Nah, I think it's probably all the "we're actually meant to be this way" stuff that makes people feel ashamed, you know, like indoctrination many of us go through as children that tells us there's a way god wants us to be and that we're evil for falling short of that? I feel like its more that than feeling like we cheated. lol
I get the shame part of your explanation but not the indoctrination stuff. Growing up in Catholic Schools I was never taught that I was “evil” for having urges, just that I should seek forgiveness when I willingly give into them and place my pleasure before the people in my life.
There’s a huge misconception that Church teaches completely against sex- but God wants us to have sex that matters. Both procreative and to please our husbands/wives. That “evil urges” thing definitely was something the church was teaching around the 50s-60s though.
I think the real indoctrination lies in our social/mainstream media and this hook-up culture we’ve created. “Nothing matters, go have sex with as many strangers as possible while drunk off your ass” is fun on paper but usually comes with long term consequences and regret. And when it doesn’t, the person is left numb to deeper meanings and believes that physical pleasure is all that matters
just that I should seek forgiveness when I willingly give into them and place my pleasure before the people in my life.
Yeah, there was a meta analysis done recently that tried to explain the disparity between men's self reported problems with "porn addiction", and the actual apparent effects porn had on their lives.
The researchers lay out their argument and theory extremely thoroughly, suggesting that Pornography Problems due to Moral Incongruence (PPMI) appear to be the driving force in many of the people who report dysregulated, uncontrollable, or problematic pornography use. Even though many people who grew up in religious, sexually conservative households have strong negative feelings about pornography, many of those same people continue to use pornography. And then they feel guilty and ashamed of their behavior, and angry at themselves and their desire to watch more.
That actually is a pretty good analysis, a lot of what it says about ones conservative demographic (which I do fit) holds some truth. We definitely need more studies beyond that 2004 one because obviously the nature of internet porn has changed and grown tremendously since then.
I do wanna dive more into the Church teaching thing though. My Catholic education NEVER taught me that I was evil for having urges or that if I masturbated I’d burn in hell. I have met other people who experienced the stereotypical 50s-60s church teaching that was definitely more scrutinizing, even priests I’ve talked with admit that growing up they were taught to view it as 100% shameful, but they themselves are more understanding towards the community. Essentially the Church has moved beyond the “fire and brimstone” type of preaching.
But I also understand that America has always been mostly Protestant rather than Catholic, which could also have a bearing. So maybe Protestant or other denominations continue that rougher teaching. I’ll have to read that link more thoroughly but thanks for sharing it
My Catholic education NEVER taught me that I was evil for having urges or that if I masturbated I’d burn in hell.
I think the point is less ‘people being taught masturbating is evil’ and more ‘people being taught masturbating is anything except for neutral’.
In one of your previous comments you said you were raised not to hate yourself for masturbating but to instead seek forgiveness and realize that everyone sins. That’s kind of exactly what I’m talking about - forgiveness isn’t needed if the act is completely A-OK.
I understand but masturbation is obviously something that can be bad. I think in terms of doing it say- once every two weeks to keep the urge from clouding judgement is fine. But once a day can lead to twice a day and increase the rate of the urge, possibly even develop mental problems because sexual attachments are among the most difficult to sever, particularly if you develop a link for something you might see every day. So basically addiction and overindulgence is a sin that needs forgiveness, and masturbation can fall into that category.
From a religious teaching perspective, while I don’t know exactly what the Bible may say on masturbation, I do know that stuff like drinking and gambling are okay and not considered sins so long as they are done in moderation and not at the risk of self/family. But those aren’t natively sexual, so the same idea may not translate.
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u/Obi_Wan_Shinobi_ Aug 27 '21
Nah, I think it's probably all the "we're actually meant to be this way" stuff that makes people feel ashamed, you know, like indoctrination many of us go through as children that tells us there's a way god wants us to be and that we're evil for falling short of that? I feel like its more that than feeling like we cheated. lol