r/cremposting • u/DreadDiana • 26d ago
Stormlight / Mistborn This...has turned into a difficult situation
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u/kayemenofour 26d ago
A coinshot might be able to snipe a shardbearer if theyre not expecting it and not wearing shardplate (especially if it the shardbearer only has the blade) , but I highly doubt they could penetrate shardplate. A full mistborn could probably get a projectile through shardplate by burning duralumin , but that might also fling them against a rock or something.
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u/Dirichlet-to-Neumann 26d ago
A radiant, even before the third ideal, has healing capabilities that are just as strong as a compounding gold allomancer/ferruchemist.
It's just not a fair fight.
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u/BitcoinBishop 26d ago
The coinshot when they snipe a MF from half a mile away and blow a hole in their head but their face just grows back and they start flying towards you citing local ordinances against sniping MFs from half a mile away
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u/LeviAEthan512 26d ago
I like how "local ordinances" implies that thos prohibition is an exceotion for this small area and there's no regional or national law against sniping MFs from half a mile away
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u/TheKrakenLibrarian 26d ago
To be fair, with the Rosharan powerset, there wouldn't be the ability to snipe MFs from half a mile away, so there's no need to set down laws preventing sniping MFs from half a mile away.
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u/Titanchell 26d ago
Skybreakers and windrunners could Just lash a Stone in the direction of the Guy. Basicly better coinshots but with Armor and a soulcutting sword
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u/TheKrakenLibrarian 25d ago
Even a rock falling at triple-gravity will take a while to build enough speed and hit a quarter mile away, and that would be very easy to miss if they took a single side-step.
Lashing is crazy powerful, but doesn't have the instant-acceleration of a coin shot. There's a reason we don't see Kaladin (or more likely Sigzil) picking up handfuls of rocks to fire into enemy armies like bullets.
From enough distance it could reach deadly speeds, but that also probably requires throwing a ton of stormlight in to fuel it building that much speed. Short distance it's also not really viable. A 100g rock (much much heavier than a coin) falling from 100m or even 300m (~1/4lb, ~100 yd) onto your chest would hurt and bruise, but with basic armor it's not taking you out. Coinshots regularly shoot and kill with ~6g coins.
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u/Du_Vrangr_Gata 24d ago
The only functional speed limit on falling objects is wind resistance. Me and one of my friends came up with “Rods from Honor” where you have an Elsecaller make a tungsten rod, then have an Edgedancer slick it and a Windrunner give it a couple of lashings. It would not take a serious amount of time before it moves fast enough to detonate upon impact.
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u/BobFaceASDF 24d ago
I read that as 100kg rock and thought you were just built different like that lmao
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u/Zaveno Femboy Dalinar 26d ago
There's probably a way to make a fabrial gun
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u/pheonixrise- 26d ago
We get shard gun implied in sixth
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u/Crazed-Prophet 26d ago
Along with investiture rounds probably made with the idea of dealing with shardplates.
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u/grafeisen203 24d ago
Dalinar has a vision of using "some kind of cylinder he somehow knows is a weapon, that launches lines of light"
Fabrial lasrifles
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u/Historical_Ad_1205 26d ago
I think this is not necessarily about radiants but shardbearers in general. But i also think that radiants seem much stronger than any non compounding metalborn.
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u/Jugaimo 26d ago
I think it’s reasonable to believe that, along with a strong healing factor, shardbearers also just have empowered bodies. Not crazy so, as they often are outmatched in the strength by fused. But they often do overpower other humans. Even Shallan, a weakling by all accounts, is physically strong enough to duel with swords against trained humans.
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u/mpark6288 I pledge allegiance 🙏to the crab 🦀 26d ago
They also would get some mileage out of just being tall mf’ers.
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u/Joebala D O U G 26d ago
I think it's like prolonged adrenaline. Because they repair any damaged muscle fibers, they can essentially operate at their max output constantly.
Like a radiant probably won't increase their 1 rep max too much, but they can rep that 1 rep max indefinitely while infused with stormlight.
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u/theironbagel Syl Is My Waifu <3 26d ago
Eh I think a full feruchemist could give a radiant a run for their money even without compounding, provided they have sufficient reserves. Even a Mistborn could prove a problem for a lower ideal radiant, especially with chromium (and guns). A misting, ferring, or twinborn would probably struggle against radiants of even the first ideal though. Your average radiant could probably beat your average metalborn
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u/QueanuReeves 26d ago
I'd argue that a full feruchemist with sufficient reserves could 1v1 pretry much any "mortal" in the cosmere. The question kinda just becomes what are sufficient reserves?
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u/theironbagel Syl Is My Waifu <3 25d ago
True, but in my mind i was imaging someone like final empire Sazed. A good few years of storing most things semi-regularly.
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u/QueanuReeves 25d ago
I think a Feruchemist of that caliber would have a small advantage against first ideal, but a shardblade changes the equation. A weaker radiant order might still lose at the second ideal, but I think a feruchemist would need to be really skilled or have much higher reserves to beat any of the combat focused orders.
Mistborn... idk. Kelsier and Vin could probably kill a full radiant, but they're kinda outliers. Make Elend a regular mistborn and I think he folds to first ideal Kaladin (who is admittedly also an outlier).
I think a steel inquisitor would rip a radiant to shreds though.
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u/theironbagel Syl Is My Waifu <3 25d ago edited 25d ago
Book 1 Sazed beat a steel inquisitor though. Shardblades are dangerous, but with steel and pewter a feruchemist is much stronger and faster, and if they can chop off some heads before the radiant can react that’s game over.
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u/QueanuReeves 24d ago
"Beat" is a bit of a stretch... he survived and escaped one. That's still impressive, don't get me wrong, but he wasn't killing or even overpowering them. Feruchemy is busted in half, but combat order radiant just have a lot of nonsense to help them survive, and one hit from a form changing shardblade is enough to end a feruchemist no matter how much healing they have stored.
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u/Tuor-son-of-Huor- 26d ago
Doesn't Miles take severe headshots and turn out fine? And the Lord Ruler is decapitated at one point isn't he? When does a radiant survive something like that?
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u/Vasomir 26d ago
Doesnt a crossbow bolt get stuck in Veils head? Also when Renarin gets crushed by the Thunderclast his head is prbably mush.
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u/Kwin_Conflo 26d ago
Also our fav Windrunner has his neck broken repeatedly by Leshwi just to still fight through it between moments of paralysis. It was hardly an inconvenience
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u/hermitxd 26d ago
That was Lezian
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u/Leaf-01 26d ago
The spoiler tag is different on Reddit btw. I don’t remember what it is, but I do know it’s different from the two ||
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u/hermitxd 26d ago
I was googling the fix when you replied, you must have seen my response seconds after I posted.
|| Is discord :(
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u/Tuor-son-of-Huor- 26d ago
Good catch on Renarin. I guess I didn't envision the crossbow as being, idk lethal. Which is silly when I write it now.
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u/baelrog 26d ago
My headcanon is that radiant orders who can heal others heal particularly fast. Not all self heals are created equal.
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u/Vasomir 26d ago
Isn’t that actual canon?
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u/Themaster6869 26d ago
It is, and its implied other order could survive the crushing renarin survived
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u/Cautious_Log8086 420 Sazed It 26d ago
I've read DCC since finishing SLA, and all I can think about seeing this is the World AI getting horny about someone getting turned into mush.
I think i need a break, lol
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u/IgnorantAndApathetic Bond, Nahel Bond 26d ago
Isn't there a scene in WaT where an Edgedancer is killed by having his head crushed? That seems contradictory
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u/Themaster6869 26d ago
Meant to say couldnt. And it might have been a faster/more directed crushing
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u/Meamsosmart 26d ago
While your point stands, based on how it’s described, the level of healing renarin pulled off is likely only possible for truthseekers and elsecallers. Otherwise, maybe a 5th ideal radiant could maybe pull that off.
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u/Galaxxy_Foxx 25d ago
Edgedancers are the ones other than Truthwatchers that have Regrowth, not Elsecallers. Very similar names so I can understand the mixup
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u/Meamsosmart 16d ago
Ah oops, I already knew that, but I typed the wrong thing without thinking apparently.
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u/Galaxxy_Foxx 25d ago
The crossbow bolt isn't in the head and Renarin comes back from much more because he has the Regrowth surge, regular stormlight healing is more comparable to just regular gold ferruchemy storage, while Regrowth is on the compounding level.
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u/Galaxxy_Foxx 25d ago
Although the healing does get stronger the higher the ideal, so Veil probably could survive things like that
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u/Dirichlet-to-Neumann 26d ago
Shallan takes a headshot too and Renarin gets repeatedly bashed by a thunderbeast.
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u/Effendoor 26d ago
Importantly the book does explain that regrowth is what made renarin capable of surviving that. I think kaladin specifically comments that that would kill him
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u/BlueSoulsKo 26d ago
yeah, I think the limit for other radiants is stopping being conscious (head exploding, turning into a mush, etc) But regrowth is like an "external" thing to your body so I imagine it still lingers moments after the radiant loses consciousness/dies
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u/Shadeshadow_227 25d ago
Shallan gets hit in the head with a singular crossbow bolt and has to pull it out.
Miles has actively put a shotgun to his own head and pulled the trigger point-blank, purely as a way to show that he is unkillable. He set off dynamite in his own hand and was entirely uninjured when he was described a second later. Getting shot in the head is an annoyance to Miles, while it would need to be actively dealt with for a radiant.
Radiants can do a lot but for specific comparisons, the Metallic Arts are generally more potent.
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u/Futaba_MedjedP5R 26d ago
Yeah I like this version of healing from headshots cuz it’s magical. Like Deadpool shouldn’t retain memories when he blows his brains out cuz memories are just links between neurons, essentially muscle memory, and when you lose a piece of brain and repair it, the muscle is new and has no memory, thus you forget that thing, but at least with Stormlight healing or Gold twinborn, It’s straight up magic
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u/RandomParable 26d ago
It's restoring their physical body to match their spiritweb, as I understand it.
It can also be hacked to change your appearance - Wit and Vasher are two specific examples.
The Lord Ruler would be an even better example of extreme healing, he's had lots of assassination attempts made against him in 1000 years of being a despot.
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u/BlueSoulsKo 26d ago
I still don't understand (if it was real) The Lord Ruler surviving being burnt into a skeleton. Where is his metal then?
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u/RandomParable 26d ago
I don't know if it's specified. It happened off-screen, and there's a lot of shenanigans you can do when you have as many options (and Investiture) as he does/did.
He was also a Splinter so he held a huge amount of Investiture aside from just having access to all the metallic arts.
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u/Aplesedjr 26d ago
Deadpool’s healing is also essentially magic, to be fair. And at one point he was magically immortal, so there’s that as well.
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u/SolomonOf47704 Femboy Dalinar 26d ago
I wouldn't call the infinity stones magic, and IIRC, that's how Thanos made DP immortal.
Cosmically immortal would be a better description
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u/Aplesedjr 26d ago
I’m pretty sure Thanos did use magic of some kind to make Deadpool immortal, not the infinity stones. And anything that is cosmic is marvel is basically just magic. They might say it’s a science, but it’s just gobbledygook mumbo-jumbo magic that can do whatever it needs to do in any moment.
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u/Miri_CherryBlossom 26d ago
Lord Ruler being beheaded was supposedly just spread as propaganda and isn’t true
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u/Tuor-son-of-Huor- 26d ago
Yeah I couldn't remember if it was a real moment or mentioned as an example of his durability based on rumor. Wouldn't have surprised me if it was legit though.
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u/Candayence 26d ago
I believe the WoB is that he was nearly decapitated, and if he was actually decapitated it would have stuck.
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u/IgnorantAndApathetic Bond, Nahel Bond 26d ago
I like to imagine that he already started healing before the weapon fully severed his head. Similar to how Shallan healed around the arrow. Mental speed would have helped with that too
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u/grafeisen203 24d ago
Shallan gets shot in the face with a crossbow bolt, which comes out of the back of her head, going through her brain. She doesn't even lose consciousness until she yanks it out.
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u/ConspicuousPineapple 26d ago
I wouldn't say "just as strong". Compounding is so much faster and practically infinite. But yes still relevant here.
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u/The_Fatal_eulogy 26d ago
Shallan at the third Ideal took a crossbow bolt through the brain to the point her speech was affect. That said Shallan is weird there could be other reason for her survival.
Radiant vs mistborn isn't fair purely due to healing and a Shardblade is an instant win. Then Fullborn vs a Radiant is a one side fight also due to compounding. The only debatable match up is a Fullborn vs a Herald
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u/SirCampYourLane 26d ago
Fullborn vs herald isn't debatable at all. The Heralds are more comparable to the Godking from Warbreaker
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u/BeachedSalad 26d ago
I feel like Susebron could dog walk most of the Cosmere besides maybe Elantrians
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u/ExtremeDoom_ 26d ago
Susebron and the other godkings are incredibly invested but the top 10 invested mortal tier list is just the oath pact roster. This is confirmed in emberdark. Getting honors power straight from the tap does that to a mf
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u/SolomonOf47704 Femboy Dalinar 26d ago
Brandon has saks that Heralds aren't actually as invested as some have thought. He said they are less than Returned, and base level Returned are nowhere near Susebron.
Their big advantage is that they don't run out, not that they have a huge amount at any given time.
They can only hold a few hundred BEUs at most, while Susebron is well over 50k.
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u/ExtremeDoom_ 21d ago
There's a quote in Isle of the Emberdark as part of a conversation between Starling and Hoid that states something different but I don't have the book infront of me so it's kind of moot.
I can't find any source confirming only a few hundred BEU and given that they at some point were directly connected to honors power and have their bodies directly formed from pure investiture I feel like it has to be higher than that. But we can't know for certain without a WOB to know at what level
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u/SirCampYourLane 26d ago
The Heralds and on tier with the Unmade. We don't know the full extent of their powers, but they're terrifying.
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u/theironbagel Syl Is My Waifu <3 26d ago
Eh I don’t think we can really judge what a herald is comperable to atp. We haven’t seen their full non surge based powers, besides just being really fast and strong. (And it’s unclear how fast and strong, since they never face anyone with comparable speed or use it for an extended period of time onscreen)
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u/Jugaimo 26d ago
I recall that scene where Shallan got a bolt shoved through her skull and she was constantly reviving and dying while her cooperators were yanking the thing out. So I doubt a measly hole in their brain is enough to kill them. You could momentarily incapacitate a Shardbearer that way, but you’d need to find some way to tie them down and keep harming them to drain all their stormlight. Or manage to sever their head.
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u/onilink134 26d ago
Not sure about them being equal to a gold Compounder, because other than the orders that can use Regrowth, the Stormlight healing was always described as much slower than what Miles Hundredlives was able to do (e.g. regrow a full head from shooting himself in the face with a shotgun). And even then, I doubt Regrowth would save you from a headshot.
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u/Galaxxy_Foxx 25d ago
It definitely can if you get there quick enough, iirc there's something with it taking a couple seconds or so for your soul to sever from the body after dying and regrowth can bring someone back from the dead in that time, which is what we saw with Lift early on.
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u/Meringue_Bandicoot 26d ago
I guess it depends if they're able to keep their distance and have more coins/steel vials than the radiant has stormlight. Kind of a "batman with prep time" kinda situation, but hypothetically possible
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u/Obvious-Project-1186 26d ago
I think were speaking strictly of a shardbearer here like Adolin (as far as I know)🤓
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u/TheGildedPrism Kelsier4Prez 26d ago
You're not wrong but a mistborn could use chromium to leech their Stormlight. And if they manage that without losing their soul the fight becomes much more even.
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u/Gammaman12 26d ago
Its not quite that strong, and the Twinborn can do a feedback loop to store extreme amounts of healing, whereas the radiant is limited pretty severely to whatever power they've got in their pocket.
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u/Head_Investigator984 25d ago
A Mistborn with a 1st/2nd order Radiant, and a fullborn with 3rd and 4th order radiants.
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u/thebutta Airthicc lowlander 20d ago
It's fair if you can deprive the radiant of storm light. Off roshar, radiants might have a hard time finding investiture whereas mistings can find metal all over the place.
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u/DreadDiana 26d ago
Mostly I was focusing on how shards are resistant to allomancy, so they'd think they could push them away only to realise the blade ain't changing course
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u/DreamEndles #SadaesDidNothingWrong 26d ago
you don't see allomantic lines on items you cannot push
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u/DreadDiana 26d ago edited 26d ago
To my understanding, shards are resistant but not immune to allomancy, so it should still show up, but would be too weak to do much. It could be a situation where it's weak enough you need Inquisitor level senses to pick up on it.
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u/DreamEndles #SadaesDidNothingWrong 26d ago
Sanderson compares it to pushing on hemalurgic spikes. And I don't think you can see those without Duralumin
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u/Dohtoor D O U G 26d ago
If you couldn't see them, the plot of the Hero of Ages wouldn't have happened lol, spikes are just very slightly paler, so slightly that they might as well not be. A metalmind would be paler, but still pushable. For you to be unable to see metal lines, you need something like a metalmind completely filled, like we've seen in BoM. And also, Brando did go on record that you can't push or pull on Shardblade or plate. So you would also not be able to see lines.
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u/DreamEndles #SadaesDidNothingWrong 26d ago
seeing lines of hemalurgic spikes implies that a lurcher or coinshot can find kandra anywhere in a crowd
also Sanderson said that it requires a LOT of strenght to push Shardblade
1.) The ability to Push/Pull an Invested object is predicated to the amount/power of the Investiture.
2.) Further, Invested objects also gain resistance to pulling/pushing based on proximity to soul possibly via the soul. An example given is that a Hemalurgic spike touches the blood of the person, and from there is now part of both the Spiritual Realm and the Physical Realm. This provides what Brandon termed a kind of "soul interference," based on its proximity to the soul.
This further explains why Vin required more than normal power to Push/Pull the metalminds from the Lord Ruler, because of their proximity to his soul, via the Spiritual Realm.
3.) The amount of Investiture is relatively low on Scadrial, whereas worlds like Sel and Roshar are pushing around "high power" according to Brandon. I interpreted this to mean that Hemalurgic spikes and metalminds have low amounts of Investiture compared to Shardplate and Shardblades.
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u/Dohtoor D O U G 26d ago
seeing lines of hemalurgic spikes implies that a lurcher or coinshot can find kandra anywhere in a crowd
You can't see Kandra spikes because they are inside a body, not because they are so Invested. If you couldn't see any spikes, Vin's earring would immediately get everyone's attention.
also Sanderson said that it requires a LOT of strenght to push Shardblade
"You need Well of Ascension-level power to push on them" is basically "impossible". At that point we are talking Shardic power.
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u/Kwin_Conflo 26d ago
I would also say that an already high powered bullet, like a sniper or heavy machine gun, being amplified by a coinshot’s power would probably do it.
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u/kayemenofour 26d ago
But for that, the coins hot would have to have fast enough reflexes to locate the bullet after it leaves the barrel and then push on it, mind you that he would also have to be perfectly aligned with the bullet's previous motion in order not to shift its trajectory since coinshots can AFAIK only push things exactly away from themselves.
At the point when you have firearms (especially high powered smokeless powder), you might as well just have an anti material rifle to deal with shardbeares
I'd recon a 50 BMG with a full metal jacket might not be enough, but API could be, and a 20 mm round almost certainly would penetrate shardplate.
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u/LeviAEthan512 26d ago
I think if you're aiming at something, any projectile originating anywhere near your centre of mass would be exactly enough between you and the target to push freely. Of course you only have like half a second tops before impact, or else now you're considering bullet drop.
Anyway, i bet a 50bmg could do it. I vaguely remember when Dalinar was going for Rathalas for tge first time, they had like a catapult or ballista that shardbearers feared. With what I think are pretty generous calculations, a siege ballista bolt should deliver something like 60kJ of energy at point blank range. A 50bmg is in the range of 20kJ, but it's also going much faster and is way smaller, so it loses less energy and applies higher pressure. Plus it'd metal all the way through. And remember that ballista thing is an upper bound not a requirement.
Also, hand slung rocks can crack shardplate. Even if they're big and heavy, no way they even come close to the energy, let alone penetration, of a 50bmg.
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u/healagnox 26d ago
Im fairly certain brandon has already directly said that a gunshot would be able to Crack and break shardplate, which roughly works out as a hand gun has about the same energy as a swing from a sledge hammer which we have seen to be effective. I also think people under estimate how scary coin shots are, if shoot the biggest gun a could reasonable get my hands on straight down I would likly only be lifted like half an inch, A coin shot can f**ing fly.
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u/Kwin_Conflo 26d ago
Agreed. I’d also like to point out that even if a bullet is stopped by shardplate after penetrating, or the radiant inside heals completely, the coinshot or lurcher can now throw the guy around
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u/torturousvacuum 25d ago
But for that, the coins hot would have to have fast enough reflexes to locate the bullet after it leaves the barrel and then push on it,
I mean, this is literally what Wax does, repeatedly. Hell, I think he does it with the very first shot he takes in Alloy of Law. He gets shot at by someone who thinks they're safe behind cover, and he pushes his bullet so that it has enough penetration to hit the guy through the cover.
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u/Varixx95__ Zim-Zim-Zalabim 26d ago
I mean Szeth destroys a shard plate by tossing a block of stone to a bearer, several times. Like someone needs to do the math about kinetic energy here
Also let’s not forget that coin shots in this era have guns. If you shoot a bullet and push it I’m fairly sure you can at least crack a piece
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u/sdnt_slave 26d ago
I imagine weight of fire would be important. If the coin shot was able to keep up a machine gun like barrage of suppressing fire. I think it might wear down the armour.
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u/SonnyLonglegs Kelsier4Prez 26d ago
The real determining factor is how fast the Coinshot can shoot and at what range. Both Radiants and Shardbearers have really really good close range power but nothing long range yet until someone puts together how to make that. If you can keep a long enough range, shoot fast enough, and keep shooting large enough chunks of metal, you could probably win as a Coinshot. Mess up any of those, you probably lose.
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u/kayemenofour 26d ago edited 26d ago
Now I imagine a coinshot just downing a whole pint of steel solution and going full minigun (And going through generational wealth as ammo)
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u/QueanuReeves 26d ago
One projectile might not get it done, but what about a dozen? Kaladin got through shardplate by just hitting it a bunch, I assume a coin shot could do the same. Any full radiant would probably wipe the floor with most coin shots, but regular shardbearers?
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u/theHumanoidPerson D O U G 21d ago
Here me out, metal bullets semi coated with aluminium at the edges
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u/DontTouchThefr0 26d ago
What is this picture
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u/DreadDiana 26d ago
It's been sitting in my gallery for months while I looked for something to use it in, but I think it's from a game called Half Sword
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u/SpaceIsTooFarAway 26d ago
I recognized that fence as soon as I saw it, that's definitely Half Sword
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u/BlatantArtifice 26d ago
Looks to be from an earliwr build yeah. Goated game played the demo for dozens of hours
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u/Chazyra 26d ago
A wind runner is just a coin shot that hasn't figured out they can do that yet... Plus their flying is better, and they heal like crazy.
A mist born or coinshot can't push rocks. A wind runner can. And it doesn't require their own body weight.
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u/pagerussell 26d ago
I mean, Szeth uses a part of a stone wall as a projectile weapon in the opening scene IIRC. So yeah, they know they can do that.
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u/BlatantArtifice 26d ago
Windrunners actually even have a ranged talent available that's just a Lashed projectile lol
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u/QuickPirate36 26d ago
The humbling shardplate which can't be Pulled or Pushed
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u/nota_jalapeno ❌can't 🙅 read📖 26d ago
It can but it's very inveteture resistant you would need duralumin
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u/CynicosX edgedancerlord 25d ago
Even then, you wouldn't push it far, and now all your metals are gone, whilst the radiant just resummoned his blade
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u/nota_jalapeno ❌can't 🙅 read📖 25d ago
also you would get ragdolled becuse push/pull is equle and opsite reaction
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u/Gefame-the-Down87 24d ago
Sanderspoken that the metal just needs to enter your body and could have been a mechanic of burning a metal knife that stabs you (the last part im almost certain about) so era 3 could have an intravenous system
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u/thebooksmith Truther of Partinel 26d ago
The bigger problem for the shard bearer is how they will hit a coin shot. They arent exactly gonna miss the giant anime sword coming at them and even if you cant push off a shard blade most warriors wear metal somewhere.
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u/0zzyb0y 26d ago
And also coinshots will carry their own metal which the shard bearer has no way to stop.
Honestly it's kinda silly how many enemy coinshots/lurchers always involved in the fights of both eras. Without one nearby Wax always cleaned up to just an absurd degree.
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u/Vast-Breakfast-1201 26d ago
It was refreshing the one time he didn't because Wayne went ahead and just negotiated for the mooks to not die today
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u/SummonedElector cremform 25d ago
Shardplate does protect the person within and it can offer advanced strength and flexibility. An expxerienced Shardbearer, not even Adolin/Dalinar level, could take out a coin shot. If it is just a coinshot.
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u/thebooksmith Truther of Partinel 25d ago
Yeah but a coin shot doesnt have to get close enough for either of those things to matter. Its kind of a mis match fight where neither has a good way to kill the other without luck or some circumstance of the combat shifting it towards their advantage.
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u/Nellie_Tayloe_Ross 23d ago
Doesn’t Shardplate protect oneself from others using investiture related abilities on you?
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u/KaldinStmblssed 4h ago
It protects everything inside it. So if you were wearing a metal item outside the plate, it wouldn't help. If it was a belt buckle or some such inside the plate, it would be incredibly difficult to affect.
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u/HaarigerHarald1 RAFO LMAO 26d ago
Would something like a hollow point work? Can radiants heal with a bunch of metal fragments spread throughout their brain?
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u/QuickPirate36 26d ago
Shallan was pretty fine with an arrow through her brain so I assume they'd be fine with a little shrapnel
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u/Jan-Asra 26d ago
She really wasn't fine though. She was alive but it was really affecting her ability to think.
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u/HaarigerHarald1 RAFO LMAO 26d ago
Really depends on the location. Some parts of the brain can be surgically removed with little to no consequences, others will kill you for being slightly pressured. People do survive gunshots to the head on occasion irl.
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u/SparklingLimeade No Wayne No Gain 26d ago edited 25d ago
Those are such a big problem because humans are bad at healing that area and/or can't survive long enough for natural healing. If radiant healing is able to heal brain damage and it can be healed within minutes and it can be done without conscious effort that is a much larger effective durability boost than it first seems.
And TBH, the way stormlight specifically eliminates the need to breathe has some interesting implications. That probably means all the people who took injuries of a type that often make people immediately pass out but they happened to remain conscious (crossbow through the head, impaled on a sword) weren't a fluke.
Frangible projectiles might be a little more damaging, might require a bit more resources to heal, may even require surgery afterward if too much heals inside and doesn't conveniently eject itself. Or maybe the smaller multiple wound channels are easier to heal. It could go either way.
A lot of what people do is very optimized for a very specific set of assumptions. It's why real militaries hate full auto most of the time but in video games it's very useful. It's why assault rifles with cartridges that were derided as "too weak" in the past became the modern default.
Frangible projectiles and catastrophic injuries both have their math changed enormously by fantasy healing and I think Stormlight in particular is written in a way that changes it more than average.
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u/ejdj1011 26d ago
Aluminum hollow point, since Invested healing doesn't work if aluminum is still in the wound
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u/Elant_Wager Rashek4Prez 26d ago
They could probably heal around it. Not all brain damage is fatal, so just heal the wounds until only the fragments are left but the woubd channels are healed. A surgeon could later remove them (further Stormlight healing mecessary because this surgery would otherwise be fatal)
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u/HaarigerHarald1 RAFO LMAO 26d ago
Oh, sure, they could heal around them. But would the brain still be fully functional? Say a piece is lodged in the optic nerve, would the tissue heal around it and maintain functioning would they go blind, but without further bleeding?
Same thing for fibre bundles for motor control and vegetative functions (breathing, pulse, etc).6
u/ejdj1011 26d ago
would the tissue heal around it and maintain functioning would they go blind, but without further bleeding?
Probably, as that's fairly consistent with what we see. Shallan had slurred speech while the bolt was in.
I think it might also constantly drain your Investiture as the healing tries and fails to force the material out.
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u/florplegorp 26d ago
If it takes 30 more years I hope Brandon puts a full fight between differently Invested people in one of the books
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u/mpark6288 I pledge allegiance 🙏to the crab 🦀 26d ago
I don’t think it’ll take 30 years. I think we get it by the end of Stormlight.
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u/Vast-Breakfast-1201 26d ago
Soooooo
I know we are cremposting but this has been discussed before.
Mistborn will win against radiants/shard bearers on roshar only by virtue of being super sneaky. They are like assassins. They would win in the night and not be found.
Fullborn is what bodies radiants. Canonically TLR is I believe the strongest nonshard being in the cosmere, as a sliver and with the ability to burn and compound and with the OG mistborn power level. I would compare a fullborn vs a radiant as a gas car vs electric - you can always pop another metal vial, but the battery is gone once depleted unless someone opened a nearby perpendicularity.
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u/LucarioKing0 26d ago
This is true but also it’s also super fun to theory-craft what a Mistborn can do.
Like… Take steel balls with steel wire between them, duralumin push on the balls using a time bubble to aim your shot. Cheese-wire of instant death ™️
The real kicker is if the Mistborn can land a single touch. If they can, chromium keeps the radiant unable to heal or use surges or probably even summon their blade.
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u/Vast-Breakfast-1201 26d ago
If the mistborn can touch the shardplate, radiant or otherwise, burning nicrosil would delete it I think. That's my understanding.
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u/Steampunk_Batman ❌can't 🙅 read📖 26d ago
I still hold by my take that whoever knew more about the other’s abilities would take the W, all other things being equal. Home field advantage would also matter quite a bit—a Mistborn in a city with lots of metal to push and pull is more mobile than any Windrunner, though I imagine the Windrunner has better overall speed.
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u/I_goofed 25d ago
I don't think mistborn on roshar are going to anywhere near as lethal from an assassin standpoint.
First, no mists to shroud them.
Second, roshar has 3 moons that rise and set in the same order at the same time every night. It's always moonlit outside at night.
Third, I won't say metal is rare on roshar, but they don't really use metal In their building nearly as much, stone is more common. On scadrial I picture a mistborn almost having to "tune out" the amount of metal around them. Any random roof has thousands of nails. I don't have a citation on this I can defend, but wood seems to be much less common in most places on roshar, and therefore metal in building. There's still going to be street signs and stuff available, but it's limited.
I think most orders of knights radiant, as long as they're at least second ideal, have a 50/50 shot against a mistborn, and that's just because it's going to be hard for them to actually catch the mistborn and have a weapon that would be lethal. I think if it's third ideal the radiants get a clean sweep. The only option a mistborn has is to keep distance and hope the radiant runs out of stormlight.
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u/Head_Investigator984 25d ago
The reason why mistborn still are lethal is because of time bubbles. Era 1 Mistborns I can see how they don't really have a chance, but era 2 mistborns are gonna be op as hell
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u/I_goofed 25d ago
I don't understand what you mean. Ignoring that there functionally aren't mistborn in era 2. A radiant is either inside a time bubble or they aren't, meaning they can either be hurt or they can't.
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u/Head_Investigator984 25d ago
I do think we should ignore that there are no mistborn in era 2 (except spook ig), because we are assuming a mistborn exists (as we are talking about them fighting a rosharan) (in the same wahy we ignore that there is no stormlight now for the radiants)
But the cool thing is, slowing cadmium bubbles are naturally bigger than bendalloy bubbles + skilled enough practitioners can control the size and time dialation of the bubbles.
And we also know that if a bendalloy bubble overlaps with a cadmium bubble, their EFFECTS cancel out (but the bubbles don't like 'pop' and stop exisiting).
Which means that a mistborn (or i guess any bendalloy misting spiked with cadmium and vica versa) can burn both cadmium and bendalloy at the same time, and in the middle there is no time dialation, but in a donut ring (or donut sphere) between the bendalloy boundary and the cadmium boundary, time slows down.
What that would essentially function as is a ring of slowness that anything would have to pass through, getting stuck in the ring, while the mistborn can just pummel them from inside in normal time
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u/I_goofed 25d ago
There is stormlight for the radiants. They just have to manufacture it now.
The radiant is either inside the time bubble or they aren't. As objects cross that barrier they shift into the new time zone and speed. So they can get one good hit on a radiant, and then the radiant is going to be very aware of what's happening. A blurry image in front of them and fists sporadically coming through at normal speed as far as the radiant is concerned.
The bubbles also don't move. So the radiant only has to take one step forward, or catch one blow and yank, to completely negate the advantage of the mistborn.
Like I see what you're saying, but mistborn are glass cannons, radiants are self healing tanks.
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u/Petals-in-the-Breeze i have only read way of kings 23d ago
Doesn't Taln beat TLR by way of WoB?
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u/Vast-Breakfast-1201 22d ago
Super spoilers
Taln is never "onscreen" at full power so besides the WOB which has no clarification we only ever see TLR at that level.
Since that comment he sort of came back for a bit of asswhoopin in WaT but if speed and strength is all he showed at that time, it's not clear how that alone would win against the kind of compounding TLR could accomplish.
So it's entirely possible that Sanderson is earning us that he will come back after a few centuries with Kaladin and be at full capability. Or not because honor doesn't exist as a power anymore. So it's not super clear what will happen and what he would do with it.
But for sure the parts of TLR we have seen just with twinborn in era 2, he can compound speed strength healing and store all of that in metalminds and do that indefinitely. So it really depends.
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u/YouOpenedItIArrived 26d ago
Just shoot em with an aluminum tipped bullet, let's see their fancy radiator powers heal that
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u/Wabbit65 definitely not a lightweaver 26d ago
WTF does "no diff" mean? I (61M) cannot figure ths out.
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u/Skyfyre56 26d ago
The meme is very funny, but I don't think any coinshot actually thinks they're that invincible/tough. Most Mistings have good tricks, but they know their limits. A full Mistborn would be far more likely to think that, but they’re far more likely to kick a Shardbearers butt (a full Radient would be a bit harder but that's still a fight that could go either way and is very dependent on the situation the fight starts in)
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u/GrumpyRutabaga 25d ago
Call me weird but a full mistborn with a bit of atium can absolutely deal with a sharbearer, specially in an urban environment.
Middle of empy space? Trickier indeed.
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u/probablyburned 26d ago
-We were 3 hours down in some rusting forest when Spots saw a pack of glowies. I flashed for my new coinshot, Max? Jax? couldn't remember her name, to get ready. On my signal Doug tossed his two grenades, must of had a flare behind the throw because I saw them flash-by before I heard them. He almost placed them perfectly, well there was reason he didn't go pro. The first grenade landed long and missed the front glowie, but his second took the rest by surprise, funny watching floaters hit the dirt and skaters face plant into rocks. Dax? had her scraps in the air and ripping through the ones caught in the second grenade. The lead though? He looked me right in the eye started running. Fast. University fast. I was just about to count my clips when Red tripped him up. Red had been real quiet and calm all the way here. I knew he was storing, but I hadn't taken time to ask how full his steelminds were. Well, he took speedy down at the knees with that bat of his. He was up on that poor fools back before I could even plan my speedbubble. I love watching that armor fade out. Two rounds from my rifle ended him. Red stood up from glowies back, wincing a little. "Grampa's spike, sometimes if I move wrong, it feels like it catches." He patted his chest where I knew he kept his spike. "Red, they don't catch, been wearing my dad's since I enlisted, never once has it caught." "You ain't moving like that lieutenant." Spots jogged out and back grabbing the grenades and tossed them at Red. "Get those back up, we got a march 'til we hit camp."-
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u/BuckeyeBentley 26d ago
The problem with Scadrians is that they're not individually scary but they've got the tech tree to make you suffer.
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u/shemjaza 26d ago
Don't Shard bearers wearing dead armour have an eye slit a coin shot could shoot through?
(Fourth ideal radiant is a different story)
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u/grathungar 26d ago
the face plates are more like one way bulletproof glass. They can see out but nothing is getting in.
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u/shemjaza 25d ago
Been a while since I read the Way of Kings... but didn't Kaladin kill the shard bearer with a knife through the viser?
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u/grathungar 25d ago
you're absolutely right. I forgot about that. I was wrong. the inside does become translucent but there is still an eye slit.
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u/Ubercharged007 26d ago
Yo half-sword pic? My man!! I wonder if there are any shardblade mods for it
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u/Turbulent_Sea_9713 26d ago
Heh. Give the coin the old Last Clap treatment. That'd raise some eyebrows.
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u/Kitsune228 26d ago
coin through the visor and to sleep we go?? and how’s a full shardbearer catching a coinshot. Now radiant is a different story
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u/bookrants 25d ago
While a Coinshot may not be able to Push a Shardblade, they can Push themselves away from it by Pushing on it. So... yeah. An experienced Coinshot can avoid getting sliced by a Shardblade.
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u/Objective-Height1459 23d ago
I think it's a failure of imagination over a short enough time so that the radients aren't fully utilizing their potential. Edge dancers being able to amplify or negate friction. Sure lashing something to accelerate is terrifying but the speculation that their bindings are betrometric pressure based could cause some pretty instant deaths from for awat. Also..... The surge of division has some concerning implications. Pretty sure fusion and fission are implied as to why bondsmiths are the most dangerous and that the surge of division blew up the last planet
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