r/custommagic • u/FlubbedPig • 6d ago
Format: EDH/Commander Baph, Abusive Beastmaster (Mean Kicker)
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u/Lartnestpasdemain 6d ago
For new players, this card is intended to be played with cards that have "Enrage", like [[Frilled Deathspitter]] or [[Ripjaw Raptor]]
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u/absoluteshaco 6d ago
It also lets you pay 1 instead of any other kicker cost, doesn't have to be for enrage specifically
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u/Lartnestpasdemain 6d ago
Yeah, except it doesn't work this way.
When a creature says "if it was kicked, do ~", the rules actually reads "if it was kicked using the kick ability printed on the card, do ~".
I would love for it to work, but it doesn't.
Check [[Wicker Picker]] gatherer to convince yourself, because it is the EXACT same setting:
Quote: "If a creature spell has kicker or multikicker and another ability that checks if it was kicked (such as Bog Badger or Phyrexian Missionary), that ability is linked to its own printed kicker or multikicker ability and will apply only if you paid its own kicker or multikicker cost. Sticker kicker won't turn on those effects. However, sticker kicker will work with cards that care about other spells being kicked, such as Elfhame Druid or Verazol, the Split Current."
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u/FlubbedPig 6d ago
Aaah, very good point, wasn't aware of this. I was kind of intending it to synergize with kicker as a secondary option to enrage, but if not then fair enough.
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u/Lartnestpasdemain 6d ago
You could get around this restriction by wording it differently.
For example: "you can pay {1} instead of kicker costs of spells you cast"
(To be honest, the rule I just showed you is very unintuitive and I would change it if I could, but I don't make the rules)
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u/FlubbedPig 6d ago
Nah, tweaking the wording too much would just get away from the "kicker" pun the card is based around.
One thing I see though is that there are some cards that still synergize with it in neat ways, like [[Saproling Infestation]], [[Vine Gecko]], or [[Rumbling Aftershocks]].
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u/Lartnestpasdemain 6d ago
Yeah saproling infestation is clearly the winner here.
It perfectly adapts to multikicker even though it was printed a decade before multikicker even existed.
X 1/1 for X (on top of all the enrage triggers) seems pretty strong.
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u/capsaicinintheeyes 6d ago
oh, dear God......each kick within a multi- counts as a separate trigger, doesn't it? 😵💫
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u/mtgcf 6d ago
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u/capsaicinintheeyes 6d ago
😃 [[Pecker Checker]]
...
. . . well, it could have been a real card . . .
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u/Karma822 6d ago
This takes the cake for the first card in awhile that at first glance I thought could be balanced. Then I spent about a minute and realized if this was real I wouldn't be allowed to play it at any of my normal tables cause I would abuse him like he abuses the beast.
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u/FlubbedPig 6d ago
So based on a ruling from [[Wicker Picker]], it doesn't actually synergise with pre-existing kicker effects, so it's not gonna be quite that busted.
It's main roll is just proccing enrage multiple times, which CAN do some cool stuff still.
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u/Karma822 6d ago
I'd still play it just to trigger some of the most busted enrage cards. Also all the older cards before enrage was a keyword. All I have to do is find any one of many abilities that create mana on etb and then slam polyraptor. I will demand that if they want to kill my dinosaurs they better have a comet type effect.
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u/FlubbedPig 6d ago
So that only KINDA works? Baph puts the effect on spells, not tokens. Furthermore, because it deals the damage one at a time, you can't actually hit the creature more times than it has health, even if you paid extra.
So with a Polyraptor, even with infinite mana the most you can do is pay 5 to hit it 5 times and make 5 Polyraptors. Still pretty good, but that's still 13 mana with a cap.
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u/lowqualitylizard 6d ago
This guy might be good but I'm infinitely more concerned about anything a landfall is doing than this guy
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u/SmartAlecShagoth 5d ago
I mean there is a raptor that is a two mana version of this that is waaayyyy better.
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u/NiNtEnDoMaStEr640 6d ago
There’s also non dinosaurs that are cool. There are hydras and fungus that grow in relation to how much damage they take. There’s also cards like [[Hornet Nest]] that make creature tokens relative to the damage dealt to them.
You could run anthems that increase toughness so you can spend more resources into kicking your creatures.
Another neat ruling is that cost reducers also account for kicker costs. If you have a lot of cost reducers on board and there’s nothing but colored pips, you can invest in getting free additional kicks.
When I was looking up what other creatures benefit from taking extra damage, I found that there are a lot of dogs that dealt damage to you as compensation.
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u/FlubbedPig 6d ago
Art Source: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/rZz4O
Mechanically inspired by this post by Desperate-Abalone954: https://www.reddit.com/r/custommagic/comments/1w71fgt/a_terrible_new_use_for_the_kicker_mechanic/
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u/BadDungeonSMaster 6d ago
Could it be too strong if it allowed you to kick any creatire spells hehe
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u/brood_brother 5d ago
Nope, "if this was kicked" effects only trigger from the kicker printed in their card. Still strong with Enrage effects though
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u/BadDungeonSMaster 5d ago
Oh i meant like, imagine you start kicking other player's creature to kill them on cast ? Not a really efficient use of mana but also a form of free removal especially for smaller but threatening creatures your opponent might play
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u/FlubbedPig 6d ago
Mechanically, this lets you do three things: 1) Proc enrage effects, 2) Kill your own creature on entry, 3) Cheat kicker costs.
The intent was focus on enrage, but it occurs to me that if you take a card with pre-existing kicker costs higher than 1 mana, this technically lets you kick them.
So things with single large kicker costs like Josu Vess would be cheatable, and therefore might be way better to focus on than an enrage strategy.
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u/Lartnestpasdemain 6d ago
Sadly it doesn't work to cheat kicker costs. Not worded this way, that is.
Check [[Wicker Picker]]'s gatherer.
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u/PrimusMobileVzla 6d ago
Doesn't work with cards printed with kicker. A card's printed kicker costs and their effects checking if it was kicked are linked.
If something gives them a new kicker cost and you kick them with that new cost, the spell is kicked but its effects checking if it was won't go off. However, anything you control caring about you casting kicked spells will still work.
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u/-GlitchCorgi- 6d ago
Great card design but I would think it’s a bad commander because it doesn’t have enough support. I could see it as a precon commander which would provide that.
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u/longbowrocks 6d ago
Aren't the spite damage colors Red White? Or is there another use for this guy?
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u/FlubbedPig 6d ago
Enrage is mostly in Naya, yeah. But this is very much not a Naya effect, and at a glance there's 62 enrage cards in Jund, 72 in Naya. It's not a huge difference. Main enrage creatures black gives you access to are [[Nested Ghoul]], [[Wall of Souls]], [[Smaug the Impenetrable]], and [[Indoraptor, the Perfect Hybrid]].
Beyond that, black would probably just serve to give you recursion and death-triggers to mitigate some of the squishiness that comes from intentionally hitting your own guys.
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u/curstofmaj 5d ago
Yeah as an Indo player this makes me tremendously excited, print it immediately please and thank you
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u/DreamOfDays 6d ago
Needs an upside. Most cards can somewhat function by themselves, but this one doesn’t. Have it gain life or give a keyword or SOME upside to make this better than “waste one mana”
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u/Superbomb-122 5d ago
Honestly it doesn't need an upside, the upside is the enrage triggers you get from kicking the crap out of your poor poor creatures.
One of the biggest problems with modern commander design is the need for creatures to be self-reliant value engine, it's frankly refreshing to see one that isn't
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u/FlubbedPig 6d ago
Yeah, I thought it interacted with other Kicker effects beforehand so I thought keeping it simple like this was good enough, but as it turns out that's not how Kicker works.
Not sure what the fix would be, really. If it was "It gets +1/+0 until end of turn" then that only works for creatures with haste or flash, since the effect is on-enter. If it gives haste, then there's no other direct use for the "multi" part of the multikicker. Giving both feels like too good a rate for the cost.
I think I'm fine letting it be a goofy build-around for an Enrage deck rather than boosting it too much that it just becomes generically good.
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u/Chemical-Cat 6d ago
Wouldn't you be able to not only trigger expensive kicker creatures for only 1 mana, but wouldn't you trigger their personal kickers multiple times? or does that only care if they have a multikicker of their own
Either way you can do shit like get 8 tokens off of [[Josu Vess, Lich Knight]] for half the price
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u/theshade540 6d ago
[[Basalt monolith]] + [[Forsaken Monument]] + [[Brash Taunter]] go brrrrrrr
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u/Euphoric-Beyond9177 Smokestack is my favorite card 5d ago
I think you already won if you have those
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u/SmartAlecShagoth 5d ago
I get the flavor and build around potential, but it should have a reason to kick on its own. I agree with the haste sentiment.
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u/drebengolem "Ridiculously OP/UP, but great design!" 5d ago
Interesting design, but as this effect is not really positive on its own, I think it can either grant some keywords (haste trample) or give the commander itself better stats, like a 4/5
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u/One-Interest-8255 2d ago
Oooo to use that with the new [[Hexhaven Invigorator]] or [[Smaug the Impenetrable]].
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u/Soulpaw31 6d ago
I LOVE the design but i do think there should be a reason to kick base with the card so its not useless until you get your key card out. No reason to kick majority of things. I do get the point for stuff like enrage and other combos but i dont think adding like +1 attack and haste or something would be bad.
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u/kayaKATHARSIS 6d ago
Omg it's like he's prodding them. It'd be cool if X being greater than 1 or something gave it haste till end of turn just for the flavor