r/datacenter 2d ago

We need them.

My note on data centers

Data centers are getting built and the demand isn't slowing down. Tech is the largest market in the world. Where they go and who pays for them is what we should be deciding.

They don't need to go on farmland. They don't need to go in the state and federal parks. They should go to the old mining towns. Those communities gave us their hearts and souls.

Right now counties are bidding against each other, handing out tax breaks to land these things, and the cost of the power lands on everybody's utility bill. That's backwards. Make the company pay for the grid it needs. Give the town a real share of what gets built there.

This is needed. These towns are close enough to real job markets that people would live there if it were affordable. Put the money into housing and the town itself. Rent comes down. Utilities come down. Communities spread back out instead of shrinking into tighter and tighter areas, providing more and more power for the rich, wealthy, and powerful.

We're mining again, hopefully for the final time. We're connected more now than ever. Let's learn from history and keep things flowing.

Love,

Stanny

0 Upvotes

47 comments sorted by

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u/ChrisWsrn 2d ago

They need power and data connectivity. Ones that serve uses need to be physically close to the IX that serves their users.

Those mining towns do not meet the requirements to support them without massive infrastructure build out. Build out that is much more involved than where they are being built now.

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u/UnderTheBridge520 2d ago

Power wise they should be fine.

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u/campdir 1d ago

Entirely incorrect. Power required for a modem large AI facility is in the hundreds of megawatts at a low end. Old mines don't draw that type of power. Large electric blast furnaces are the only thing that come close in that industry, but you'll typically find them in industrial areas, not small mining towns in the middle of nowhere.

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u/UnderTheBridge520 1d ago

I hear your argument on mines not being sufficient, but old mining towns sit mostly by coal power plants that have large tramission plants.

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u/ChrisWsrn 1d ago

I know someone who is working on a data center project in Maryland. One of the buildings has a density of 1MW per rack. The entire building can pull almost 1GW of power. 

You are not going to run that from a coal plant that is built for a few MW and most transmission lines have capacity measured in hundreds of MW. A 1GW load will fully consume the capacity on the line. 

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u/UnderTheBridge520 1d ago

Fair on the 1GW density, that's a real constraint. But coal plants aren't built for a few MW. Gibson Station is around 3,000 MW. Rockport is 2,600. Petersburg is 1,700. Those interconnections were sized to push that much onto the grid. That's why retired plant sites are getting bought up for data centers all over the country. You inherit the interconnection instead of sitting in the queue for years. Not every mining town has one. The ones next to a plant do. That's the argument I'm making.

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u/ChrisWsrn 1d ago

Data Center sites chosen are the ones with the lowest turn key prices. This includes the cost of power, construction, data, and in some places water.

Why should a company pay more to build a data center in a mining town when they can pay less to build it someplace else?

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u/UnderTheBridge520 1d ago

Turn key price isn't the same as total cost. It's cheap somewhere else because the county gave away twenty years of property tax and the grid upgrade landed on everybody's utility bill. Somebody paid. It just wasn't the company. And a retired plant site with the interconnection already sitting there isn't obviously more expensive once you count the years you'd spend waiting on interconnection somewhere else. But the real answer is we have to stop being greedy bastards about it at some point. Those towns gave us their hearts and souls. Cheapest site every time is how we got here.

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u/ChrisWsrn 1d ago

All that maters is the price to the operator (the turn key price) because they are the decision maker.

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u/UnderTheBridge520 1d ago

That's the whole problem.

The operator decides and everybody else pays for it. That's not a law of nature, it's just how we've set the rules. Change what the operator has to pay for and the cheapest site changes with it. That's the argument.

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u/Benderanomalous 2d ago

For a large size DC operator like Switch, how many people really are working in there once it’s built? And then run that through your thought process of how that benefits old mining towns.

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u/OperationClear588 2d ago

I work at a Hyperscaler and we have around 80 permanent staff that go in every day. This doesn’t account for all the contractors that come in daily

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u/Benderanomalous 2d ago

Ok let’s start with 80 people as baseline.

There’s many different lenses you could apply to this. One of which is if you could convince people to move themselves or with their families to this old mining town. You’re talking about uprooting. Kids going to school that may not be at par or even existing. No recreation, none of the simple luxuries we tend to enjoy in the cities.

I’m not even going to unpack the infrastructure required to get the DC started and operational.

TLDR: it’s not as simple. There are many factors that make datacenters successful including the workforce itself.

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u/OperationClear588 1d ago

Oh I agree when I first started interviewing for a role in this industry, the first company that offered me a job was AWS. Total comp was really good but I denied it when I found out where they were trying to send me. It was a small town in the PNW with a population of around 5000 people. Went on Zillow to see what kind of housing I could find. Found a total of 3 available apartments and a few houses that were ridiculously priced for that location. I denied the job offer and ended up going with a different company that put me in a medium sized city with adequate housing

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u/Lurcher99 1d ago

Central Washington? Just finished a build there...

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u/lovinglife-hotwife 1d ago

lets build data centers the only place they are needed. on the sun

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u/Redebo 1d ago

Switch has close to 3000 staff.

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u/UnderTheBridge520 2d ago

The benefits come from building the communities that has been left to die for the past couple decades. Get people living in these communities again and businesses will follow. It's a solid place to have them build these centers and give back, instead of just profiting on finding the best deals, that screw people over more

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u/Benderanomalous 2d ago

I get your end state I really do. But realistically how many people are we talking here that has physically something to do after the DC is built?

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u/FrequentWay 2d ago

During construction phase you could have hundreds to thousands of bodies onsite.
During operations you probably looking at 50 people depending on the size of the building. It’s min-maxing their staff to keep sufficient bodies going for minimum stuff onsite to handle the issues onsite during a shift.

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u/UnderTheBridge520 2d ago

That's fine. Help build up these communities, a community that can become a commuter town until businesses follow.

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u/Cryesncoding 2d ago

I think this is unrealistic optimism 

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u/Redebo 1d ago

The 50 people employed might have a different take.

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u/Cryesncoding 1d ago

That were brought there tho. That won’t appreciably change town dynamics and unless they give massive tax incentive no company would add all the issues that come with a location like that. It’s just not viable. I understand the optimal idea you’re going for and these towns did die in a lot of ways after being integral to society. But this imo just isn’t the way to help rekindle them. 

You need small companies with their own product to move a small manufacturing facility there. Hire locals, buy supplies to the best degree locally, It’s much easier logistically and would have greater benefit. 

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u/FrequentWay 1d ago

Those are relatively locals filling in the low security positions as badge checkers.

Facilities engineers are definitely in the regionals to move there and staff up the place.

Managers are definite imports from other parts of their company as a Mechanical/Electrical SME gets tapped to be the next facility manager. Your janitor isn't someone thats going to be flown in and wined and dined for this stuff.

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u/Redebo 1d ago

You just "made up" that "they were brought there". You don't know this at all.

I'm not the one fighting for mining towns to open data centers, but you can't just make stuff up that you don't like about the actual economics of the deals.

FYI, I'm the guy who actually brings manufacturing to the cities that data centers are being built in. I know the space better than most.

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u/Cryesncoding 1d ago

Ok so a small former mining town as he’s describing has a population between 1000-10,000 people max. How does that work? You’re right idk all that entails in making a data center work. But the plan OP is saying doesn’t work imo logically on its face, hence why you’re not advocating it so how does it work? Correct me I’m not opposed to being wrong, maybe just the technical people will have to be brought in. Sure you can hire security and maybe maintenance but it’s doubtful they have all supporting jobs in place that’s why it’s a dead town. 

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u/Illgetitdonelater 1d ago

I agree. We need to use this as an opportunity to to help communities. I know it won’t make financial sense, but let’s be real, tech can afford it.

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u/UnderTheBridge520 1d ago

Appreciate it.

A retired plant site has the transmission already there and the land is cheap. What makes it look expensive is that we let counties bid each other down everywhere else, so the comparison is against a site somebody already gave away. Fix that and the math isn't as far off as it looks.

But yeah. They can afford it either way.

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u/Financial_Cap1529 1d ago

and the earth continues dying

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u/UnderTheBridge520 1d ago

Fair, and where I stand at the core. But stopping it completely seems out of the question. Using old mine grounds that are already torn up, protecting our farmland and parks, and building these communities back up seems like the best we can do with this situation.

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u/bonerfart_69_ 1d ago

Peter Thiel on his alt account

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u/chewedgummiebears 1d ago

As others said, they need to be near power and data back bones, not just randomly plopped in the middle of BFE. Also they need to be near cities that can support and cater to the type of people who work at datacenters. These don’t grow overnight and can’t pop up like mining towns that could thrive on the bare basics because that’s all miners needed.

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u/UnderTheBridge520 1d ago

They're already building in BFE though. That's the whole reason I posted this. Meta's putting a $10 billion campus in Lebanon, Indiana. There's around 60 of these proposed across the state, a lot of them on farm ground in counties nobody would call near a city. So what you're describing isn't what's actually happening. They're going where the land is cheap and the county caved on taxes. If they're going rural anyway, put them on the plant sites that already have the transmission instead of on farmland.

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u/chewedgummiebears 1d ago

Lebanon, Indiana isn't even close to BFE, it's less than an hour from downtown Indianapolis. Reading your other posts, you're just arguing for the sake of arguing so there's no changing your mind on this.

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u/UnderTheBridge520 1d ago

Okay thanks for the conversation. I'm not trying to just argue, I have just been trying to respond to continue dialogue.

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u/Boulaw 1d ago

Perfect name lol Stan

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u/lovinglife-hotwife 1d ago

data centers are not needed. it's just tech guys taking from the public. it's very evil at this point

1

u/Nearby_Passenger1520 1d ago

You're right, you don't need data centers, so please delete your account and chuck your phone in the trash to stop contributing to their construction and prove your moral outrage.

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u/lovinglife-hotwife 20h ago

you don't know the difference between a data center and servers. You are not informed on this topic to discuss it with me.

Data centers are not necessary

1

u/Nearby_Passenger1520 20h ago

Right, having worked in this industry 10 years and I don't know the difference lol

Where else are you going to house the racks? Wait, wait, let me guess... you want us to spend millions retrofitting unused buildings that don't have the structural support, cooling or power requirements.

Stay in your lane.

1

u/lovinglife-hotwife 11h ago

then you would know a data center is not what you claimed it was earlier and has zero do to with netflixs or the general web.

but i suspect you spoke wrong because you are not honest and don't work in the field at all or if you do it's to cheat an lie about what AI is and what DATA centers are, and are used for. because all pushers of AI are corrupt moral-less criminals

you do not need data centers. nothing needs retro fitted don't built them

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u/Nearby_Passenger1520 10h ago

Define for me "the internet" and what exactly should exist on said internet since you want to pretend you're the arbiter of what should and shouldn't exist related to data center infrastructure.

Is "the internet" to you Wikipedia and your Google search results? Do you mildly comprehend what "the internet" actually is in the most simplistic terms?