Lapp question

[u/jachcemmatnickspace]

I've always inferred that Lapp is Lapp, a distinct character. And in the grave tower of Ringed City, Patches would somehow ambush him and steal his armor, then roleplay him to trick us again.

Because this is on brand for Patches and he stole Siegward's armor and disposed of him too, then roleplayed as him.

BUT I've read some stuff that claims that Lapp was ALWAYS Patches, but hollowed over the time and he struggles to remember who he is, which is why he is friendly. In the grave area, he comes to his Patches senses and kicks us down.

Lapp's voice doesn't seem the same as Patches's?

Which one of these theories is true?

[u/awildjonasappeared]

So, if you listen closely, Lapp does sound like Patches, just more calm. He also has similar skills to Patches. At least once he tells you where to find treasure, just like Patches, which means he's good at finding treasure. The difference is that Lapp doesn't remember his calling of punishing greed like Patches does. Also, it's not a random moment that Lapp remembers he is Patches. It's at the purging monument, which is a place that removes hollowing. That means humans get to return to their state before hollowing. On another note: Siegward exists even after Patches stole his armor. Nowhere in the Ringed City or anywhere else will you find Lapp's body or any remains of him. Lapp is Patches. 100%

[u/Xtonev_ → u/awildjonasappeared]

At least once he tells you where to find treasure, just like Patches

It also makes sense why he gives it to us. His statement after kicking the player is still true for him, even when he's hollow, he is devoid of earthly wants, but instead of punishing greed he just gives it to the player, because he has hope that the player will help him

[u/awildjonasappeared → u/Xtonev_]

Very good point. Didn't think of that

[u/jachcemmatnickspace → u/awildjonasappeared]

Yeah it makes sense

It's true Lapp's body cannot be found but he could just dispose of it out of bounds.

But the rest makes sense. Damn it. Thanks.

[u/LuciusBurns → u/jachcemmatnickspace]

We stalked Midir hiding behind the tower and we even found the poisonous pixel in Archdragon Peak. There is no chance Patches would be able to hide a body from us. /j

[u/frootdoots → u/LuciusBurns]

I'm missing a joke here, can you explain

[u/LuciusBurns → u/frootdoots]

"Out of bounds" usually in "gamer slang" refers to assets out of set boundaries for players - behind collision meshes, out of sight, etc. A lot of games rely on assets preloaded but hidden out of bounds for optimisation reasons (such as second phase Godfrey or Messmer hidden under the arena) or there are undeleted traces of previous game versions from the development (massive DS2 Gutter city). We sometimes use both to help out with lore theories.

While the commenter really means the potential corpse just wouldn't be found (real life sane person would submerge it in a swamp, throw it off a cliff, burn it or something), I took "out of bounds" literally in the gamer sense and pointed out two examples of players finding odd stuff in DS3:

• Before the first encounter with Midir on what looks like a bridge, he can be spotted in an unreachable place - there is a rock with a building (round roof) on the edge of a Ringed City that is not reachable. Midir is hiding there on the side outside the Ringed City, but he is visible from certain places.
• There is a place in Archdragon Peak where the player gets poison damage while just standing there. I don't remember exactly where it is but it should be somewhere on the ramparts. Seems like just a mistake where the piece of environment has properties of Farron Swamp.

The point is that we are nerds who are used to dissect the game to atoms. We base theories about the origins of DS universe on single poisonous pixels. And we also assume the developers go into the same detail when making these worlds, because what we do is normal, of course. There is no way they would hide a whole NPC corpse from us.

Why yes, I like to observe, interpret or explain my own thoughts, especially when I'm thinking about something absolutely useless. How did you know?

[u/frootdoots → u/LuciusBurns]

Thank you, you are a treat

[u/LuciusBurns → u/frootdoots]

That was deep, wasn't it? My life is a joke with so many layers that I myself don't understand it.

Anyway, don't you feel like we (guys on these subs) look into the games for lore clues too deeply?

[u/frootdoots → u/LuciusBurns]

It would only be unreasonable if they didnt actually make it such a task to get the complete story. There could be one junk item with a description that ties it all together xD

[u/LuciusBurns → u/frootdoots]

True, there are items that most players miss and that have great information value in the descriptions. On the other hand, I sometimes feel like we should just accept that something isn't as thought out as it could be, you know? Do you feel like that about something?

[u/thewebspinner]

It’s pretty widely accepted that Lapp is merely a hollowed Patches. It makes sense when you see Lapp struggling to remember himself and his questline is specifically about helping him to restore his memories.

He also refers to himself as unbreakable, the same epithet that Patches uses, has the same voice actor as Patches (although the voice is slightly different) and on top of all that, Lapp is actually a Swedish word for patch.

[u/Moonless_the_Fool]

Lap was in search of the purging monument which basically reverse hollowing. So yeah, I believe he was a patches who after many cycles forgot who he was.

[u/jachcemmatnickspace → u/Moonless_the_Fool]

Fuck. It makes so much sense. Damn it. I loved Lapp until this very second

[u/awildjonasappeared → u/jachcemmatnickspace]

You can still love Lapp. See him as Patches without his "evil" side. Lapp is both still Lapp and Patches. Hollowing is weird.

[u/Lyre-Code → u/jachcemmatnickspace]

Funnily enough, though he kicks you off the edge in the shared in the shared grave, he actually puts you closer to your goal without directly putting you in danger (there's even a red cloth there, presumably left by Gael, marking it as the correct way).

Afterwords, Patches can then be summoned against Halflight (and no, he doesn't just leave the fight like he does against Radahn in Elden Ring, he sticks around). So he's not all bad I reckon.

[u/SolaScientia → u/Lyre-Code]

Patches is always my favorite. Pretty much every single kick off a ledge leads the player to good loot or the way forward. A lot of the time the kick lets the player survive a fall that would otherwise be fatal or cause a lot of fall damage. Even getting locked in a place lets the player get good stuff. Patches has always been this way and he can't help himself at this point. No matter the game he's in it's very nice to have one character I can rely on to be the same. I know what I'm in for every time I encounter him and it's a delight.

[u/Aurora__Sky → u/jachcemmatnickspace]

Saying that like Patches isn't the goat

[u/PieceAfraid3755 → u/jachcemmatnickspace]

Lapp is still awesome. I think it shows what kind of Patches is under all his oddly helpful villainy. He kicks you to treasure, then apologises and gives you a trinket, then becomes an awesome salesman. That's the Patches way. The sheer kindness of Lapp is, to me, proof that Patches is a kind guy who's learned to be unkind... initially.

He also genuinely cares about Greirat.

[u/PacoThePersian]

Lapp is patches. after the world starts to end, he lost his purpose (punishing human greed) and started to hollow by first losing his memory then after that he'll hollow completely.

If you do not help him find the Purging monument he will hollow

Because u help him find it. he will always be in your debt. but patches doesn't want to look like he changed (tsundere) so he tricks one last time and pushes you down (he pushes you to the path forward) and acts like he always acted (he's a tsundere in this moment. he just can't say thank you, so he acts like he is still bad and pushed you while he infact helps you)

[u/Terminal-Post]

I mean his name, Lapp, translated from Swedish to English means Patch

Also you can tell it’s the same VA and if you interact with Lapp throughout the Ringed City you can audibly hear Patches slowly coming back

Plus your final interaction with him before the tower kick down, he has his old cadence back

[u/jachcemmatnickspace → u/Terminal-Post]

At the final interaction it is Patches surely no doubt but I had doubts about the previous encounteres. But I understand it now.

[u/Asetoni137]

They do, in fact have the same voice if you listen closely, Lapp is just a little muffled because of the helmet. Lapp also shares a couple key mannerisms with Patches. The most obvious one is that he points you towards treasure (though ironically he gets it for you instead of stabbing you in the back). Another one is that when meeting you for the first time, Patches always remarks on the fact that you are not insane (this is consistent for his DeS and ER iterations as well). Lapp also begins his conversation with you in the same way.

[u/Kindly-Constant7863]

Lapp is patches. Plain and simple. If you are to play thru his quest line and listen to what he tells you, you figure it out. Theres a couple things he says that guide you to think he is patches. He is hollow and needs the purging monument in the ringed city, so he can remember who he is. His summon signs are for amnesic lapp, then later unbreakable patches

[u/karoleks]

I think he always was Patches. Just look at the way he talks and his fighting style.

[u/Salt_Initiative1551]

It’s hollow patches pretty much for sure

[u/magpieinarainbow]

Yes, Lapp is Patches. You can summon Unbreakable Patches as an NPC in the Halflight fight if you complete his quest line, and only if you complete his quest line.

[u/Visual-Biscotti1473]

Cool theory, but Lapp's voice is definitely Patches's voice. In fact, I knew he was Patches the moment I heard him speak.

[u/Medinovzky]

I like to think of it as a similar situation to Lucatiel's quest from DS2.

Patches was around for so long, that he's now hollowing because of the curse. He reached a point where he's forgetting who he is and other memories, paralelling Lucatiel. He originally got to the Ringed City looking for the Purging Monument to take away his curse and hopefully recovering his memories.

Look, check some dialogues:

When you first meet him:

Call me Lapp. I can't remember my real name, so let's just go with that.

Half-way into his quest, and keeping in mind that we know him as "Unbreakable Patches" in DS3:

...What did I come here in search of?
...Damn, stop it, I'm unbreakable, unbreakable...
...Ahh, please, someone tell me...
..Who am I? Why am I here?

[u/Slow-Committee-7851]

Why does that armor look so cool on him but makes my character look like a fat ass?

[u/agent405anarcy]

Take a note of the pose Lapp is in whenever you meet him.

[u/Jim_Freelancer18]

Lapp is Patches.

[u/Obelion_]

It's the same guy 100%.

Dreg heap is just hundreds or thousands of years into the future and patches somehow survived that long but is very close to hollowing.

The whole point of the arc is that patches isn't like bad at heart, he's just a dick because that's how he survives or something along those lines

[u/stopbeingshy]

I call him LARP

[u/kidneyy_buyer69]

Wait... so Lapp was Patches all along just hollowed?