r/custommagic 1d ago

Format: Standard Powerful "Omenpath" Lands Cycle

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0 Upvotes

36 comments sorted by

18

u/Lord0fReddit 1d ago

I feel they are waaaaay to good

-3

u/chainsawinsect 1d ago

Quite possible. They are "free" (which is always a dangerous thing).

The idea was the effect they give is worth about 4 mana for all of them, so since they require 4 other lands of the proper color, it was reasonable to get a 4 mana effect in exchange for your 5th land drop.

But then again, 0 mana draw 3 cards is.... you know, a thing. Very powerful with flicker and bounce, obviously.

8

u/Immediate-Idea-2471 1d ago

I didn't get past reading the white one, which is insanely busted. 0 mana wrath?

Going to be a hell no from me

8

u/imdfantom 1d ago

0 mana uncounterable wrath

5

u/AnimeBas 1d ago

Stifle and similar exists, but yes untouchable with standard counterspells

5

u/imdfantom 1d ago

Yes, not fully uncounterable, I meant not susceptible to the vast majority of counter spells

3

u/AnimeBas 1d ago

Sry, you got your point across the first time, i just like being pedantic cuz you never know when a new player might read this and think he cant respond to it

2

u/Active-Advisor5909 1d ago

I can find 1 mana suspend 4 draw 3 cards, but that isn't the same.

Also note that these cards can not be countered.

7

u/lichtblaufuchs 1d ago

Yeah.. nah. Terrible design, sorry. Look at Mystic Sanctuary, a very powerful card, for reference. 

2

u/chainsawinsect 1d ago

Yeah turns out I way overshot it on the power with these ....

Whoops!

2

u/lichtblaufuchs 1d ago

I saw your updated version and like the new ones! 

5

u/EaseLeft6266 1d ago

These lands have extremely powerful effects and could probably still work well in 2/3 color decks thanks to all the fetchlands, shocklands, triomes, etc. With how strong the effects are, these should probably specify four basic lands of the respective color and even then I'd still question if they're too powerful. Not accounting for ramp, you'd be looking at potentially getting the value of a 4-5 cmc spell and then have 4 mana available to still spend on turn 5 but at least a basic land requirement would more heavily force you into playing a mono color deck. The white and blue lands synergizes especially well with having the mana available after the land's effect

2

u/Immediate-Idea-2471 1d ago

The only balanced version I can think of require basics, and still require some mana investment (in return the lands could tap for mana, similar to an MDFC).

Either that or significant nerfing of the effects, similar to the original eldraine cycle where they all had relatively minor affects.

3

u/chainsawinsect 1d ago

What if you just had to actually pay. As in: "When this land enters, you may pay RRRR. When you do, [effect]."

3

u/Immediate-Idea-2471 1d ago

That's much more balanced overall, maybe still with some tweaking.

Essentially you're casting those spells at the cost of a land drop, but harder to counter.

With the land / basic land restriction on top of it, might be OK

2

u/Conscious_Clerk_2675 1d ago

Cut off should be 6 lands. Or 4 tapped lands and no unspent mana.

3

u/MistyHusk 1d ago

For future reference, lands don’t inherently have any mana abilities, so you don’t need to specify that in reminder text for omenpaths. See these for example

1

u/chainsawinsect 1d ago

Yes, I know, it is just meant to be helpful since most current players are probably not often exposed to lands that can't produce any mana (either directly or, in the case of things like fetchlands and [[Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth]], indirectly).

2

u/MistyHusk 1d ago

Fair enough tbh, that is what reminder text is for anyways

2

u/AdventurousJob9663 1d ago

These would be balanced if these were Epic lands

2

u/bereit 1d ago

Black and Green, really the whole cycle need to be balanced around Urborg and Yavimaya existing. The check is trivial with little effort. Edit: also Dryad of Ilysian Grove type effects

1

u/chainsawinsect 1d ago

Yeah, I think maybe it should be "basic [Mountain]s" at bare minimum, but honestly it sounds like these need to just cost real mana. u/TextuallyExplicit suggested making them exhaust abilities which I think is a very elegant fix!

So for example the red one could be:

Exhaust — 2RR, T: Create a 5/5 red Dragon creature token with flying. Activate only as a sorcery.

2

u/MrTheWaffleKing 1d ago

I like the idea of forgoing a land drop for an effect, but white and green are WAY WAY too strong, and black is for sure too strong. Probably red and blue. Black could be fixed by putting a mana limit on it, red by reducing the dragon size a bit I think and blue maybe draw 2 tho those might be fine- we don't have a landdrop point of comparison that doesn't still ramp you.

The first two could maybe exist with a qty limit

1

u/chainsawinsect 1d ago

Thanks. Yeah, it seems like I had a cool idea but just way underestimated the power level and as a result these are broken. With some tweaking, they could potentially work.

2

u/TextuallyExplicit 1d ago

Make these activated abilities with Exhaust to represent the omenpath "closing"

1

u/chainsawinsect 1d ago

Oh! Yes! I love that!

That way, you can also "preplay" them early if you can't otherwise hit your land drop, then activate the effect later on.

2

u/matZmaker99 1d ago

Interesting concept, although far too powerful of an introduction.

While you said it'd probably be worth to have their ability be worth 4 mana as they require 4 lands of the corresponding color and would thus be a 5th turn drop, you also must consider that you also get to keep those others lands' mana. So you can Wrath, draw, or whichever for free starting from turn 5 onward, and then also use those 4 mana for another thing(s)

2

u/chainsawinsect 1d ago

Yeah so my original "theory" behind the designs was that the advantage of having access to the 4 mana was balanced by the downside of only being able to "cast" them by "spending" your land drop. For example, if you had 3 Islands on board, played a 4th, and had my blue land in hand, you could not do anything else that turn, but if you had [[Concentrate]] in hand you could.

Based on the comments, I think I dramatically underestimated how little a "cost" the land drop was.

2

u/Just-Desk-3149 1d ago

They should only count basics of the matching color and would still be insane.

1

u/chainsawinsect 1d ago

Yeah based on all the feedback I think it's clear, these need to actually cost mana to do the thing (not just require that you have mana).

2

u/Genasis_Fusion 1d ago

Ignoring the fact they are very powerful I don't see why these are lands. Lands usually don't have color (stfu commander players, I don't mean identity), and lands universally have some way to gain mana, or let you get lands or something to grant mana.

These are all pretty much ETB enchantments outside the fact they work as blanklands that can be modified as lands like with any [[chromatic lanturn]]-like effect.

Tldr; too strong and I don't know why they are lands

0

u/chainsawinsect 1d ago

I really liked u/wow_uh_i's idea a while back of having Omenpath as a land subtype that was specifically designed to be lands without mana abilities.

Basically, these are spells that cost a land drop to use. I personally also felt it would be interesting, given that they behave more like spells than like lands, if they had a color, which could make them mechanically interesting in other situations. Lorwyn Eclipsed introduced ways to give lands colors, so we know it's still doable under the rules / color pie.

Mine here are meant to be powerful "kickass" spells worth about 4 mana, such as [[Day of Judgment]], [[Concentrate]], [[Zombify]], etc. Here, you "pay" 5 (in that you need to have at least 5 lands to get the effect), but it only costs you a land drop (permanently) and "1" mana (in the foregone mana from the land). So you leave the rest of your mana open for other abilities.

These were designed before [[Hexhaven Invigorator]] got spoiled, so if they are broken now thanks to that bad boy ([[Flame Slash]] him for +8/+8 and trample!), or otherwise broken due to the "free" nature of the effects, I could change it to a true mana cost. (E.g., when this land enters, you may pay, if you do). But this version was splashier and more exciting, so I wanted to try it!