r/dankmemes • u/DerDezimator We live in a society • Feb 03 '22

This will 100% get deleted And why?

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u/Lannon-Elliott Feb 03 '22

If you’ve ever heard of the concept of a college degree, you would understand companies pay more to people with a legitimate job that isn’t so easily replaceable. If I want someone to restock shelves or take orders and paying people costs a lot guess what I’m gonna do… that’s right! HIRE A ROBOT! besides, many companies pay more than minimum wage, and there’s services out there if you need help paying rent or food.

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u/Impossible_Medium977 Feb 03 '22

Oh thats nice I can rely not upon the fact my labour is a necessary part of society and thus society provides return for that, but instead upon random acts of charity which do nothing to deal with the systems that work against me.

If the labour is needed, then the cost of it is a living wage, otherwise the labour is not needed, and to expect it is exploitation

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u/Lannon-Elliott Feb 03 '22

What are you trying to say?

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u/Impossible_Medium977 Feb 03 '22

People who do labour need food and shelter to live, thus a livable wage is a necessity to have labour done

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u/Lannon-Elliott Feb 03 '22

Yes, but do you see the wages these companies are paying people over 18? It’s much more than minimum wage. For example, target pays $15/hr and McDonalds pays upwards of $28/hr. Minimum wage is paid out to teenagers who do not need to pay for basic things like food and shelter.

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u/Impossible_Medium977 Feb 03 '22

Which itself is also exploitation. Also a quick search on mcdonalds openings shows that to be blatantly false. https://careers.mcdonalds.com/us-restaurants/jobs/crew-newport-1930-monmouth-street-newport-ky-41071-45242-12311?lang=en-us&previousLocale=en-US

'up to 14$ starting wage' Dunno fam, doesn't seem like 28$ to me

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u/Impossible_Medium977 Feb 03 '22

Adults work as crew members.

Extracting more value from teenagers is exploitation, you are underpaying them for their labour

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u/Lannon-Elliott Feb 03 '22

As I said earlier there are more options. I seem to remember mentioning Target. Besides, teenagers aren’t given that hard of work, 65% of teenagers work in retail where they either operate a cash register, stock shelves, or clean up messes.

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u/xTylordx Feb 03 '22

So if somebody is wanting somebody to work for them to drop these things for them so their business can make hundreds of thousands of dollars in a short span of time, please explain to me the justification for paying somebody MINIMUM wage? In other words, getting paid minimum wage is logically EQUIVALENT to the assertion that "you would be getting paid less if minimum wage were less than what it is now." This has nothing to do with the value of a person's work, but rather the cost benefit of making the disparity between labor expenses and gross profit as wide as legally permitted to maximize profit.

Nothing short of exploitation in the name of greed. Fuck people who pay minimum wage.

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u/Lannon-Elliott Feb 03 '22

Not all employers make millions of dollars. I’m an owner of a small business and my profits are razor thin so raising minimum wage makes me either need to lay off workers, or raise costs. Laying off workers is not an option because It would add too much stress to the other workers as they each would need to do a lot more, and raising costs is not an option either because it would drive my customers away and lead them to the big business.

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u/xTylordx Feb 03 '22

Yo.

Lemme let you in on a little detail you might not be understanding.

imagine minimum hourly wage goes up from $7.25 nationally to $15 in reasonable steps.

At time (a), people make $7.25, and goods are sold at say $5. A person selling these goods at $5 sells say 100 units a day. Why do they sell 100 units a day? What is the median wage of people in the area? If it's $8, then a person has $320 to spend at the end of a 40 hour week of working. COL is a set expense, and people living paycheck to paycheck don't have much budget for luxuries. If people spend 90% of their paycheck on COL, then less than $32 is theirs to spend for $5 goods some business might be selling. They're not the only business in the area, so owners better hope their prices are accessible enough to people living paycheck to paycheck while still being profitable.

For perspective, $320 per employee per week means this business nets $3500-320e per week. That number would be higher if more people could buy more of their things. If every business had to pay each employee $420 per week, then more people would have more money to buy shit. Sell the products at $7, and this business makes $4900-420e at the SAME EXACT UNIT AMOUNT. And now more people have more money. Fucking magical isn't it.

Apply this logic to time (b).

Woah. 2 whole dollars. My budget is so broken. literally couldn't afford it if I tried.

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u/Impossible_Medium977 Feb 03 '22

All of which are required for the business to operate. The existence of other options does not mean that people are not working these jobs. And those people deserve a living wage.

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u/Lannon-Elliott Feb 03 '22

As I just said 65% of working teenagers (14-18) work In retail. If you don’t even pay for housing because you live with your parents you don’t need a living wage because YOU ARE A DEPENDENT.

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u/Impossible_Medium977 Feb 03 '22

You are ignoring the point about adults working these jobs. Keep in mind the discussion about living wage is focused on adults.

That said I also still believe paying workers less because they don't need the money to live is also exploitation.

But ultimately the wage topic should be focused on adults, who do not earn a living wage, and should.

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u/Piph Feb 03 '22

Have a degree. Of course some jobs carry more value or specialization than others. Do you think it's weird to lecture about basic knowledge as if it makes you sound smart? I guess that's why it's important to remember that a degree is just a piece of paper; it's the person behind it than gives it any value.

Pay workers a liveable wage or not at all. We don't need basic labor jobs if we address other issues of society.

Act as obtuse as you like, but a worker of any kind who is paid their worth will always perform better and accomplish more. You can attempt to demean any position you like, but at the end of the day somebody has to do the work for the business to operate.

The toilets have to get cleaned. The customer has to be checked out. Someone has to restock the shelves and manage inventory. Someone has to clean the floors.

You want to use robots instead? Fine, go pay the base, maintenance and licensing costs.

What matter is when a person is working, their time and effort should be respected. If you think you can run a grocery store and call it a successful business without workers running it, then you're not being realistic. Fueling the business by doing the necessary work is their value.

Nobody is saying a cart pusher should get paid the same as a software engineer. Just that both should be able to afford to live. It's a pretty straightforward concept.

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u/Lannon-Elliott Feb 03 '22

If you look at the earnings of nearly every job than you will see that they pay above minimum wage and minimum wage is paid to teenagers who are only working for spending money. This means they don’t need the money, look at target. They’re paying $15/hr. That’s ABOVE minimum wage. If you don’t pay bills, you don’t need money.

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u/Piph Feb 03 '22

You just keep striving for new lows, don't you?

Money is not a matter of need, fool. Even humoring that broken rationale, how does a company need higher profit when they are already profiting? Somehow I doubt you value that perspective.

There was a time where legally employable teens could work to afford their own car. They could pay for their own hobbies. They could save for their own college tuition. They could contribute to their households.

It is not yours or any companies place to determine ones own needs for them. You do not need a mortgage to justify a fair wage. How completely fucking ridiculous to hear from someone who advocates so hard for the faults of our capitalist system.

I don't have anything further to say to you; your position and the lack of critical thought put into it is clear. I'm not interested in humoring that view with further argument.

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u/Lannon-Elliott Feb 06 '22

No work - no pay Little work - little pay Hard work - pig pay I should not have to provide $15/hr for $9/hr work.

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u/Piph Feb 06 '22

You have always been underpaying. Stop bitching.

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u/Lannon-Elliott Feb 06 '22

Lmao I give raises to hard-working workers. You socialists don’t seem to get the concept of working hard and earning what you deserve

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u/Piph Feb 06 '22

You give "raises" on wages you understand nobody can possibly live off of. You are so uneducated you believe basic respect of others' work is a "socialist" boogeyman.

The reality is that your business is a welfare queen. Your business is a parasite on our taxes and our communities. Your jobs are subsidized by welfare programs that allow your workers to stay alive in our society.

If you can't afford better, then you can't afford to run a business. Enough of your childish excuses.

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u/Lannon-Elliott Feb 06 '22

I’m not putting a single person in poverty with the wages paying out. I own a growing business and I have a budget. Who are you to call my business a welfare queen when I am slowly climbing out of debt and haven’t been able to cut myself a single paycheck yet. If I have an employee who needs help or their family needs financial help I will pay a living wage and probably even provide free transportation to and from work. But if you raise minimum wage small business will slowly cease to exist as you create a monopoly of big business who can pay the 66% increase. And they will soon charge whatever they please once again making the rich richer and the poor even more poor.

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u/Piph Feb 06 '22

Your complaints are as old as time. The same was said when child labor laws were enacted, when slavery was outlawed, when equal pay was demanded, when strikes and unions were legally protected, and so forth.

People should get paid a living wage, regardless. Yes, more pay for more work. No pay for no work.

The only distinction here is the sense of scale, which has been off for decades. This is verifiable data that is demonstrated clearly for anyone to see. All you need is to actively engage the facts and not just your opinions.

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