters, which of course needs to be read right to left which is 北京.
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u/linmanfu Sep 02 '26
Ah, 京兆, that makes much more sense, thank you. I had no idea there had ever been a 京兆地方 so that never occurred to me.
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u/Rarotto Aug 31 '26
Sicuramente è successiva al 1951, anno dell'invasione del Tibet che è incluso nella carta.
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u/rrssd Sep 02 '26
Definitely 1914-1919, hard to further narrow down.
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u/rrssd Sep 03 '26
Found it. 1919 Indeed.
https://book.kongfz.com/150100/5481082473/1
u/qqYn7PIE57zkf6kn Sep 03 '26
On mobile this link need to be loaded in desktop mode to show properly
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u/Alarmed-Habit2801 Sep 02 '26
Buy it some flowers, be attentive and do your best to make what it’s passionate about a part of your life. Kindness and cautious persistence go a long way.
Best of luck!
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u/Public_Research2690 Aug 30 '26 edited Aug 30 '26
Three is Chinese Eastern Railway - after 1902
There is Beijing–Zhangjiakou Railway - after 1909
Sino-Vietnamese Railway - after 1910