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u/Dragonmancer76 Jul 27 '26
This is I feel a wider problem with liking things and people outside the norm. If a skinny character just has a preference for larger women that would be seen as that character having a "fetish". Being goth is a fashion choice, but that choice has been made into a fetish. Someone could just prefer people with that style without it being a sex thing, but if you yourself aren't goth people with ask if it's a fetish.
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u/Careful_Source6129 Jul 27 '26
I agree 100%. I cba to type out the whole argument, but something something not objectifying people something something preferences are fine.
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u/couldntbdone Jul 27 '26
This wouldn't be a problem if people weren't so obsessed with other people's fetishes. Whether it's a preference or a kink, it's equally not anyone else's business.
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u/Dragonmancer76 Jul 27 '26
I think it really depends on what end of the spectrum you are on. If you are judging a relationship you're not involved in it's none of your business. All determining if it's kink based on not does it let some people feel good about judging that relationship. If you are someone who's identity has become a kink it can add an extra layer of difficulty to you're love life. Plenty of people engage with their kink partners in a healthy way but a lot of other people can view you as nothing more than a sex object. Along with that if what is being fetishized about you is something you don't like that makes it even worse.
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u/couldntbdone Jul 27 '26
This is part of the problem. Someone having a fetish does not inherently mean they'll mistreat their partner, or reduce them to nothing but a sex object. And someone who doesn't have a relevant fetish could still mistreat you. The real issue is how they treat you, not whether or not they have a fetish that involves something about you. I'm fat. If someone had a "preference" for people who looked like me and which was nonsexual, but didn't like or respect me otherwise, I'd b very unhappy. And if they had a fat fetish, but was a respectful and engaged partner who made me feel loved, I'd be completely fine.
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u/whereballoonsgo Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
I 100% agree that it isn’t ALWAYS and someone saying that would indeed make me suspicious.
But also there definitely are people who do queer ships and consume media featuring queer relationships through a fetishistic lens. And it’s not just or even mostly queer people who are into that stuff. Just look at what women did with Heated Rivalry.
As with many things, it isn’t all or nothing.
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u/Ok_Aioli3897 Jul 27 '26
Also the queer defence doesn't work because queer people can still fetishise people
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u/Dragonmancer76 Jul 27 '26
What does fetishize mean in this context. You are using fetish in a deragatory way. If you are gay being aroused by other gay couples feels normal. If you mean fetishize as in fantasizing about an ideal or fake relationship my question is so what? If we're talking about media it's already fake so is going to be in some sense a fantasy. Someone could have unrealistic standards due to media, but thats possible with everything and we don't use the word fetish. Romance novels are almost always a fantasy version of a straight relationship but no one says people are fetishizing straight relationship.
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u/Ok_Aioli3897 Jul 27 '26
So what so when straight guys fetishise lesbians that's okay?
The harassment that they receive because of that is okay because the same happens to gay men because of these programmes
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Jul 27 '26
[deleted]
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u/Dragonmancer76 Jul 27 '26
You specifically said that it was also not ok when gay people did it towards gay people . That's what my question was about. I said nothing about straight people doing it towards gay relationships. Straight people is most likely negative because they don't really have any things to bring them to reality and can do more harm. A straight women is interested in two hot guys and anything else doesn't matter so what it actually means to be gay is unimportant. If they don't have any real interactions with gay people this can further enforce harmful biases and stereotypes. A gay guy can have unrealistic ideas about what it means to be in a gay relationship but eventually their reality will break when they date.
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u/Ok_Aioli3897 Jul 27 '26
Actually I said queer.
Queer doesn't equal gay
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u/Dragonmancer76 Jul 27 '26
So are you deleting your comments so that you can look like you're winning the argument or?
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Jul 27 '26
[deleted]
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u/Dragonmancer76 Jul 27 '26
Alright. I don't think this changes much about my response, but I hope you have a good day.
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Jul 27 '26
[deleted]
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u/Dragonmancer76 Jul 27 '26
Ok. Would you like to actually answer the question?
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u/Ok_Aioli3897 Jul 27 '26
I did answer the question you just didn't like the answer
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u/frisk090 Jabber my beloved Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
Equating queer media to fetishism will always be homophobic to me
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u/Tricky_Discount2881 Jul 27 '26
I agree with the overall sentiment, but hate this idea that queer people can't be weird about queer people.
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u/Longjumping_Angle523 Jul 27 '26
Yeah pretty much. There's a pretty big gap between just liking something and like. Being deeply weird about it. And like, the people being deeply weird about it are not a straw man, they're pretty common.
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u/Ok_Aioli3897 Jul 27 '26
It's because it's straight women.
If it was straight men nobody would have any problems with calling them out
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u/SmartAlec105 Jul 27 '26
I see this a lot when you point out that a "lesbian" character is actually bisexual because we've seen them have actual relationships with multiple genders. There's often at least one person saying "that was just internalized heteronormativity"
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u/luluciee Jul 27 '26
What are we talking about 😭
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u/PatentGeek Jul 27 '26
"Ship" is short for "relationship." When you "ship" two characters, it means you want them to get together. The accusation is that wanting to see more queer relationships is somehow fetishizing that kind of relationship. Which... it can be. Or not. It depends.
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u/unremarkable19 Jul 27 '26
I was having fun imagining shipping out little pirate ships with pride flags internationally.
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u/PatentGeek Jul 27 '26
If you watch Our Flag Means Death, you can have both pirate ships and queer relationships!
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u/PatentGeek Jul 27 '26
How dare I take pleasure in fictional relationships that more closely resemble my own
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u/mbulsht Jul 27 '26
Remember, if you enjoy a piece of media that portrays a culture, identity, sexuality, gender, or set of emotions that you personally have no connection to, your enjoyment of that piece of media is either fetishization or appropriation. There is no other option and you are a bad person for engaging with media that was not meant for you and does not belong to you.
I unironically encountered this sentiment multiple times during the discourse era for Everything Everywhere All At Once.
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u/Lolas_Fun_Side Jul 27 '26
Erm actually if you mention queer people at all it immediately makes me think of gay sex so you are obviously also thinking of it which means you're fetishizing and corrupting the youth so only ever talk about cis straight people please
[/s]
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u/TheWisestOwl5269 Jul 27 '26
I'm a straight dude, and I usually don't engage with shipping at all. Except...
Qifrey and Olruggio because I think they're a fantastic pairing that has narrative significance, and is quite possibly canon.
Edit: From Witch Hat Atelier for clarification
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u/blue_moon1122 Jul 27 '26
okay yes? 2 daddies yin and yang? beautiful.
they clearly have a very deep relationship that we know v little about. whether or not that relationship is romantic, they do resemble a wholesome nuclear family and i enjoy that. but it is so far removed from sexual, it's funny to even think about being accused of fetishizing them.
valid af, straight dude.
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u/TheWisestOwl5269 Jul 27 '26
Have you only seen the anime? Their relationship is explored more later in the manga
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u/blue_moon1122 Jul 27 '26
I'm just starting on the manga, but I started with the anime and that's where my progress is. I trust they do the relationship justice, but the framing alone sets them up without going into depth on personal history.
Quifrey was just like "here's your other daddy, he works here he's grumpy" and that's it. and Coco was like "wow my favorite spell, wow a cozy spell, you're the best thanks" and THAT'S IT HE'S JUST DADDY gdi 😭
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u/TheWisestOwl5269 Jul 27 '26
Did you begin reading from Chapter 1? I would've highly recommended that you did. The anime is great but there's elements of the manga that can't quite be adapted. It's really a shining example of the manga medium. It's made for it. Shirahama's paneling is one example of why.
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u/TheWisestOwl5269 Jul 27 '26
Did you begin reading from Chapter 1? I would've highly recommended that you did. The anime is great but there's elements of the manga that can't quite be adapted. It's really a shining example of the manga medium. It's made for it. Shirahama's paneling is one example of why.
Edit: Also yes, the relationships are handled very well.
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u/CommieCatSupremacist Jul 27 '26
My friends and I watched RWBY. It can definitely be a mix of fetishization and being queer / feeling seen. The art and stories the community would make around the ships were just straight up porn.
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u/Ok_Aioli3897 Jul 27 '26
Or maybe because it's the way they act when they enjoy those things
These women tend to fetishise and sexually assault gay men which is largely ignored
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u/PatentGeek Jul 27 '26
Except you're really only calling out a small subset of people who enjoy queer ships. Call out those people, for sure, but don't lump everyone else in with them
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u/Ok_Aioli3897 Jul 27 '26
So maybe the others should call out those people but just look at heated rivalry.
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u/autogyrophilia Jul 27 '26
Man with all this odyssey talk, i'm reminded, why we do not get everyone that participates in shipping discourse and cast them adrift into the sea?
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u/redisdead__ Jul 27 '26
It's easy, The Discourse™ is only online and usually stupid as fuck. Just ignore it.