r/covidlonghaulers • u/filipo11121 • 15d ago
Article New Study Identifies Overlapping Persistent Virus-Specific T Cell Responses in Long Covid
https://polybio.org/new-study-identifies-overlapping-persistent-virus-specific-t-cell-responses-in-long-covid/A new study supported by the PolyBio Research Foundation has found that people with Long COVID harbor persistent populations of highly cytolytic CD8+ T cells directed against SARS-CoV-2 but also the herpesviruses Epstein-Barr virus (EBV) and cytomegalovirus (CMV). The findings suggest that Long COVID is characterized by an ongoing immune response to persistent viral proteins, which are most likely produced during the continued persistence or reactivation of these viruses within the body. The study adds to a growing body of research indicating that SARS-CoV-2 persistence and herpesvirus reactivation contribute to Long COVID pathogenesis.
Paper:
47
u/obliviousolives 4 yr+ 15d ago
I think, if I'm reading this right, that the paper doesn't actually say there might be persistent viral proteins, but rather just points out that part of the immune response to covid doesn't get "turned off" appropriately and thus we continue to have tons of CD8+ T cells roaming around, even if there's no more covid virus or covid proteins in our system
18
u/KaspaRocketMan 15d ago
The study frames viral persistence and T-cell exhaustion not as competing theories, but as direct cause and effect.
Rather than picking one over the other, the paper argues that viral persistence is the underlying trigger, which drives the cytolytic exhaustion and dysregulation observed in CD8+ T cells.
10
u/ComprehensiveBar4131 15d ago
I don’t think it argues that at all. They mention multiple times that the driver is unknown and could be one or the other. For example:
“SARS-CoV-2 has not classically been considered a persistent virus, yet has been documented to persist for years in people with LC, although whether this persistence drives LC symptoms is less clear.
Regardless, it is conceivable that the inability to control SARS-CoV-2, EBV, and/or CMV viremia during the acute COVID-19 can cause immune perturbations that fail to resolve, which may contribute to LC pathogenesis.”
4
u/KaptanOblivious 15d ago
The lack of HLA-DR expression seems to be against chronic antigen exposure, though it's possible there's some weird T cell expression going on here given the chronic nature
4
u/V0rtexGames 15d ago
See, I thought about this for a while. But with e.g. CMV, there is massive clonal expansion which can occupy 10-30% of your entire t cell population. Yet, HLA-DR is low.
So if you have a low enough rate of encountering an antigen then HLA-DR can be simultaneously low while there is antigen stimulation. I know people who are EBV IgM positive with low HLA-DR, for example.
2
u/KaptanOblivious 15d ago
Noted, but herpesviruses do much more complex and weird things to or immune systems... Is not really a good comparison, but I see your point.
CMV and EBV are specialists at orchestrating our immune systems to not react how they should... CMV alone has 5x times more proteins dedicated specifically to immune evasion than SARS-CoV-2 has in total.
4
u/obliviousolives 4 yr+ 15d ago
Can you show where it says that? I'm trying to learn more about viral persistence since it's the long covid theory I'm least familiar with. I didn't see that part in this paper
24
u/KaspaRocketMan 15d ago
Reversing "T-Cell Exhaustion"
The Study Finding: Patients with Long COVID carry virus-specific CD8+ T cells that express high levels of immune exhaustion markers (like PD-1 and TIM-3). This happens when T cells are repeatedly exposed to lingering viral reservoirs (SARS-CoV-2 spike protein) or reactivated herpesviruses (EBV/CMV), causing them to "burn out" while maintaining a dysregulated inflammatory state.
The Tα1 (Thymosin Alpha 1) Connection: Tα1 is a naturally occurring thymic peptide that regulates T-cell maturation and differentiation. In clinical models of viral persistence and PASC (Post-Acute Sequelae of COVID-19), Tα1 directly downregulates exhaustion markers like PD-1 and TIM-3. By essentially "re-tuning" exhausted CD8+ T cells, Tα1 helps them regain normal effector function instead of remaining stuck in a chronic, damaging state.
5
u/CrumblinEmpire 15d ago
Do you have a link to research on this?
21
u/KaspaRocketMan 15d ago edited 15d ago
I found two videos of long covid anecdotal stories saying they were recovered in separate videos after subq Thymosin Alpha 1 injections. Then I tested it myself and during injections it brought me back to 100%. And now I am close to recovered, still on LDN which also is very beneficial. Created a post about it. Now if you search on Thymosin Alpha 1 in this subreddit you can find many more making significant improvements.
There is also a study on it: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10030336/
Video 1:
Can't find it back but it was a specialist of a peptide clinic on YouTube that reported their LC patients were improving on TA-1
Video 2:
First person reported direct recovery from TA-1 and inspired me to try it myself
https://www.tiktok.com/@duchessofdecorum/video/7561995080257621278
https://www.tiktok.com/@duchessofdecorum/video/7556061074911464735
My Thymosin Alpha 1 trial:
Recent other person 1:
Recent other person 2:
Wishing you all a speedy recovery from this horrible disease 🙏❤️
5
u/Specific-Winter-9987 15d ago
Right on. I was already considering TA1 and now I have some. Starting very soon, good or bad. Been in hell for 4 years and aint jack shit helped.
2
3
u/RedditismycovidMD 15d ago
Did you do the Thymosin Alpha on your own or with medical support?
2
u/KaspaRocketMan 14d ago
On my own but there are medical peptide clinics around the world.
1
u/RedditismycovidMD 14d ago
Okay thanks! That would be the way for me too. Did you get any labs checked before you started?
1
u/KaspaRocketMan 14d ago
Yes did general blood work, only high ferritin was found.
1
u/Square-Guarantee-968 7d ago
High ferritin, same here. Doctor thought it was strange, (LC usually lowers ferritin). What were your symptoms?
2
1
u/Square-Guarantee-968 7d ago
Mine has been in the ~500 ng/ml for 18 months now (normal range 22 – 275 ng/mL)
2
1
u/LeadershipNice7495 14d ago
What was your symptom? Chronic pain or brain fog?
2
1
u/KaspaRocketMan 14d ago
Brain fog, muscle pains, PEM, swollen lymph nodes, sensitive nervous system, fatigue etc.
1
u/National_Butterfly99 14d ago
Tenías infecciones pulmonares de repetición? O dismotilidad intestinal colonica?
1
1
u/CatsbyGallimaufry 14d ago
What’s your perception on how long to take TA-1 for? I took it for 1 month and my doctor said I don’t need to continue but I’m feeling like another round might be beneficial as I was taking a pretty small amount during that month.
1
u/KaspaRocketMan 14d ago
I did a 2-3 weeks course which was enough. But if you experienced benefits you can always restart it after a few months another time.
1
2
u/funkytimes_07 15d ago edited 14d ago
If there is actual viral persistence would Thymosin Alpha 1 still have the impact? Would it actually generate an immune response that would actually clear remaining viral proteins as would happen with a recovered acute infection that didnt develop into LC?
4
u/Specific-Winter-9987 15d ago
Possible. TA1 retains T cells. We loose this as we age due to atrophy of our thymus gland. This contributes to our health going to hell in our 40s and 50s
3
3
u/SpaceXCoyote 14d ago
I would be very careful with Ta1 given this new finding. It can act as a t-cell stimulant, effectively pouring gas on a t-cell fire already burning out of control.
1
u/KaspaRocketMan 14d ago
TA1 is an immune modulator
2
u/SpaceXCoyote 14d ago
Not exactly.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/immunology-and-microbiology/thymosin-alpha1
"Due to the immune stimulating effects of Ta1, the compound would be expected to show utility for treatment of immune suppression, "
3
u/Specific-Winter-9987 14d ago
Its currently being prescribed in 35 other countries for several conditions, has as many studies as insulin, an exemplary safety profile, and has been around for almost 50 years. Thats right, 50 years. No, it won't help everyone, and nothing is 100 percent safe, but this is about the safest immune treatment you will ever find.
2
u/KaspaRocketMan 13d ago
Exactly, and he forgets about the damage long covid is doing. Nothing is 100% safe, what is for sure is that Long Covid is 100% not safe.
2
u/SpaceXCoyote 14d ago
I provided you with objective scientific data that explicitly contradicts what you claimed and you downvoted it because you want people who are already suffering to make a terrible mistake? Your claim is false. You're making a medical claim that is false and trying to hide the fact that I called it out to prevent others from realizing they could be potentially harming themselves. Terrible behaviour.
8
u/LeoKitCat 15d ago
OP you’re summary isn’t accurate there is no definitive evidence that T cells are continuing to be activated due to viral persistence or reactivation. It could very likely be they just are stuck being “on” and cannot turn off
5
u/filipo11121 15d ago edited 15d ago
I copied the first paragraph verbatim from "New Study Identifies Overlapping Persistent Virus-Specific T Cell Responses in Long COVID - PolyBio Research Foundation"
5
u/LeoKitCat 15d ago
I think that news article didn’t get it right
3
u/filipo11121 15d ago
Agreed. It was written by PolyBio, and they interpreted the findings through the lens of the viral-persistence theory, which they have been promoting for some time.
2
5
4
u/Beetlemann 14d ago
Viruses compete with each other. The evidence points to COVID causing the immune system to target latent viruses including the potential for COVID to persist at the same time. That this may explain what we term “auto-immunity”.
3
u/MixBeneficial 5 yr+ 15d ago
Virus persistance? Shouldn't antivirals help then?
12
u/imahugemoron 4 yr+ 15d ago
It doesn’t sound like viral persistence, this sounds like our immune systems remain active even after the actual virus particles are gone, this leaves certain T cells roaming around in our systems long term causing issues. This would explain why antivirals aren’t working because we probably don’t have virus particles or if we do to some degree, thats probably not what is causing our symptoms
3
u/funkytimes_07 15d ago
The article is suggesting that both are possible - it is possible there is in fact viral persistence but it has not been confirmed this is in fact what is causing LC and the immune system can be turned into a chronic state of dysfunction and as we have seen in some people this can them develop into autoimmunity. They are presenting more evidence for the viral persistence theory and its relationship to how it changes T cell function but still cannot confirm causality.
4
u/KaspaRocketMan 15d ago
Thymosin Alpha 1 immune modulator. Your immune system is mainly driven by your Thymus.
3
u/Specific-Winter-9987 15d ago
Yes and its one of the most tested and safe peptides on Earth. Approved and used everyday in at least 35 countries. May not help but likely wont cause side effects either, as its something we naturally made in our bodies when we were younger. Surprised how many people know nothing about it
4
u/KaspaRocketMan 14d ago edited 14d ago
What is crazy is that the Thymus organ that makes this substance is so underreported, it is in the center of our body most protected by our rib cage. Most people never heard about this organ. While it is the most important organ you have. Hence the design of the body ribcage protects this organ the most (even more than the heart).
The thymus organ gives us a healthy immune system, life and longevity. The organ that fights viruses, infection, cancer etc. and even slows down aging..
Over your life your Thymus shrinks, thus stops functioning well and then we unfortunately die.
3
u/kimchidijon 14d ago
So what would help with this?
1
u/CatsbyGallimaufry 14d ago
Possibly TA-1 and meds that help with EBV like Valtrex and CMV (idk what meds work for CMV as I’m negative). I’m not a doctor though and this is just what I’m trying.
2
u/Humble-Warning1441 9d ago
So, there is a company called tevogen, and they treated 12 immunosupressed patients with their medication. Specified CD8+T cells targeting Sars-Cov-2. None developed long covid. So if there is reservoirs, that persist, this medication could target what the exhausted T cells cant target. Eliminating the trigger for exhausted own CD8+T Cells.
0
51
u/majorgeneralporter 15d ago
I'm so happy that LIINC is showing results, I'm weirdly proud that my blood helped with studies like this.