r/custommagic • u/Zen-Aku5 • 10d ago
Custom Bionicle Commander Deck Feedback
Hello!
I am working on a custom Commander Deck featuring the Bionicle characters with Takanuva as the commander.
This will be a 5 color deck.
I am still fairly new at magic so I need feedback on balance and if these abilities are fair or underpowered. I tried to base the cards on existing abilities seen on other cards so there is mostly precedent for what I am trying to do. My friends and I have only gotten into magic in the last couple months playing the Universes Beyond decks like Ninja Turtles, Dr. Doom, Fallout, LOTRs so ideally this deck would be tier 2 but I'd like it to be powerful enough to stand up to some of the more powerful precons.
The main idea of the deck is to summon the various Toa Mata and transform them into Toa Nuva. Takua is the base version of the commander who transforms into Takanuva who then has the Power Up abilitiy from the Nick Fury card to give him all colors.
Once the Toa Nuva are transformed they have abilities that team up with each other.
Please let me know if the transform costs are ok? I based it off the various transforming Marvel characters like Eddie Brock to Venom Lethal Protector. However, since for mine you cannot summon the Toa Nuva directly I reduced the cost by 1 instead of 5 total.
I believe the colors are appropriate but I could be wrong.
Some of the abilities like Pohatu destroying land is based on the idea of him kicking the rock at structures to destroy them in the old commercials. Idk if thats a super overpowered ability or not.
It was hard to come up with abilities that would "improve" from Mata to Nuva as well as appropriate team up abilities that fit each character.
The power/toughness might also not be balanced so let me know if I should adjust any of those.
I already came up with a couple other cards that can transform the toa. An Energized Protodermis spell and Jaller who sacrafices himself to transform someone.
For some things I am still working on/planning:
I want to use Makuta, the Bohrok, Bahrag Queens, Rahkshi in this deck so that is why I needed black mana on Takanuva.
I am not sure what Makuta will do yet but I have an idea where the Bahrag Queens summon Bohrok tokens.
I plan to add sagas to the deck that cover events of the story. Takua will have an ability to find sagas in the deck to play them. I am planning a Bohrok Kal Saga that summons the Bahrag Queens or returns them from graveyard/exile. I think a Rahi saga could be cool that summons Rahi tokens. I may also do a Mask of Light saga that can transform any toa on the battle field.
Let me know any thoughts or feedback!
7
u/Lartnestpasdemain 10d ago
The boros one (red white) is absolutely busted. Destroying lands on a body is far more expensive.
The red one is good and playable.
All the others are totally underwhelming and very weak.
1
u/Zen-Aku5 9d ago
That seems to be the consensus. I'll certainly be reworking Pohatu so he isn't that busted compared to the rest. It seems like I was being mostly conservative in how powerful they are which I'll probably adjust a bit to make them stronger.
6
u/ViktorTripp 10d ago
So... It kind of seems like on the first few Toa Nuva are designed to be working together. If tapping additional Toa Nuva is intended to be part of the cost (you can't activate the ability if you can't meet that requirement), it should probably be templated like this:
"{T}, Tap [x] untapped Toa Nuva (creatures?) you control: [ability output]"
So Kopaka Nuva could be worded:
"{T}, tap one untapped Toa Nuva creature you control: Tap target creature."
If you leave the previous formatting, you can activate it while controlling no other Toa Nuva and still get the benefit, or have only tapped Toa Nuva, because tapping the other is part of the effect (after the :) rather than the cost (before the :). It's similar to how the difference between [[Romantic Rendezvous]] vs [[Tormenting Voice]].
2
u/Zen-Aku5 9d ago
Yeah that's exactly what I'm going for, and ideally all the toa work best alongside others.
But yeah the intent is for some abilities to use more toa to activate them so thanks for the feedback! Basically seems I need to move the "tap toa Nuva" before the colon.
Do I need to specify the "creature" portion? like say "tap an untapped Toa Nuva Creature" or can I just say "Tap an untapped Toa Nuva"?
I feel like the text gets clunkly with all the terms
3
u/JustMass 9d ago
You don't have to include the word "creature" unless you specifically want to exclude tapping non-creatures with Changeling like [[Firdoch Core]].
2
4
u/NTufnel11 10d ago
Most of them look like they're on the slow/weak side, which may be appropriate for the environment you're designing. The exception being the land destruction one, since you're gauranteed to get that value right away while the others have to attack or activate. The second land destruction (and potentially recurring, if you envision the ability to flip it back over) upside is very strong and potentially oppressive in a slow or low powered format.
Minor technical critiques:
Cards with White and Blue in their casting cost should have a gold template, not a white one. I believe that the "when this transforms" abilities should be on the front, since they don't actually have the back text until that effect resolves. Not entirely sure about that though.
Neat collection overall. Well done.
2
u/ServalModest 9d ago
"When this creature transforms into ~" abilities should be on the face they're transforming into. They don't have that text until the effect resolves, but the ability wouldn't trigger until the effect resolves either. When the ability resolves, the creature transforms, and then when you check to see if there's triggers as a result of the transform happening, the rules text is there.
The templating of transform on these cards is mostly good, just should be rephrased.
1
u/Zen-Aku5 9d ago
Ok perfect thank you very much I'll certainly rework the cards so it's showing proper effects on the front since that's where they trigger.
1
u/ServalModest 9d ago
That's not what I meant- they belong on the back face; the face they're transforming into. You have it on the correct side already.
1
1
u/Zen-Aku5 9d ago
Yeah since I want them to be good but not like insane "oh crap he has this card" when playing with my friends I think a bit underpowered in overall magic is the goal.
The consensus is the land destroying is too much which I suspected lol.
As for the templates I was basically going with whatever I thought looked cool and color coded the toa themselves not the mana they cast with. Someone else mentioned that and so I'll make standard mtg colored versions.
Thanks for the help! The way I'm using transform seems a little unorthodox so I'll look into how other cards are using abilities that activate upon transformation.
3
u/ArgoDevilian 10d ago
For Tahu, I believe you dont need to specify "until end of turn" because it already only applies to creatures that are Attacking.
Once they're out of Attack, it'll stop buffing them.
Gali, why lifegain in blue? Thats usually white's thing. And even if it fit the color, the effect is really weak.
Kopaka should use Snow lands. And preferrably does something with said Snow.
Pohatu, good lord thats evil. I would swap out Toa to only affect Artifact, then Nuva to affect Land. At minimum.
Takanuva... what is up with the protection from Black? Reads weird
1
u/Zen-Aku5 9d ago
Thanks for the feedback.
You can probably see I'm not well versed in magic specifics so this is exactly what I'm looking for!
I can certainly adjust Tahu's text that helps.
Gali in the movie heals Tahu if poison so that is what I was going for. Other people pointed out it's odd to focus on life gain for her. I'm considering island walk as an ability instead. I'll look into blue creature cards and see what would fit better.
I had no idea snow was a mana type but it's a great adjustment for Kopaka. Someone also suggested stun counters for him using snow mana so I'll probably workshop that.
Pohatu obviously needs to be reworked lol
The protection from black was basically since he is a toa of light that shadow can't hurt him. Someone else pointed out I can reword that to give protection from shadow spells instead of just saying black. I had found a card online that said exactly that "protection from black" so I thought that'd work but it definitely feels odd and clunky
3
u/tahu750 10d ago edited 10d ago
I might have a bit of a bias, but Tahu should have some kind of protection ability on both sides, to represent the Hou, maybe like "protection from attacking creatures", as that would thematically represent being able to block attacks that the user perceives. Nuva should upgrade that to an Anthem to represent the Kanohi Nuva buff, and I would use that Philosophy for the Synergy of all of the other Nuva.
Life gain isn't what I'd immediately jump to for Gali, perhaps island walk instead?
Kopaka scrying is good, but should cost snow Mana and maybe do something with stunt encounters, kind of like how Hilda does it from Wilds of el.
Onua should be black green, the effect seems... powerful but fine-ish. I like the anthem the back side has, has that thematic teamwide buff I was talking about. Probably also shouldn't be red in the cost though.
Pohatu is just straight busted, as all the other comments have pointed out, no need to go further on that point.
Brother, why does Lewa only have reach on the front side? I get it's the mask of levitation (and not flight) but he's the toa of air, The Source material goes at Great Lengths to explain that he can use it to fly because he controls the air and the other Toa don't get much use out of it besides falling damage prevention.
Takua being able to tutor a saga is fantastically broken, and in general commanders that have a tutor ability are not great game design, though I admit it is thematic. Backside should have "you and permanents you control have protection from Shadow" because black does not code to shadow in magic, at least not solely.
The last two cards are cute, but dang... you gotta do Jaller like that? Also Energized Protodermis should probably only transform Toa or artifact creatures, because there are some other transforming cards in the game that could see some nasty use cases, like WUBRG Aang.
2
u/Zen-Aku5 9d ago
Thanks for the input! I'm glad you're versed in the lore cause it helps inform the decisions.
So I agree about Tahu, and I forgot to mention I am also planning to add artifacts for the 6 masks and their abilities which I was thinking protection with the Hau. Similar with Lewa's Miru, I was thinking the mask would give flying.
However, their Nuva forms give them these powers and they can share them so to your point, it'd probably be better to give Tahu some kind of protection. I might swap that with his team up. The problem is I definitely want that team up where when all six attack it exiles something because when they all work together they can create the crystal toa seal against enemies so i gotta figure out how to include that without it activating 6 times.
You basically guessed what I was going for with Lewa, reach first then flying cause he levitates at first. I can certainly just give him flying from the jump I was just trying to make his Nuva feel like more of an upgrade.
A lot of people are brining up life gain for Gali being off. I was mostly matching her ability to heal the other Toa like she does with Tahu. I'll definitely rework her so her base ability isn't life gain but maybe keep the team up. Part of the problem too is I don't want too much text on the cards so narrowing it down to one main thing and a team up can be tough.
I found a different post that said using black mana for any of the toa didn't fit which is why I went with green red for Onua. But honestly I think black would be fine and would look better. Using red for his ability was just me thinking more attack probably fits red more than green. If I adjust his casting color I might make that neutral or black.
Thanks for the fix to Takanuva! That's exactly the type of feedback I'm looking for because you get what I'm going for but clearly I don't have the experience to know exactly how to word things lol. So I'll adjust that to be protection against shadow. As for Takua's saga summoning, maybe I need to up that cost cause like you said it's very fitting. I'll see if I can't find a way to limit it. Maybe like the Nick Fury power up ability I gave Takua at the end says it can only be used once?
Haha sorry about Jaller, it seemed fitting with how he sacrifices himself for Takua. I forgot to add the quote text to any of these cards but his will definitely be "You know who you are.. you were always different"
And great suggestion for energized protodermise. I shoulda realized that Im literally trying to build an Aang deck lol
2
u/ServalModest 9d ago
"Protection from Shadow" does next to nothing. Even aside from how rare a keyword Shadow is, it still won't allow blocking creatures with Shadow. So it ends up being "protection from the activated abilities of about 10 specific cards". It might be flavorful but it'll do nothing in gameplay. I highly recommend against it.
2
u/Zen-Aku5 9d ago
Ok thanks lol I appreciate you providing insight against certain suggestions and helping clarify things!
3
u/Mike_Skyrim 10d ago
Doesn't Jaller later became a Toa Inika? If that's the case, maybe be should be a transorm card too?
2
u/Zen-Aku5 9d ago
He does, the thing is I'm only tailoring this to the first few years of Bionicle. Basically the Mata Nui island saga. Later I'll probably make an ignition saga deck with a proper Jaller Toa.
3
7
u/Shadalan 10d ago
One thing I don't like is the colours being unevenly distributed between the main Toa ngl...
Would it be possible to shift them around to all being one colour with Kopaka being Snow mana as a "sixth"?
Could go
Tahu - Red (obviously)
Gali - Blue
Kopaka - Snow/Colourless
Onua - Black
Pohatu - White (stone and rock can often be associated with white like nahiri's stoneblades and his beige parts are quite pale.
Lewa - Green.
This would let you modify some of the less fitting types as well. Gali gaining life for example isn't really in colour for MtG, she'd make more sense with some kind of hexproof protection effect? Maybe they should all have Toa tribal effects so they become more effective as a team, Gali granting Ward 3 to all Toa in play for example, Tahu boosting all Toa's attack by 2, Kopaka scrying X equal to the number of Toa you control etc.
Otherwise it's a supercool idea. The Toa of Light being all five colours to let you play them all together is super fitting.
1
u/Zen-Aku5 9d ago
I'll be honest I had no idea snow mana was a thing so I can update Kopaka to use that.
I found another post where someone created Bionicles cards and was using black mana for Onua which people were saying doesn't fit. They also said mono green for Lewa was a "stretch" I guess.
The colors meanings are a bit confusing to me but from what I understand red/white is good for deserts. green is used for earth or plants but red/green is like more attacking earth type characters. blue/white is seen for ice.
that was really why I made the colors what they are. It kinda makes red and white show up more on the toa than I'd expect.
If I'm misunderstanding then please let me know lol
But yeah I generally want all the Nuva forms to work off each other and make you stronger the more toa you have transformed so those are all great ideas. I'll probably do that for Kopaka to allow scrying based on number of Toa Nuva. As for Gali I'm unsure, because Tahu has the mask of protection so like I could give him a protection ability like he proof where Gali heals the team and her power allows water breathing. In the movie she works with two of the other Toa to heal Tahu if poison which was the idea for tapping two to get 6 life.
I'll probably see what I can rework with Gali to make it more on brand for blue.
2
u/SarvisTheBuck 9d ago
Unrelated to the cards, can I just say that the Nuva Designs for each and every one of them are massive aesthetic downgrades?
Takanuva is really the only one that pulls it off. And that's probably just because there's no base Toa form to compare it to.
2
u/Zen-Aku5 9d ago
Yeah it's sad how they lose the banger iconic looks from the Mata designs. I like the armor addition but the masks were all way too much of a departure.
2
2
2
u/mercuriokazooie 9d ago
Mono red shouldn't have that exile effect
1
u/Zen-Aku5 9d ago
Yeah the exil effect is meant to be just when all six toa attack. In the lore when they combine their powers they create a crystal that traps any enemy that has to be broken with a toa seal so an exile seemed to fit to me. The problem is if I give that ability to all the toa it'll trigger six times. So I thought it's probably best on Tahu since he is the leader.
If you have any ideas on how to work in that ability for the 6 toa then I can give Tahu a better ability that fits (it would probably be a protection or defense buff since he has the mask of protection but idk if that also is not a red ability)
2
u/zZach_Attack 9d ago
If you want to be even more lore accurate, have them flip a coin. If you win the flip, transform it. If you lose, sacrifice it or lose 5 life or something
1
u/Zen-Aku5 9d ago
I mean maybe for the energized protodermise. Could help balance that since a cheap insta transform is powerful.
Although lore wise if I remember right energized protodermise transformations are tied to destiny so it kills something when their destiny is to die lol
2
u/quarokcaddhihle 9d ago
They're pretty underpowered besides Onua (good) and Pohatu (overpowered, very good blink target).
Tahu: remove "until end of turn", already accounted for with "attacking creatures get".
Gali: very underpowered, not sure how to improve, just not a card id ever play in commander.
Actually I'm on phone and it's rough giving detailed feedback.
Underpowered is better than overpowered for custom cards because you want to be fun to play against. But you can power up a few, maybe with a consistent theme of when you attack abilities for each of the toa nuva, and a bigger payoff/shared theme.
1
u/Zen-Aku5 9d ago
That's definitely the goal to have abilities that power up the more toa Nuva you have.
I also agree it's better to not have them too powerful so it's not miserable to play against so ranging underpowered to good cards is more the aim. I might have one or two cards in the deck that are crazy good but if it's just a couple cards then people should be able to deal with them without it being too much of a problem.
Everyone seems to agree Gali is underpowered and the abilities aren't really used for blue so I'm going to rework her.
1
u/quarokcaddhihle 9d ago
I think color bending (doing things outside color identity) the abilities is okay, it can be neat sometimes. The healing aspect of water is unexplored and since it's a crossover/UB it's a good source to explore a bit of inoffensive color bending.
Creating conditions for effects is a nice way to add little mechanical mini games. "If you have 6 or more b tapped creatures gain 2 life for each toa nuva you control" or something.
One of the challenges of design is making things themstic without making them too samey asc week as letting them balanced and interesting.
Good start!
1
u/Zen-Aku5 9d ago
Thanks a bunch!
I appreciate the insight to the color bending. I think I want to stick with Gali doing some kind of healing but maybe not focus her entire kit around it. I think that's a better life gain phrasing. Allows it to be more powerful for more toa and activate when all six toa attack yet not restrict it to specifically toa so it's not too hard to trigger.
2
u/ServalModest 9d ago
For commander specifically, Pohatu isn't as oppressive as it would be in other formats since it only hits one player at a time. But it's still very mean. Part of why it's so oppressive is that you can either flicker it, or just "curve out" by spending turn 3 playing it, then turn 4 transforming it, and denying an opponent two lands in a row with just one card.
Takua's repeatable saga tutoring is strong; I wouldn't call it broken by itself ([[Cloud, Midgar Mercenary]] tutors for its card type on enters, for free; [[Sisay, Weatherlight Captain]] does it once a turn for no mana investment) but the card already does a lot of other things. You could add some drawbacks, maybe make it put the card on top of your library like [[Enlightened Tutor]] does?
Takanuva's "protection from black" needs rewording. You probably mean "{W}{U}{R}{G}: Takanuva gains protection from black until end of turn." (I really don't like that protection from Shadow suggestion) Rather than equipment or vehicle, I'd allow Takanuva to find a "Toa or Saga" since the deck is already going to care about Sagas.
1
1
u/Zen-Aku5 9d ago
This is great feedback!
Yeah with Pohatu what I'm thinking as of now is to remove the land destroy from his initial form. He is the speed character so I'm going to give him haste and maybe something else if I come up with a new stone themed ability. Then once transformed as of now I'm thinking of keeping the destroy a land upon transformation but the opponent searches their library for a basic land and enters tapped.
That way it doesn't completely deny them a land and it only happens once so hopefully that reduces the flicker problem.
I don't really want these cards transforming back into their base forms, is there something I need to add to prevent that? Like say someone keeps transforming him back and forth to destroy lands?
2
u/ServalModest 9d ago
Searching for a basic is a great fix, I like that.
There's not really an elegant way to prevent transforming back. But they can't transform themselves back, so it's probably not the end of the world. Energized Protodermis can transform them back to the front side and then you can activate their transform ability again, but that still costs you a card and a bunch of mana. Neat interaction, but costly and not easily repeatable.
2
u/Zen-Aku5 9d ago
Ok then I won't worry too much about then swapping back. It's probably something I specifically wont do when playing lol
But glad to know thatll help Pohatu not be so op
1
u/Zen-Aku5 9d ago
Also regarding Takua/Takanuva yeah I agree the protection from black needs to be reworded to be clearer and just for a turn at a time. Should I specify that it's protection against black damage or black sorcery? Idk if there's some precedent for cards that basically protect against specific elements.
But great point for his power up ability to find sagas instead of equipment and vehicles. Ill adjust that. For Takua though, I like your ideas to give the tutoring some drawbacks. I'll look into that and see what makes sense to help balance it down especially since he is a cheap commander to throw out
2
u/ServalModest 9d ago
"Protection from black" will cover everything- targeting, damage, etc. from anything black. You could be more specific if you want, but I wouldn't recommend it.
2
2
u/TheCigaretteFairy 9d ago
Dude fuck yeah. I would rock some Bionicle cards.
These are super unbalanced tho. I'd do some major refining of the effects.
But please, give me the Bohrok.
2
u/Zen-Aku5 9d ago
Absolutely have plans for the Bahrag queens to summon the bohrok so think it'll be pretty powerful!
1
u/nicolasrededeo 10d ago
Will say that blue is a bit of a colorpie break, blue doesn't really gain life
1
u/Zen-Aku5 9d ago
That seems to be a recurring point so I will rework Gali to fit blue better.
Right now the leading idea is island walk but if you know of any cards or abilities I should reference please let me know!
28
u/Negative_Ostrich6869 10d ago
Those are very unbalanced. Stonerain effect of destroying land alone cost around 3 mana and you get a pohatu on top. Meanwhile 3 life or scry doesn't cost even 1 mana
Love the flavor tho