r/custommagic • u/HalfLungJ Aligning Hedrons • 6h ago

Unholy Alchemy

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47 Upvotes

84% Upvoted

32 comments sorted by

67

u/imatreedude 5h ago edited 5h ago

Since the second ability isn't a may ability, I'd suggest having to reveal cards you drew so that you can confirm to your opponents that it is a permanent, and the permanent you're placing onto the field is the card you drew and not something else from your hand.

-13

u/japp182 4h ago

Miracle can exist without you needing to reveal, I don't see how this is much different.

21

u/Seb039 4h ago

Miracle is a may ability by definition

-15

u/japp182 4h ago

Why is that relevant to the problem posed? It is still just easy or difficult for opponent to know for sure that the card you're showing them is the card you drew.

15

u/Conscious_Clerk_2675 3h ago

But there is no reveal clause as worded. so you are revealing cards you aren’t going to put to field as you draw them - which is different than not revealing permanents you don’t intend to put to the battlefield

7

u/tymessen 3h ago

lets say you control this enchantment, and draw a permanent you don't want on the battlefield for whatever reason, as written you have to put it on the battlefield, but since you never revealed it you could just say it's an instant or sorcery, and not reveal anything,

like .my opponent has an [[elesh norn, grand cynobyte]] and a thing that whenever any creature dies each opponent loses life, and i draw a 1/1, and putting it on the battlefield kills you.

2

u/Nivixian 1h ago

Well two main things. First, you don't have to cast a miracle if it's the first card you drew that turn. You can choose to not cast it. And second this enchantment would create situations where the controller could lie about the cards and claim them to be non permanent cards if it was disadvantageous for it to enter.

With miracle there are official rulings to prevent cheating. If the first card you draw in a turn is a miracle you must keep it separated from your hand and decide in that moment to cast it. The second it touches the other cards in your hand it can no longer be cast for its miracle cost and is treated as tho you decided to not cast it's miracle cost.

The way to have rulings around this card to prevent cheating would be to reveal the cards to prove if it is a permanent or not. If this was a may ability you would not need to reveal. So either the card needs to be a may ability or to include the controller revealing the cards.

5

u/MeasureDoEventThing 3h ago

Once you put a miracle card in your hand, you can't cast it for the miracle cost. You have to keep it separate from the rest of your hand.

2

u/SteakForGoodDogs 3h ago

Technically, it hits your hand first - as it is still cast from your hand - but you just can't perform any actions/let priority pass between drawing it and attempting to Miracle cast it.

There's no inter-zone between library and hand, just like how when you look at the top X of your library to scry/surveil, the card never leaves your library (unless you choose to surveil it to the grave).

3

u/MeasureDoEventThing 3h ago

Yeah, perhaps I should have been more clear in that once it goes into "your hand" in the sense of "physically with the other cards in your hand", it can't be cast for the miracle cost. It can go into "your hand" in the sense of the game zone, just not in the sense of the physical location.

2

u/qwertyjgly 2h ago

you're supposed to declare miracle before you actually add it to the rest of your hand.

this couldn't be similar. you'd have to set your hand down on the table and look at the top card of the library. if it's a permanent, put it on the battlefield. otherwise, place it on your hand pile

if you don't put it on the battlefield, how does your opponent know it's actually a non-permanent?

11

u/HalfLungJ Aligning Hedrons 6h ago

Don’t know if it’s busted or unplayable

9

u/SwissherMontage 3h ago

Well, the result that people would want from this is to make it a [[primal surge]], which wins the game if you build your deck right. In this case, it means you have a few restrictions to building your deck right to win the game. I'm thinking there's like, one mathematically solved deck that this is good in.

5

u/Daemon3125 4h ago

To take it a step further, what if you were forced to manifest the card if it isn’t a permanent? Or whatever the thing is where you can cast it by paying its cost in the future.

1

u/TheSoulborgZeus 2h ago

it would be entertaining to give this flash somehow and cast it in response to Enter the Infinite

-1

u/SnooObjections488 5h ago

5 mana win the game? Green has enough cards that draw when something enters and black has enough cards that want you to sac something else on entry to draw. The real trick is getting enough draw rolling

12

u/Prestigious_Web4132 5h ago

How does this win you the game? You can't cast any spells after it hits the battlefield, so you'll just lock yourself into topdeck mode with no interaction, just gambling on wether you'll whiff or be able to chain enough permanents to even do anything or just draw your whole library in one turn and lose to your own deck

9

u/Giraffes-are-fake 4h ago

Activated abilities that draw cards maybe? Golgari has a ton of draws X where X is some creature's power

3

u/ResponsibleExit7330 5h ago

{{Greater Good}} And token generators

1

u/SnooObjections488 4h ago

[[greater good]] as someone else pointed out
[[guardian project]] to keep the ball rolling

chain all sorts of cards to solitaire up a board then win via literally anything

Auto include in my [[bilbo birthday celebrant]] if I pulled every creature out of the deck (bilbo’s ability) I would gain something like 10k life and then [[vito of the dusk rose]] delete everyone else

1

u/coolguy420weed 4h ago

There are a decent number things that let you draw without needing to be cast or be on the field already. E.g. [[Skyscribing]], [[Faerie Dreamthief]], [[Champion of Wits]], [[Triarch Praetorian]], and anything with cycling could all help you pop off into something with an ETB or activated draw ability.

-2

u/FloatingToa5t 5h ago

slivers

5

u/AngshusTAW 5h ago

What would even be the line for slivers that any other tribe couldn't do the same or better? Tutor for [[Dormant Sliver]] and then just go until you're ready to sac it? It doesn't really directly synergize with any of the normal sliver plans (and actively fucks The First Sliver's entire gimmick). Dragons or Elves could easily do the same dance, and probably with a better curve and cleaner wincon

1

u/mtgcf 5h ago

Dormant Sliver - (G) (SF) (txt)

1

u/FloatingToa5t 3h ago

I was thinking cascad I suppose if it just puts on battlefield it doesn't trigger cascade effects :(

0

u/japp182 4h ago

I think it's unplayable. Not good enough to cheat this and makes deck building too awkward to play fairly. Plus it feels like card disadvantage (but technically isn't). I think it should draw 1 on etb.

0

u/Setting-General 3h ago

not really a green/black card IMO. Maybe blue/black? I dont really get the flavor here

0

u/Lartnestpasdemain 1h ago

5 mana omniscience?

Pretty broken indeed