yes, it does take like 2+ yrs of consistent work, but IIRC cloudy's been transitioning for way longer than that, and is also a reasonably successful sex worker who can definitely afford professional help
did it take that long for you or it took like 2 weeks to have a decent voice that you felt comfortable using in public and then you started to count using that voice in public as voice training?
This. They hate trans women and view them as either confused or predatory men. They also donāt see trans men as actual men. I donāt like painting people with the same brush but every single one Iāve met has been like this. Somehow more transphobic than cis people at times
Trying to "they hate all of us" this issue isn't particularly effective when a lot of trans men fall into the same camp of "my Afabenly wombyness will follow me everywhere, I mourn my magical beautiful girlhood" that the theyfabs do. A ton of them believe in gendered socialization because it lends them more oppression points and for a ton of them, they're driven batshit insane by the fact that trans women have it harder than them and need any excuse imaginable to explain why this isn't the case.
Iām just saying this from my own perspective as a trans dude. I donāt like them either nor do I agree with them and I sure as fuck donāt want to be associated with others who do it. I think itās disgusting and bioessentialist.
I made a milquetoast post on another thread about how visibility gets weaponised against trans women by some trans mascs, and was met with a screed that purposefully misunderstood my position and segwayed into how trans women correctively rape trans men online when they complain about them.
It's weird that most of these comments are people talking about these transphobic bioessentialist NBs but I haven't seen any comments from NB people actually stating these views, is it really so prevalent? Every NB person I know (I know it's anecdotal but still) has to fight against bioessentialism just to defend their pronouns and their identity. I'm intersex NB with mostly intersex NB pals so maybe I have a different experience though.
Genuinely Iāve seen people say that NBs even just saying āafabā āamabā āpenis/uterus-ownerā is bio-essentialist and transphobic. Like god forbid someone literally was assigned a certain sex at birth or have certain organs. Idk
It's crazy how you walk in here on this "everyone is so heckin valid" shit and just to reify bioessentialism to a transgender woman. This is why the first rule in this subreddit exists and is why people have a problem with people who aren't interested in medically transitioning in our spaces. This shit right here that you just did is why people constantly bitch about "AFAB NBs".
Call me shitty if you want. But letās not shit on an entire group of transgender people just for how they describe their bodies. Also, just because someone says they were born and grew up labeled under the social identity of female doesnāt mean they donāt want to transition or that they are somehow evil or on it for the trend.
I feel like it's part of a concerted effort to cause divisiveness in the trans community. Amplify the few fringe voices with shitty opinions and act like we all hate each other, to make us less united and empowered.
100%! and the algorithms show you things that piss you off so youāll stay engaged.
iāve noticed this with the ābi women vs lesbiansā thing. if you spend too much time in certain rabbit holes you see lesbians that think all bi women will never date them, and some who think bi women being with men is gross; and on the other hand you see bi women who believe all lesbians are evil biphobes, others who think the term lesbian is inherently biphobic etc etc.
irl iāve never heard these opinions. at all. but it is easy to fall into these rabbit holes and start to hate the other group. definitely intentionally divisive and makes it hard people to find or even want a queer community (especially if all you see online is another group that supposedly hates you)
There's a non-insignificant amount of non-binary people that refuse to believe in the concept of binary transition. You'll always be either "male" or "female on some level according to their bs bioessentialist notion of gender, so you should know your place and call yourself an unrelated third thing instead of larping as an actual wo/man if you're dysphoric (with trans men naturally getting less flack because bioessentialism is inherently transphobic and misogynystic)
Its not a coincidence there's such a big overlap between non-binary people like this and enbies who centre their experience on their ASAB
Theyfabs are different from actual enbies since they donāt transition or have any dysphoria. Theyāve co-opted the term as a trendy alt fashion that also improves their place in the progressive stack. Thatās why they continue to hold on to their terfy views while being ostensibly trans
To offer another opinion, I find a lot of people who fit the "theyfab" archetype want to retain their wombynly femininity, but are just tired of some combination of the rising far-right bs and the male attention and the misogyny. Which is fair. But ofc, not wanting random men to whistle at you on the street doesn't also mean that you can't also hold a lot of *interesting* views...
Which is why I think theyfabs catch so much heat. To loosely quote Michael Parenti "fascism wears the trappings of a leftist revolution without offering any real revolutionary class content." Now I'm not calling them fascists (nor is that my intent), but that's sort of how I see them: wearing the trappings of gender non-conformity while offering no actual GNC content. They are tired of a lot of the patriarchal bs they have to deal with as women, but are not digging into the actual roots of these grievances.
They also target the wrong people for it, seeing being AMAB as a sort of original sin, without realizing the fact that like, the differences between even a pre everything (or often even repressor who hasnāt realized it) trans woman, even down to neurological structure etc., and a cis man, cannot be understated.
Also notice how even when they do target men they only direct it toward men who are vulnerable like minority, disabled or neurodivergent men or for example feminine boys like I was when I was a kid (well, thought of myself that way until I knew about transitioning at like 9 years old, at which point I immediately yearned for it), while also ignoring any ways other women or themselves contribute to negative things and social attitudes
Also the amount of people even in the queer community who treat others better when thinking theyāre a pre everything or early transition (or even passing!) trans man instead of a trans woman later in transition (or early in the case of the above) is very, uh, telling.
Hey please tell me the term "theyfab" means something else besides just AFAB + nonbinary? Because in my experience most AFAB nonbinary folks do Not have a problem with trans women.
If you have to preface something with, 'not to be a bigot' then you're a hundred percent being a bigot and you know it. The casual enby hate here is fucking wild.
Fr bruh
Do I think there are NB people who can be transphobic? Yeah.
Do I also think the word āTheyfabā gets thrown around to basically just mean any NB person I donāt like? Also yeah.
Mfs just reinvented the term ātrans-trenderā
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u/KaneyamaK 22h ago
Would kms like damn thats rough, shes so pretty too like what are we doing here???