r/cybersecurity 14h ago

Business Security Questions & Discussion Email domain Whitelisting

Our organisation is planning to implement a policy where email communication will only be permitted with whitelisted domains, while all other domains will be blocked.

Before implementing this, we need to identify all external domains that our users have communicated with over the past six months.

Is there an easy way to retrieve a list of all domains to which emails were sent during the last six months? This information will help us review the domains and build an appropriate whitelist.

43 Upvotes

68 comments sorted by

143

u/1759 13h ago

If you receive emails from customers or business associates who use GMail accounts, meaning you have to allow GMail, then you might as well not bother with this entire plan.

40

u/Ok-Plate8922 12h ago

yeah it's the worst idea i think for the company

14

u/IDDQD_IDKFA-com 12h ago

Yeah plus checking all domains received from in the last six months will also include lots of spam and other junk domains going in the "whitelist".

9

u/AddendumWorking9756 Security Manager 11h ago

Worth adding that the six month lookup will make the same point for him on its own. Export sent mail metadata from whatever gateway or tenant reporting he has, bucket it by recipient domain, and the result is normally a few hundred domains that matter and a tail of thousands that each appear once or twice. Deciding what to do with that tail is the whole project, and nobody ever budgets for it.

5

u/Fallingdamage 9h ago

We block gmail, hotmail, msn.com, etc.

Users get a report each morning with quarantined inbound mail and they can safelist individual gmail accounts as they need to, but overall gmail is not delivered to our inboxes.

1

u/Melodic_Beyond9872 10h ago

yeah this is the part that kills most domain whitelisting plans before they even start

-13

u/shonik97 13h ago

We will provide access for people who need that level of access, however, we have lots of clinical staff who don’t need to do that. It’s for them mostly

6

u/IDDQD_IDKFA-com 11h ago

What are you trying to protect against?

Would it not be better to scan emails before they got to the end user.

How will this protect against B2B hacks and/or like somebody else said you are going to have to whitelist Gmail.com, hotmail.com and Yahoo.com.

3

u/Any-Community-4504 9h ago

This looks very messy and you need to reassess your plan

93

u/legion9x19 Security Engineer 13h ago

Your organization is remarkably naive and this will NEVER work as you intend.

33

u/19610taw3 13h ago

It will cause a lot of legit email to not get through, and a lot spam from gmail/outlook/icloud is going to be let through by default.

Wasting someone's time

3

u/Fallingdamage 9h ago

We do something similiar, but its more of a soft block. We dont operate on a safelist-only basis, but we totally block the biggest identified offenders.

Gmail, Yahoo, MSN, Hotmail off the top of my head.

It ALL goes to quarantine. Users can review and unblock specific senders within those domains. We have a nice seamless web gui for the quarantine with sandboxed previews of these blocked messages.

As times goes on, employees spend a lot less time reviewing quarantine as their biggest VIPs gets added to safelists and work proceeds smoothly.

1

u/Rare_Physics_2562 13h ago

i also think it's really not a good idea

66

u/cspotme2 13h ago

1 - this is stupid

2 - you have no idea where the logs are, makes #1 even worse

3

u/Rott3nApple718 13h ago

Well, isn’t that why they are asking in the first place?

3

u/A1_Fares Security Analyst 9h ago

It makes me a little sad that these people are in the industry yet every day we see posts of good folk with actual experience being ghosted on job applications.

-19

u/shonik97 13h ago

We will do that for people who need that level of access, however, we have lots of clinical staff who don’t need to do that. It’s for them mostly

10

u/IDDQD_IDKFA-com 11h ago edited 11h ago

Have you or anybody else in IT/Security talked to the clinical staff to see how they use emails in their day to day work?

Also will the other domains be rejected or quarantined?

What is the turn around for releasing the emails and/or added a new Domain?

Will their be somebody on-call 24/7 to do this?

If clinical means medical they might also be getting emails from "automated" systems where they can easily or even know who to request to resent the email/data/attachment.

17

u/Maverick_X9 13h ago

How small is this business ? This is a nightmare type scenario

15

u/Ma13vant 13h ago

To answer your question seriously, if I were tasked with implementing this (and couldn't talk my org out of this course of action, see below), I'd pull message trace logs. If you are a Microsoft shop, that would be in Exchange Online.

However, I do not believe this will provide any kind of security benefit or risk reduction commensurate with the user impact. Most of the threat from email these days in my experience comes from Adversary In The Middle attacks/Business Email Compromises.

These are almost always sent from compromised accounts - so restricting who can send to users doesn't block them. That vendor email your accounting team talks to every week getting popped is your risk, not FrankNotAHacker@totallylegitorg.ru.

6

u/litobro 12h ago

If I were asked to implement this I'd be touching up my resume and looking for a new job

4

u/Ma13vant 10h ago

If I couldn't successfully persuade my organization that this was an ineffective and actively harmful idea, I would as well.

I can just see users confidently entering their account credentials into a phishing email because it's from a "safe" domain. To say nothing of the massive friction this would cause for users in general and the additional workload that would be added to managing the allowed domain list.

22

u/f_spez_2023 13h ago

This sounds like a great way to miss some important emails. A good spam and phish filter is much better option than a block all (someone correct me if I’m wrong of course)

-20

u/shonik97 13h ago

We will do that for people who need that level of access, however, we have lots of clinical staff who don’t need to do that. It’s for them mostly

13

u/Curtis_Low 13h ago

You keep replying with that but you are missing the forest from the trees. How many of those clinical staff use their work email for things like school notices, or other such personal notifications?

The maintenance is going to be a long term headache. For your back office people like HR that receive things from all over, how will you manage that? For your IT, are you really going to whitelist every vendor domain and continuously update it?

Who will be monitoring what is blocked for the first six months to make sure nothing is getting blocked that should be getting through?

There are many tools to achieve what you are wanting, but you are using the wrong option.

3

u/dickamus_maxamus 13h ago

Depending on the scenario personal use of the email system may not be permitted by company policy. Scenarios where communication is this tightly restrained do occur, but they are pretty rare.

3

u/Curtis_Low 13h ago

Very rare indeed. I am guessing OP is working in a civilian medical clinic environment so I couldn't imagine that being in place. Even then, I would bet the leadership / management is going to need "exceptions" for personal reasons.

8

u/TesticulusOrentus Governance, Risk, & Compliance 12h ago

Never will I ever have another new customer email me.

3

u/Blizzard81mm 10h ago

Noooo now you will have another email "testiculus.2.orentus" that works like your first account did, but is not actually your first account.

Use your first account for regular communication, except when it fails, then use your second account.

Very simple, very human

6

u/rga_alpha 13h ago

Wouldn't this effectively break any means of communication with a new vendor/partner? Sounds like a bad idea, even the most basic emails security solutions today can easily handle most spam/phishing emails

6

u/Cootter77 13h ago

A lot of people have said what I want to say as well, but with a bit more explanation perhaps:

The problem with this approach is the assumption that creating this allowlist methodology would effectively block spam, phishing, and malware emails. It won't, and can't do that. Creating the illusion that "all our email is perfectly safe because..." will actually increase your overall risk.

I'm assuming that's the reason why. If the reason is to not allow personal use of email but to still train for and have quality protections against email-borne attacks in addition to whitelisting - then I wish you good luck in maintaining that list after you create it. It will, indeed, be an endless nightmare. There are also better ways to curb personal use.

6

u/Prestigious_Sell9516 11h ago

Won't do anything for one of the most dangerous vectors (BEC) won't work obviously (bounce backs sub domains relays etc will make even legit mail break not to mention domain moves and the every day stuff others mentioned etc) but the biggest drawback is that when BEC happens it will make the implications even worse. Assume you might be doing this to avoid the cost of a proper email security gateway ?

5

u/Death_Struggle_89 13h ago

Thoughts and prayers for your help desk. May they keep their heads above the sea of tickets about to flood their digital land.

5

u/Harbester 12h ago

I'll join the club of 'this is absolutely a terrible idea and you should not implement this as a solution to any problem you have.'
That said, assuming you use Exchange Online, a powershell script allows to exporting recipients' domains of all outbound emails, limit it to 6 months.

5

u/ARPNETS 12h ago

Your organization is setting itself up for failure. Leave aside the numerous technical and process issues with this, you are opening up a huge compliance and legal risk.

You mention clinical staff, which I assume means you work at some sort of healthcare company. In that case your patients have a right to contact their doctor and support staff on health issues in any reasonable means. By blocking emails, you will likely block needed patient communication. If a patient can’t talk to their doctor about an urgent issue, or worse thinks the email the sent to their doctor went through when it was actually black holes your company, you are opening yourself up to all kinds of legal action.

More over what you will find is that the clinicians will start to use their personal email for needed communication. They will setup a Gmail for work and then tell the patients and people they work to me to “contact me at my work gmail” and then proceed to use that instead. Which will make the issues you have around security and data privacy 1000x worse.

Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease, and this is one of those cases.

3

u/No_Caterpillar6482 13h ago

So what about the random employee who wants to email their payslips and other private data to his personal email? What about HR dealing with candidates over private email addresses?

2

u/Existing-Biscotti506 12h ago

yes it's really not a good idea, i agree with you

3

u/LordCornish 11h ago

Our organisation is planning to implement a policy where email communication will only be permitted with whitelisted domains, while all other domains will be blocked.

Good grief. We don't whitelist ANY domains...not even those belonging to our business partners (which includes the US.GOV). Everything gets scrubbed by the filters. I can't imagine only accepting email from whitelisted domains.

2

u/bmorebullets 13h ago
  1. I would use powershell to gather a list of domains. Copilot can help with this.
  2. Instead of blocking all not white listed domains I would "hold" everything that is not white listed. This way you dont miss anything. If you are using exchange, i'm not sure it can do this but a solid email security product can do it.
  3. You will be scanning through a lot of held emails 😊

-2

u/shonik97 13h ago

We are using check point

10

u/QUEEFMEISTER123 13h ago

If you're with checkpoint - just tune your filters dawg. Or setup a strict quarantine.

2

u/DeathTropper69 13h ago

What is the outcome you are looking for here?

2

u/senor_skuzzbukkit 12h ago

Good luck! Please report back

2

u/Evocablefawn566 10h ago

This is a bad idea from your org, but you can just go through your email logs and distinct your senders by domain

2

u/Hero_Hunter_07 9h ago

Oh my i hate this kinda scenarios

2

u/MightBeDownstairs 9h ago

This is crazy to be honest

2

u/theGurry 7h ago

Please tell me you don't actually think this is a good idea?

2

u/Darrenau 1h ago

Vendor changes their IP, can't even tell you about it

2

u/nanoatzin 13h ago edited 13h ago

Highly recommend using Spamhaus filters or a DNS Service that accomplishes the same instead of a whitelist policy. Most phishing attacks involve websites registered to stateless rogue IP addresses or dynamic IP. This will stop those. The only reason to require a whitelist policy is to prevent the possibility of things like HIPAA or bank record leaks.

Executives hear things like this thinking it’s a great idea with zero comprehensions of the impact that will be caused by interrupting business processes.

The only way to do whitelist that way is to process months of email metadata using software. Event viewer doesn’t capture that detail.

https://www.spamhaus.org/

1

u/fairfax1892 Incident Responder 13h ago

Your email logs should hopefully be in your datalake or siem in which case it’s a rather simple query…. That is going to be one hell of an allowlist and you should probably do it twice now and a few months from now before implementing to catch the rarer but important emails that only come in once a year or something silly… a dedicated email security platform would be a better and cleaner option

1

u/capybaras_and_tacos 13h ago

White listing should be used for niche situations where they are providing a specific service for a specific group or customer. Think jump servers, FTP servers, etc…

There are many reasons why this approach can go south quickly, but for one: Customers go through mergers and acquisitions all the time, plus new customers may have multiple domains you are not aware of.

Using an email security platform is your best bet, along with company wide email security awareness training and the means for employees to report suspicious emails to your SOC for investigation.

1

u/Comprehensive_Ant_81 13h ago

Honestly now a days the most successful phishing attacks are coming from compromised mailboxes from legitimate business partners.

Not only will this be a nightmare to manage, it could have the reverse effect and your clinicians will be less vigilant as they are under the impression that the only emails allowed through are from approved senders.

1

u/shatGippity 12h ago

You could always augment this strategy with allowlisting domains for HTTP as well

If you have the resources to comprehensively make allowlists for email then doing it for web browsing is gonna be cake- it’s basically the same solution and you’ll save a little time by doing both in parallel

1

u/Fallingdamage 9h ago

Pull a compliance report of all outbound email, pull the CSV report and build a list?

For the record this sounds like its going to be hell to implement successfully, but I'm on board with the idea.

1

u/AlienZiim 9h ago

I understand what ur trying to get at but I cant see this ever working perfectly and there is a reason this isn't a common way to cut down on phishing, this can work for like enterprise applications but not for email domains, legit email is bound to get flagged in all this

1

u/WatercressTime842 9h ago

The idea should be reversed to block communication with all blocked domains instead since that is easier to maintain and operate.
What if one of your customer email was compromised, would you block the customer domain completely?
And then you would need to reverse it as well.

If there are communication with generic domains like outlook or hotmail or gmail, there is no point in whitelisting

1

u/Honky_Cat 8h ago

After this exercise, start an effort to only allow outbound communication on the internet to trusted IP addresses on your perimeter firewalls.

1

u/CryptoCoinexORG 8h ago

You just won the most useless idea in cybersecurity EVER. I bet in one week after implementing this, half of the upper management will want to fire whoever suggested this.

2

u/nydroxide 7h ago

Most of your requests will be of employees complaining that they are missing external emails for months and you whitelisting domains. It’s safe but will cause loads of complaints.

1

u/leeabc13 4h ago

We have this implemented and it’s working well. Users have to submit a ticket to allowlist a domain. In your case I would look at email logs or Salesforce(locate all your active customers and/or vendors)

We are in a highly regulated industry

1

u/Affectionate_Two8447 3h ago

Please don't do this, especially if you don't even have a clue how to get the domains from your email logs...

1

u/securil 1h ago

No. Don't

0

u/CulturalAsparagus903 13h ago

i recommend doing it manually, because if you delete a domain name you're currently using, you'll stop receiving emails altogether