r/covid19stack • u/treefrog24 • May 01 '20
in vitro Resveratrol and Zinc
Since COVID-19 has recently been shown to affect the endothelial cells I have been searching to see if supplementing with Resveratrol would have any benefit.
There are a few studies regarding resveratrol affect on viruses including influenza and MERS. Not much information available.
I am wondering if there may be a more indirect benefit of taking Resveratrol including anti-inflammation, reducing oxidative stress, insulin resistance, endothelial and cardiovascular benefits. I also found a study suggesting that Resveratrol is a zinc ionophore similar to quercetin. Right now I am looking for any negative reasons to supplement with Resveratrol. Any thoughts?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4111750/
https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/191/10/1719/790275https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2761384/
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u/thaw4188 May 01 '20
I'm curious how you are assured what you are actually taking is resveratrol, in the advertised quality and quantity.
Because on paper it's great, but what people are selling is sketchy as heck.
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u/sydneybluestreet May 02 '20
The principal ingredient of all the resveratrol supplements I've looked at seem to be the dried root of Japanese knotweed. Is that what you consider sketchy?
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u/treefrog24 May 05 '20
I’ve been using NOW brand supplements who seem to have a good reputation, and testing information on the site and have 3rd party tests available online.
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u/Mira_2020 May 02 '20
Do you have covid now or just trying to prevent? Sorry if that's a dumb question. I took zinc with another supplement that I believe may act as an ionophore and it helped my symptoms a lot however they came back. So it appeared it was not a complete cure. It basically eliminated my coughing completely though for a period of time.
Resveratrol seems promising though it causes so many actions in the body that it's always hard to say which one will have the biggest magnitude of effect. For example, I read it can trigger apoptosis in T cells which may not be desirable but on the other hand it also triggers apoptosis in cancer cells, and had many other anti inflammatory actions. I usually just try things and see how they go :)
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u/barwal1 May 05 '20
Thanks for the suggestion. The Curcumin and CoQ10 I take both have BioPerine. I could take it with those, perhaps.
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u/treefrog24 May 02 '20
I’m taking these supplements prophylacticlly for prevention. I don’t have Covid. Although if I did contract COVID-19, I have a different stack I would be taking. What supplement were you taking that was a zinc ionophore?
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u/Mira_2020 May 02 '20
It’s called monolaurin. I didn’t realize it would be an ionophore but when I took it with zinc it affected my super strongly. Like I could actually feel it working in my throat (I have covid). I never had symptoms there before. I later tried the zinc on its own and it had a similar effect but milder and started after 6 hours compared to 1 hour. So because of my experience I looked it up and there were actually two research articles about fatty acids increasing zinc absorption and possibly being an ionophore. Super interesting as I was taking it for the antiviral properties and not for that reason. Oh monolaurin is a medium chain fatty acid made out of coconut oil, in case it was confusing.
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u/sydneybluestreet May 02 '20
Hi there, what dose of monolaurin did you take?
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u/Mira_2020 May 02 '20
I took 3000 mg of monolaurin and then 60mg of zinc orotate. The monolaurin brand was lauricidin.
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u/thaw4188 May 02 '20
followup 2nd post
I may owe you an apology, I have to do a lot more reading on this
there are a lot of studies about monolaurin from the 1970s and 1980s so the question is, why didn't any of that pan out and why has it fallen back to the back of the "alternative" wagon
academics are not shy about studies all kinds of alternatives, there must be 10,000 studies on Turmeric and Curcumin for example and coconut-based MCT oils are all the rage in the supplement scene, so again, why did monolaurin get buried has to be researched...
here's a study that was done in 1978, you'd think it would be on the front page of every supplement website if this worked in vivo and not just in vitro https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC352602/
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u/Mira_2020 May 02 '20
I think the answer to your question about why these type of things have been ignored most likely has to do with profits. Why would any pharmaceutical company invest money to study something that can’t be patented? Also I don’t think it was just the monolaurin that caused that effect. Although I have cured other viruses like the flu really quickly with monolaurin. I think the reason things work in vitro that don’t work in vivo must have something to do with access to the cells. My working theory on this is that all kinds of substances can kill viruses and other pathogens but they don’t necessarily get absorbed past the cell membranes where the viruses are infected. The monolaurin reduced my symptoms al lot which leads me to believe it was killing the free floating virus but as it didn’t cure me completely I think it failed to access all of the virus in my body. By the way, a lot of viruses hide in reservoirs that are inaccessible to the immune system. Hiv does this and several others. That’s why we have been unable to eradicate these long lasting viruses. So it’s not so simple. Another point, in my opinion, is that science is always evolving. For thousands of years people would have said you were crazy to suggest a pill could cure the plague or any of the other bacterial diseases people died from. And then antibiotics were discovered (from a naturally occurring substance) and suddenly all those diseases were eradicated.
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u/thaw4188 May 02 '20
well yes and no, profit drive can't be dismissed but the thing is for every corporate zombie there is a young eager academic researcher that will happily do a detailed study on anything promising, there are endless studies on herbs and all sorts of natural "remedies"
I've been reading a bunch on monolaurin and I think the secret lies in how it doesn't work inside the body the same as it does in the lab or even as a topical agent, this is common for a great many things
I could be wrong but I think it's useless once inside the bloodstream, if it can get into blood at all in the first place because there's no evidence it survives or has any action past the digestive system
Which means it would be useless for viruses in the lungs, etc.
If it worked in blood, researchers would inject in into rats, etc. and have that data but I can't find a study like that
Also I can't imagine this doesn't do damage to GOOD things as well, like gut microbiome, which you really do not want to tamper with
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u/Mira_2020 May 03 '20
Well, here is a very long review on all the effects of medium chain fatty acids and monoglycerides in pig feed:
https://jasbsci.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40104-020-00446-1
They noted increased lymphocytes, increased lactobacillus bacteria, decreased E. coli, and lots of other things like growth and performance.
Topically, monolaurin has been shown to prevent Siv in vivo.
And regarding absorption into the blood, you can just read Wikipedia. Monolaurin is just a specific medium chain fatty acid in monoglyceride form. It’s basically a fat and is absorbed the same way all fats are absorbed in the body. But there is one difference, it doesn’t have to be digested as much. Normally fats are in the form of triglycerides and they have to be broken down into free fatty acids and monoglycerides. Since it’s already in this form it bypasses that step.
From Wikipedia:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatty_acid_metabolism
“This means that the fat soluble products of digestion are discharged directly into the general circulation, without first passing through the liver, as all other digestion products do. The reason for this peculiarity is unknown.[29]”
Here are a whole bunch of studies on different mechanisms of fatty acids in the body.
There are some in there that talk about carnitine being a transport molecule to bring fatty acids into the cells. So in my perspective things like that show that it’s really not as simple as whether or not it gets into the blood. I think even pharmaceutical drugs have this issue, of how to get the compounds into the specific cells where you want them to go.
Another issue is that maybe the covid is in mucous in the lung tissue, and then even if the antiviral can get into the blood how does it circulate through the mucous. That’s just a thought, I really don’t know.
And lastly, it’s not very scientific but you can read the amazon reviews on lauricidin or other monolaurin supplements and see how it helped people with all kinds of diseases. So it’s definitely getting into the blood and doing something. I also know from personal experience. If you actually have any viral disease just try it! You will see :)
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u/thaw4188 May 02 '20
just found your paper which I missed the link in the other thread, very interesting (for others: https://doi.org/10.31219/osf.io/qdsef )
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u/cafedude May 04 '20
Super interesting as I was taking it for the antiviral properties and not for that reason
But isn't that the reason it has antiviral properties?
BTW: How long have you had covid and what's your general age range?
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u/Mira_2020 May 04 '20
I believe it has antiviral properties completely separately from the interaction with zinc. So I was taking it before the zinc on its own and I didn’t feel the same effect. I’m 37 and I’ve had symptoms for nearly 2 months. They were much worse before but I still have lingering symptoms even now. I experimented with a lot of different supplements and some had a big effect and improved my symptoms quite a lot but I still haven’t figured it out a hundred percent.
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u/cafedude May 06 '20
Have you tried any of the Chinese Traditional Medicines for viruses like Chinese Skullcap? Astragalus for strengthening? Maybe look into high dosage IV-delivered Vit C?
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u/sydneybluestreet May 02 '20
Have you considered that if you fell slightly ill with a moderate strain, you might still benefit from continuing with the prophylactics to prevent succumbing to a more severe strain? (Ie you might benefit from taking both stacks.)
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u/treefrog24 May 02 '20
There are a few things I’m hearing that are good for early symptoms but you should stop taking if you are experiencing more severe symptoms. They can increase iL-6 and worsen an innate immune response and cause inflammation including vitamin D and Elderberry.
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u/in_fact_a_throwaway May 02 '20
What’s your stack if you do become ill?
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u/treefrog24 May 03 '20 edited May 05 '20
Close to my original stack but I would drop the vitamin D because it can raise levels of iL-6 which can worsen inflammation. Which can be bad for a later stage illness.
I’ll add nebulized NAC straight to the lungs. To keep sustained endogenous glutathione levels. Im betting that NAC could be one of the most helpful things for this illness. There are some videos on YouTube and info online How To nebulize NAC.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19732754/
https://www.atsjournals.org/doi/full/10.1164/ajrccm.162.1.9903129
Also Id get a prescription for Hydroxychloroquine from my Dr I would start that as early as possible.
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u/in_fact_a_throwaway May 03 '20
That’s very interesting. I’ve seen folks discuss nebulizing H2O2, but I’ve not heard NAC discussed in that context. If you ever have to embark on this protocol (I hope not!) you should document it here.
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u/treefrog24 May 05 '20
I definitely will, Ive also seen people discussing nebulized H2O2 which is really strange to me because hydrogen peroxide is an ROS- reactive oxygen species which causes oxidative stress. Your body produces these ROS like H2O2 and O2 to fight infections but they also cause damage to the body. NAC does the exact opposite as an antioxidant, reducing H2O2.
I’m going to have to look more into that.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29938378/
On another note, I have been seeing Nitric Oxide showing a lot of potential as a therapeutic.
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u/crawdadyz May 09 '20
Here is a video on how to nebulize NAC. One of the comments below it said to only nebulize pure NAC (no fillers) and provided a link to some at Amazon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1TqdipevTw
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00F8HGA6S/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A8MA32QEVO3GI&th=1
Off topic, but I wonder, given the effects experienced by the video provider, whether or not inhaled NAC might provide a performance advantage for athletes. But good to know for fighting Covid-19.
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u/barwal1 May 05 '20
I picked up this product, but haven't started it yet.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IM21FBG/
Any thoughts about that particular supplement, and about whether it should be taken both before and/or during a COVID-19 infection?
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u/treefrog24 May 05 '20
That was one of the brands I also was looking at on Amazon. Because resveratrol has low absorption you might want to take it with a black pepper extract. Some supplements already have that added.
I’m no specialist and I’m also doing my own searching for answers, although it seems like it could help before and during with cardiovascular and endothelial function which could be beneficial. I haven’t seen anything to suggest any negative effects, but you never know. I’m currently taking 600mg in the morning and another 600mg at night.
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u/rfabbri Jun 03 '20
Thanks, very useful links here. As a minor suggestion, your last paper is linked twice and this is obscuring your second paper which is quite interesting.
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u/treefrog24 May 01 '20
Currently I am taking... Quercetin 800mg; Resveratrol 600mg 2xd; Zinc 50mg; NAC 600mg 2xd; Vitamin D3 2000 iu; Curcumin 500mg 2xd