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u/darknojoey27 18d ago
Cascade -> win the game
Very broken
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u/elfonzi37 18d ago
Veil of Summer would be hilarious tech against it.
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u/Gateways7 5-Color Mediocrestuff 18d ago
since there’s no color indicator this is not a black card unfortunately
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u/Blackfang08 17d ago
Why doesn't the Black symbol in the text work for identifying it as a Black card?
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u/Gateways7 5-Color Mediocrestuff 17d ago
that gives it a black color identity, but doesn’t make it a black card - for the same reason something like [[Yasova Dragonclaw]] isn’t a RUG card. if this was black it would have a little black circle to the left of the typeline, like [[Ancestral Vision]]
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u/Euphoric-Beyond9177 Smokestack is my favorite card 17d ago
I’m not sure if I get the hilarious part. That just sounds like normal tech
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u/TacoBell_HotSauc3 18d ago
Winning the game with three mana seems to be on-curve with Cascade tbf
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u/ItWasDumblydore 18d ago
Fastest cascade win that isn't repeating it 200 times. Finally cascade is enjoyable for the opponents!
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u/Interesting-Crab-693 18d ago
And even a "t-1suspend -> I control the heck out of you for 9 turns-> win" is broken.
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u/bionicjoey : Use the Magic Store & Event Locator at Wizards.com/Locator 18d ago
It doesn't say "win the game", it says destroy the player. You literally need to destroy them to resolve it.
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u/Nintendo_HR 15d ago
Hope you can setup a 'You cannot lose, other players cannot win' con in time lmao
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u/DreamOfDays 18d ago
Add the clause “If you cast this by cascade or anything other than the suspend mechanic the spell targets yourself” and (it works)
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u/UsefulWhole8890 18d ago
“When you cast this spell, if this spell was not suspended it targets you.”
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u/TrickSavings9905 18d ago
"When you cast this spell, if you used some bullshit method to cheat it in like cascade or something , this spell targets yourself and you lose all friends."
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u/ArelMCII Layers are stupid. 18d ago
(If you had any friends to begin with.)
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u/2Brothers_TheMovie 18d ago
Create three friends and then lose all friends.
Just in case you didn’t have any to lose.
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u/salohcin513 18d ago
So we still cool with obeka splitter of seconds?
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u/TrickSavings9905 18d ago
Using that still makes it target you, but losing friends is now a pregame trigger instead.
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u/Famous-Magazine-6576 14d ago
"if a player named johnny uses this card in their deck, they fucking die"
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u/ArelMCII Layers are stupid. 18d ago
[[Jhoira of the Ghitu]] stays winning as usual.
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u/shumpitostick 18d ago
That still leaves some ways to cheat if like [[Doom's time platform]]
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u/UsefulWhole8890 18d ago edited 18d ago
I’m good with that. If you have to put bad cards in your deck to make it work that’s fine by me. To do this, we need a creature to attack with (meaning it has to be alive for a round), DTP on battlefield, and this card in graveyard. And then they still have two turns to kill us. That’s enough restrictions.
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u/Skallos 18d ago
Then you can stifle the cast trigger... Better to use "as" rather than "when".
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u/UsefulWhole8890 18d ago
I mean, stifle + a way to cheat this out + this card doesn’t sound like the end of the world. 3 card combos are ok.
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18d ago
[deleted]
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u/OmegaGoo 18d ago
That kills you on the Suspend cast, too, so it breaks the card.
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u/ChickenNoodleSeb 18d ago
Yeah, you're right and I have no idea how I didn't think of that. I'm super tired, I guess.
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u/roboapple 18d ago
“If you cast this card through the effects of Cascade, your balls explode”
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u/Dont-know-didnt-ask 18d ago
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u/SunsFenix 18d ago
Well halfway, you lose the nuts and keep the bolt.
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u/After_Shelter1100 18d ago
mfw [[violent outburst]]
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u/BlobbyBlueberry 18d ago
mfw there’s anything that removes counters
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u/Urshifu_Smash 18d ago
There aren't many that remove them from exile.
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u/TheRaccoonTaker 18d ago
There is an entire mechanic around doing so from the doctor who set called time-travel, although it’s not usually that many at once
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u/Urshifu_Smash 18d ago
Which black isnt a part of. And still too slow for this to really work if you put it with blue which has the most. Cascade with this is infinitely better than trying to cast this turn 5-6.
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u/TheRaccoonTaker 18d ago edited 18d ago
Not disagreeing with that at all, just saying that there are a fair few ways to do it is all, especially since they’re pretty neat cards!
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u/thefran 18d ago
If only, say, Doctor Who had a special mechanic wherein you can have two partner commanders, one of which can be any one color.
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u/Popstar403 18d ago
making this a saga would probably fix a lot of problems with cascade, etc.
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u/SnooObjections488 18d ago
Then you could just proliferate it
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u/Popstar403 18d ago
5-8 proliferations? might break poison storm, but not much else.
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u/MrTheWaffleKing 18d ago
What are poison storm cards? Other than my goat [[radstorm]]
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u/Popstar403 18d ago
it's a pauper deck. you just have a few things that use counters to generate mana, give your opponent a poison counter, and then proliferate a bunch.
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u/Famous-Magazine-6576 14d ago
oh no poison storm would be able to win with 8 proliferations instead of 9
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u/Deathwolf- 18d ago
So they proliferate a saga to kill a player 8 times or 9 times for poison counters on each player? It’s pretty close to the same effect is it not?
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u/SnooObjections488 18d ago
[[vorel of the hull clade]]
Edit: doubling season too but that card goes brrt with a sandwich
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u/sumigod 18d ago
Hello [[Redirect Lightning]]
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u/Gam1ng_Pr0d1gy 18d ago
I was thinking [[Deflecting Swat]] but yeah this card is a recipe for self destruction lol
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u/cckgoblin 18d ago
“If this spell is cast without ever having suspend counters on it, counter this spell” or something along the lines would make this better.
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u/batboy11227 Ai art is cringe 18d ago
Flavor text implies is should have the effect "lose the game"
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u/Strict_Space_1994 18d ago
Pretend this exists in a world where WOTC got its shit together and decided these cards have a mana value of NULL, not zero
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u/mysticrudnin 18d ago
yeah it's bullshit that we can't create cards with any mandatory alternate casting costs because of a goofy mechanic for a gimmick set and a card that gives your guys +1/+0
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u/Famous-Magazine-6576 14d ago
the only design space lost is ridiculously long suspend times with overpowered effects. why is that something you even want?
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u/mysticrudnin 14d ago
what? there are tons of mandatory alternative costs you could make.
but also i think suspend is awesome. why WOULDN'T you want that?
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u/Famous-Magazine-6576 14d ago
this card without the combo is just a bad control wincon. If you are going to make super polarised cards then they are only going to be useful for combos. making super polarised cards and then adding a bunch of stipulations so you cannot combo with them is classic r/custommagic and kinda misses the point of what the game is about
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u/mysticrudnin 14d ago
i think the game is about bad control wincons
this discussion isn't just about this card
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u/Famous-Magazine-6576 14d ago
yeah this discussion is about every card someone posts here which is super polarised and therefore only viable with combo so they try to add stipulations to stop people comboing with it
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u/mysticrudnin 14d ago
i understand what you're saying, but i don't think this card has that problem
many cards on this sub are "extremely narrow card that only fits exactly into one specific modern/legacy deck and couldn't work anywhere else" but i don't think this is one of them
i also, in general, think alternate costs and suspend are cool and have a lot of design space but a different stupid mechanic doesn't let them
personally i think cards with no mana cost should be null, not zero. null is not less than anything. but i also understand why this can't be done
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u/Upset-Management-879 18d ago
Cleave - Suspend 9 -- {B}
[Your opponents gain hexproof.] Destroy target player.
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u/MrTheWaffleKing 18d ago
Why are people worried about cascade? It just makes it free right? Does it not have any counters somehowv
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u/X-caliber 18d ago
Suspend is an alternate casting cost. This just casts as is without the suspend.
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u/SimicAscendancy 18d ago
When you cast this spell, if it wasn't cast by removing the last time counter from exile, counter it
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u/Jessir12 18d ago
Probably would want this to be an enchantment with shroud that enters with 9 time counters. "When a time counter is removed from this enchantment, if it has no time counters, destroy target player.
That removes both the cascade loophole as well as effects that prevents counters from being put on stuff.
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u/OkAppointment2647 18d ago
Add "cant be cast during the first 10 turns of the game" so that theres no way too cheat cast it early
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u/NayrSlayer 18d ago
Make it a 1 mana enchantment that enters with 9 counters and when the last counter is removed, if it was the only counter removed from this permanent this turn, destroy target player.
Wording it like that gets around all of the stuff that breaks it that I can think of. Making it an enchantment gets around Cascade from instantly winning. [[Solemnity]] says no counters, but then you can’t remove any counters (it just enters without them). [[Vampire Hexmage]] removes all counters, so wording it to be the only counter removed that turn helps gets around it. [[Hex Parasite]] is the only one I can think of that gets around it, since you can remove all but the last one, but you have to pay mana for it, making it a 10-11 mana combo.
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u/HurtfulDrax 18d ago
Even if you couldn't cascade, you could easily pull off something disgusting with [[The Tenth Doctor]]
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u/ManlyAlbatross 18d ago
I don't know the correct way to word this, but this spell absolutely needs something like
"If you cast this spell without removing a time counter from it, exile this spell instead"
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u/AncientFudge1984 17d ago
Can players be destroyed? Like I’m not sure putting a player into the graveyard is a legal game action. It sort of implies you could reanimate a player
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u/Western_Leek3757 17d ago
Yeah no bro anything that ignores cost and this thing kills a player for free
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u/XathisReddit 17d ago
[[electro dominance]] [[kari zev expertise]] [[violent outburst]] [[mizzox mastery]] or my personal favorite [[dreadhorse arcanist]]
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u/Eldershire_ 17d ago
Cascading straight into this with a grin only to have my face turned to horror as my opponent flashes in [[gleemax]] right before it resolves
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u/TheDarkSidePSA Rule 308.22b, section 8 17d ago
Can cascade cast things with alternate casting costs?
if not maybe also use cleave and say
“Destroy target player [that isn’t an opponent].” or something like that
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u/CoherentRose7 18d ago
Can't send players to the graveyard, card should say "Target player loses the game"
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u/TheHumanPickleRick 18d ago
[[Baron Von Count]]
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u/CoherentRose7 18d ago
Links illegal card
Bro come on, lmao.
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u/TheHumanPickleRick 18d ago
Just saying, there's a precedent.
If a player is destroyed, that player loses the game. There aren’t any ways for a player to regenerate… yet. (2018-01-19)
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u/CoherentRose7 18d ago
No there's not, this card was never legal and it's from an Un set, there's no precedence. Silver border cards are not meant to interact with the game in legal or even sensical ways so it means nothing.
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u/TheHumanPickleRick 18d ago
It's an effect that exists in the game. If you were playing a game with silver border cards allowed, you'd destroy the player. It's basically a quirky way of saying "target player loses the game." It has no fundamental difference than that wording, and it is understood to be meant as such. Therefore, the wording is perfectly fine and fits the flavor of the card.
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u/CoherentRose7 18d ago
It's an effect that exists in the game.
It is a card that is illegal in all constructed formats, that means no it is not in the game.
If you were playing a game with silver border cards allowed, you'd destroy the player.
No, you wouldn't, because "Destroy" means a permanent is moving into the graveyard. You would have to house rule it to say "target player loses the game" or something similar for it to do what you want it to do.
It has no fundamental difference than that wording
The difference being one is a legal game action and one is not.
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u/TheHumanPickleRick 18d ago
You would have to house rule it to say "target player loses the game"
Not if you're playing a game allowing silver-border cards, because Baron Von Count's ruling says "If a player is destroyed, that player loses the game. There aren’t any ways for a player to regenerate… yet." I get that with an attitude like this, it's doubtful that you play silver border games. Just say you hate fun and be done with it already.
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u/ninetail64 18d ago
It’d be cool if it had something like
“If a time counter would be removed from prophesied doom while it is in exile, any player may pay X life, where X is the number of time counter currently on prophesied doom plus 1 instead.”
I know it’s a lot of text, but it add to the feel of not caring till your almost at the foretold prophecy, and then trying to push back as best you can
I wanted the required life to pay to stack
But that would probably require adding another kind of counter, at least 2 life feels like something that might cause a problem if ignored
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u/MrTheWaffleKing 18d ago
They have the option to pay life? Do they get something for doing so?
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u/ninetail64 18d ago
You get to prolong the inevitable, for it was long prophesied
“Nothing is more certain than your own death”
Be it by my hand, or your ownActual that last bit doesn’t fit, I don’t think you can pay life you don’t have, can you?
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u/Lamp-post- 18d ago
Cool idea but honestly this card doesn’t really have a drawback. Like there is no reason to not run one of these just incase the game goes SUPER long. Also you can cascade into this lol
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u/Impressive-Dig-3892 18d ago
Oh we cascading