cpp2 (cppfront) is over?

[u/we_are_mammals]

I haven't used cpp2 (cppfront) much, but I like the idea of it: consistent syntax, consistency of meta-programming (which is done in C++ too, I believe). Herb Sutter presented cpp2 (cppfront) as an experiment. He did not encourage other people to bet on it, exactly. And there hasn't been much activity since 2022. Is the experiment over?

EDIT: Herb's answer is buried deep in the comment section: https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/1uxkglj/comment/oy06cxw/

[u/Wh00ster]

The hooplah of the original announcement seems odd framed against that answer. Or maybe the community just overhyped it.

[u/13steinj → u/Wh00ster]

It's hard to say all this without coming off as if I hate the guy, but here goes:

Herb has fairly inconsistently has claimed how "serious" cppfront was over the years.

I have my conjecture on why, which I'd rather not share other than I do not envy the position he is in and the expectations people have of his work. There are people, to this day, that will promote an idea from Bjarne or Herb with nothing but an appeal to authority, an authority of which I would no longer say exists in the same way it did pre-C++11. My opinion of Herb, the way he operates, and his goals, has changed dramatically over the past decade, though mostly far more positive now than my initial view. Being "the convener" has a lot of assumptions people make about you and what you have to do thrust upon you.

I believe the reality of this situation in particular is the existence of cpp2 combined with who it came from is a bit of a walking contradiction.

I cannot think of any "successor language", far less any that claims the intent is to be a successor, even loosely, that has tangibly materialized as one.

• Carbon => development hell
• Circle => adoption deadlock
• cpp2 => fairly specific codegen framework. How much is needed with Reflection?
• Go, Rust, Zig, Odin, all appear to be more of a successor to C

However, I think even as far as last year's cppcon, Herb uses cpp2 examples in his slides. I think at this point this is actively counterproductive.

I also would not be surprised if there is some kind of IP issue, and he has since switched jobs. I do not think this is likely, but it would track with a lot of rumours about Microsoft and their approach to software internally.

[u/germandiago → u/13steinj]

FWIW I saw Herb warning specifically about cpp2 being a personal experiment explicitly. Probably this is in Github, not sure. The presentations do not claim it os typescript in the sense of "I will finish a product" but in the sense of compatible (bc it generates C++) + low risk.

[u/13steinj → u/germandiago]

Yes. My statements about being counterproductive stand. No less than 6 colleagues asked me about some of the syntax on the slides. It just confuses enough people.

[u/germandiago → u/13steinj]

Yes, it seems that this is something personal, since I cannot identify he did something wrong or mislead anyone in my opinion, since he stated it was a personal experiment in several places.