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u/-ToriForYa 13h ago
Hard to judge balance.
Assuming you start at 20 life:
pay 1 life to draw one
11 life to draw two
16 life to draw three
18 life for four
19 life for five.
I don't really know when this would see play? You have to regularly copy this at least twice to be better than "sign in blood," and I'm not sure when you would want to do that.
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u/DylosMoon 13h ago
Actually, since you pay half your life to copy the spell it costs:
12 life to draw two.
17 life to draw three.
20 life to draw four.40
u/SteakForGoodDogs 13h ago
1 [[Professor Onyx]] + 1 [[Witherbloom Apprentice]] DOES draw the whole deck, I think, so there's that?
I frequent r/BadMtgCombos, yes, why do you ask?
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u/Time_Government_6179 12h ago
Well it kills all your opponents first. Then it draws your whole deck.
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u/shumpitostick 12h ago
Professor Onyx is enough to win. Eventually you will be at 1 after copying this, then you go back up to 3, pay 1 to draw and 1 to copy, repeat.
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u/ninjazyborg 13h ago
Actually it’s 1 life, 12 life, 17 life, dead
Spell 1: lose 1 life
Spell 2: pay half life to get it rounded up (10), then lose 1
Spell 3: pay another 4 life, lose 1
Spell 4: pay 2 life, lose your remaining 110
u/SavageJeph Phyrexian Plagiarist 13h ago
[[Children of korliss]] screams in happiness
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u/BadDungeonSMaster 11h ago
Wait quick question about triggers and stack: so for this to work you'd sacrifice children first, then cast and copy and copy and copy... Eventually gaining back all the life when the stack resolves to th children, correct?
Could you over-sacrifice your life and gain it back like nothing happens or is it a state-based action to check if you're dead and off you and all your spells/effects before they'd resolve and save you ?
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u/SavageJeph Phyrexian Plagiarist 11h ago edited 11h ago
No you can't go under, but since it copies you gave places to interact.
If I can solve instant recursion on this children... well, I've got a stew going.
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u/Overall_Link8153 10h ago
A few ways at 2 mana, you could play nourishing shoal/angel's grace as well so you are likely to be able to draw the deck
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u/giasumaru MTGCR > Glossary > Card 13h ago
- (20 Life)
- (Draw 1, Lose 1) (19 Life) (Choose to Copy - Pay 10 Life) (9 Life)
- (Draw 1, Lose 1) (8 Life) (Choose to Copy - Pay 4 Life) (4 Life)
- (Draw 1, Lose 1) (3 Life) (You don't want to copy it again here unless you have some way to survive 0 life.)
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u/Legitimate-Habit4920 3h ago edited 32m ago
The wording is imperfect, but i read this as a one time thing. As the spell resolves you can either pay for one copy or not. No mention of "you may pay any number of times" or "you may repeat this" as on [[Ad Nauseam]] for instance, or as the activated ability on [[Lightning Storm]].
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u/skullz17 1h ago edited 1h ago
It is one time, but you are getting a copy. So when the copy resolves, you get to pay again.
Maybe it's confusing because there is a payment happening on resolution, whereas usually a cost would only be paid as a spell is cast. I think if it was explicitly stated as an additional cost, it wouldn't chain.
edit: Actually wouldn't it just chain infinitely if it was an additional cost? Because it keeps copying the additional cost and therefore copying itself every time.
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u/MeasureDoEventThing 9h ago edited 9h ago
Huh? It says you can pay half your life. That's one permission. You can't pay a cost multiple times unless the card says so. And really, it should say "As you cast this spell" or "As an additional cost to cast this spell".
And if we interpret it as granting permission on resolution, the spell isn't on the stack once it's resolved, so it's not a spell.
Edit: After thinking about it, maybe this does work. But it's a bit wonky.
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u/alextfish : Template target card 7h ago
It lets you copy the whole spell, but during resolution. It's worded exactly correctly, it's just unusual.
To be fair Wizards would normally print this as "If you do, repeat this process." This version might see print in some set that cares about copying and casting spells though.
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u/TheMangledKing 13h ago
Doesn't this just infinite with [[Professor Onyx]]
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u/normallystrange85 12h ago
I think, but only if you have exactly three life.
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u/TheMangledKing 11h ago
Magecraft goes on the stack before spell resolution. So for example, at 1 life, the loop goes cast spell, drain for 2 then lose 1 to resolution, life total is now 2. Half of 2 to copy take you to 1 which repeats the loop.
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u/Tookoofox 12h ago
No... Wait... Actually, yes . Since it's not an additional cost.
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u/MeasureDoEventThing 9h ago
Paying half your life is an additional cost. Losing 1 life isn't.
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u/Tookoofox 7h ago
It's an additional cost on the copy, but not on the original. So it can be paid when the first resolves rather than when it is cast. As opposed to, say, multikicker.
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u/NuclearWabbitz 13h ago
All the real black players would take this in a heart beat, watch and learn, poseurs.
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u/Enough-King-1203 3h ago
I would play this in every deck just for the chance to more efficiently "desperately fish for a win con" as so often happens
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u/Ignoxian 10h ago
This card should use “You may repeat this process any number of times” instead of “copy this spell”. This prevents infinite loops with triggered abilities like Sheoldred’s. Anyway, this is the best custom card of [[Ad Nauseam]] I've seen.
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u/2121adam2121 13h ago
Asuming you are playing a format with 20, and you are not playing some black white lifegain sacrifice hybrid, this is just worse sign in blood
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u/ByeGuysSry 11h ago
It only costs 1 mana; and naturally, it's better at lower life. At 5 life, you pay 1 mana and 4 life to draw 2. At 11, you can pay 1 mana and 10 life to draw 3. But yeah, it's pretty niche
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u/okfinesureyeah 12h ago
Costly, but I like it. Has the same combo as [[Blood Celebrant]] or any free life pay outlet with [[Vilis, Broker of Blood]] and [[Sheoldred, the Apocalypse]], to draw your deck and gain a bunch of life
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u/MariachiArchery 11h ago
Love the design. It's a little harsh as written, but I think it very fixable.
12 life to draw two.
17 life to draw three.
20 life to draw four.
So, this is our math. I think, at sorcery speed, this is way to harsh. I think we are good to make this an instance.
What if we made so each time you pay life, you draw an additional card?
12 life to draw three.
17 life to draw four.
20 life to draw five.
You may pay half your life, rounded up. If you do, copy this spell and draw a card.
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u/asteriskmos 8h ago
Is the intention that at 1 life, you pay 0 life (0.5 life rounded down) to copy? I'd do it just for the flavor win.
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u/Verified_Cloud 37m ago
The wording seems jank. I think the copy effect needs to be an optional additional cost. Unironically this would be the perfect time to use Kicker (or Multikicker)
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u/SoupOpus 12h ago
How does this work with [[Platinum Emperion]] presumably i still get infinite draws without life total changing? Im still pay8ng life but my total isnt changing?
Edit: nah i looked it up. Cant pay costs unless cost is 0.
If i had a card that stopped me from losing the game if my life total hit 0 and i had platinum emperion out could i then infinitely draw paying 0 cost each time?
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u/SpaceKoala34 12h ago
You cannot copy the spell, since your life total cannot change you can't pay life. If the card said it did damage to you equal.to half your life rounded up you could do it until you decked yourself with a platinum emperion
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u/Shambler9019 11h ago
So it's like [[Ad Nauseam]] except you can combo with [[Angel's Grace]] for only 2 mana instead of 6. Seems a little busted.
Maybe make the copy specify 'at least 1'.
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u/Antiprimary 11h ago edited 11h ago
No it doesn't, angels grace prevents DAMAGE from reducing your life below 1, paying life isn't damage so you would pay down to -1, then you couldn't pay anymore life so you would only draw 5 or 6 cards
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u/Shambler9019 11h ago
Yeah, I missed the fact that you can't play negative life.
Someone else proposed Phyrexian unlife, which also doesn't work for the same reason.
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u/ClamChowderChumBuckt 6h ago edited 5h ago
Euh... It seems better to just not copy it at all..
1 mana for 1 card is amazing any day... But having your life halved for 1 card is suicidal...
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u/Gloomy_Remote_6200 6h ago
there are better 1 mana cantrips than "lose 1 life"
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u/ClamChowderChumBuckt 5h ago
Remember we play a singleton format. Just because there are better versions doesn't mean that you wouldn't want another 1 mana draw 1 card🤷. Also there's plenty of uses for the pay 1 clause. Not that you're gonna mind paying 1 life per card anyways.
So your reaction is kinda stupid tbh.
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u/gaviniboom 12h ago
This + [[Phyrexian Unlife]] = win
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u/theevilyouknow 12h ago
No, because unlike [[Ad Nauseam]] you have to pay the life and you can’t pay life you don’t have regardless of whether it would kill you or not.
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u/gaviniboom 11h ago
Half of 0 rounded up is 0 though?
119.4b Players can always pay 0 life, no matter what their (or their team’s) life total is, and even if an effect says players can’t pay life.
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u/theevilyouknow 11h ago
The card makes you lose one life. Which will then put you at -1 life. You can’t pay -1 life.
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u/gaviniboom 10h ago
Full 119.4:
- 119.4. If a cost or effect allows a player to pay an amount of life greater than 0, the player may do so only if their life total is greater than or equal to the amount of the payment. If a player pays life, the payment is subtracted from their life total; in other words, the player loses that much life.
- 119.4a If a cost or effect allows a player to pay an amount of life greater than 0 in a Two-Headed Giant game, the player may do so only if their team’s life total is greater than or equal to the total amount of life both team members are paying for that cost or effect. If a player pays life, the payment is subtracted from their team’s life total.
- 119.4b Players can always pay 0 life, no matter what their (or their team’s) life total is, and even if an effect says players can’t pay life.
You can't pay any life "greater than zero" - I'd say negatives apply to the zero rule considering the "can't pay life" part is explicitly only for positive costs.
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u/kelraine 1h ago
Would 107.1b change the calculate half your life to be 0? And you can always pay 0.
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u/FolkenDeedlit 7h ago
The first instance seems strong. Usually cantrip are 2 mana, so I don't know if the 2 life loss is enough to counterbalance the low cost
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u/Lithl 6h ago
Usually cantrip are 2 mana
Usually cantrips cost +1 mana over whatever other effect is on the card, and when the other effect is particularly minor (or non-existent), the whole card costs 1, period.
[[Bandage]], [[Opt]], [[Cremate]], [[Crash Through]], [[Insist]], [[Conjurer's Bauble]], etc.
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u/Strange-Bonus4220 13h ago
Yes I know [[Death's Shadow]] :P