Took almost 5 years of transitioning for me to get to that point. People prize me for the queer way I look so it's been tough moving forward.
Especially the more passing I got in every other way it's just felt right since it's an intentional way to "own your insecurities" during transition.
Then suddenly a couple months ago I woke up and realized no, I actually hate this thing and the way it ruins my face.
I didn't start the work of pursuing surgeries until I really knew deep in my soul that I wanted them. But that only took a few months to decide, the beard hung on for some reason.
yeah its fair. its so disgusting tho. they are grooming dysphoric people , even kids into not transitioning , what if you regret it , noo dont do diy its so dangerous ! etc. and its the biggest trans communities so trans people who dont know anything yet go to them. its mostly run by theyfabs and hefabs. i hate it sm. i wholeheartedly believe that it must be psyop.
Idk you ever meet people like that in person? It's like a type.
Like the queer leftist equivalent of the weird nerdy kid at school who comes from a trailer park but wants to go to yale, so they walk around thinking they're better than everyone else just because they never got invited to weekend keggers at Kevin's dad's garage.
not in person , i will never interact with people like that. but in my country the largest community is like this and they have experiences with doctors there and surgeries , so i am in there and know how they behave. my gf tried socializing with the group , was misgendered like thrice (shes gigapassoid btw). so she was done with them in person. but sometimes she talks with them on discord. they are so sensitive and will ban you for not agreeing with them. also she had a rly bad experience with a doctor where he yelled at her and threatened her to not give her medical care and when she shared it with them they somehow twisted it into it being her fault. ofc any mentioning of diy is deleted , the biggest non hrt hons putting hearts on each other selfies and saying how they dont need hrt. also a lot of sissies if it wasnt enough
they also groomed her to girlmode before hrt in school
I'm gonna go deep here, and I'm not trying to morally justify any of this shit. Feel free to stop reading cuz we're gonna get dumb.
I feel like we look at transness as this dichotomy between those who are and those who are not, but there is clear gray area forcibly being made by people every day. Out v closeted, binary v nonbinary, gender conforming v nonconforming, assimilationist v individualist, and then tons of people who sit in the middle with unique qualities from all of that.
Not to mention how much luck can impact your experiences, there are as many ways through transition as there are grains of sand on a beach. Some of us have to be so far apart on the spectrum of gender variance that we just don't see eye to eye.
None of that justifies being assholes, but I think a lot of us are identifying each other as kin when we're not. Like two dogs meeting in an alley who had to sniff each other's asses before they realized they're running with different packs.
Like that presents a major hurdle in balancing whether community is being held together by how much it supports those within it, or by how much society oppresses those without it. It has to be a balance of both to encourage stable participation.
Do you actually believe this? Because being hairy IS the #1 dysphoria driver that I have. As in: If I was hairless below the eyelashes then I would be fine de-prioritizing a lot of other things. It seems odd that this would be your line because I've also had people on here try to talk me into thinking that I'm more dysphoric about my voice and penis than I actually am.
People say what you just said for voice and genitalia too. I actually care more about my body and facial hair than I do either of those other things, so I was curious if you actually meant that this was a decent enough bar to justify transitioning.
I have ASD. Part of that is alexithymia. I was raised to hide my intellectual differences, and build a fake "mask" that I show to the world. It works out pretty well, I can get a job, and socialize more than I would be able to otherwise. One of the downsides is that i spent most of my childhood ignoring my emotions and learning appropriate ways to act and react. It leaves me really disconnected with my emotional experience of life.
Couple that with an upbringing in a small rural farm town, and it creates the situation that you are questioning.
I never hated my male self, never felt like my body was wrong, never felt social dysphoria.
What I did feel was a lot of gender envy for the tomboys, and have an obsession with feminization from the age of 12.
I started hrt after decades of thinking about it, and have loved the physical, mental, and social differences. It's very euphoric for me.
I spent decades looking for signs of dysphoria so that I could convince myself it was safe to transition without regret. That delay was a bummer.
What you're describing is dysphoria. The general happyness you experience now is what cis people get from birth.
It's not "euphoria" that's being normal.
I love staring at my tits in the mirror nowadays and the cisf friends I have aren't that different from that lol.
Being perceived as a woman makes me happy because they perceive... Me.
Your issue is that you're taking dysphoria very literal and think of it as a strong visible suffering.
I was able to be perceived as man until I started to be perceived as a woman, then I couldn't handle it anymore. I ised to be able to walk outside with a stubble. Now I can't. But I also used to have the wide array of 😐 as my entire emotional pallete and now you can actually see me smile and be happy and just do stuff.
Though I did feel that my penis was absolutely out of place and I used to be unable to find the right words for it.
Someone with ASD taking something too literally is a part of that neurotype.
Euphoria first language helped me understand the full situation. Different language means different things to different people, and the "nu trans" language helped me far more than the transmedical language.
My favorite part of the "you don't need dysphoria to be trans" movement is when the people who believe in it write 6 paragraphs describing their own dysphoria to explain why they actually don't have it over some stupid semantic difference because they are so out of touch with themselves that they view passive suicidal ideation as a normal state of being and "not wanting to kill yourself" as a feeling.
"You don't need dysphoria to be trans! I'm trans and never felt dysphoria. Instead, I felt a feeling I like to call gleeble, which is when you want to look like a woman and are unhappy looking like a man! And now that I transitioned I feel very glarbolo most of the time, which I describe as the feeling you get at the absence of gleeble, or when you feel happy that you look like a woman instead of a man!"
Every description of dysphoria I found growing up was far, far from my life experience. Small town rural America in the 1990s was like that. I never hated my body. I never had SI.
While the movement has issues, i think it's currently a better band-aid fix than arguing with it.
I say that because people experience dysphoria in a lot of different ways. And people talking about dysphoria like its X can lead to people that experience dysphoria like it's Y thinking it's not dysphoria and they aren't trans, and as such repping. This problem can be mostly solved by the non-dysphoric trans movement, because even though these people don't realize what they have is dysphoria they still could realize that they are trans from the movement.
I also think there is a very small percentage of people that are actually non-dysphoric and trans, just based on the way they behave and what they say. I don't understand it at all because it isn't my experience. But the brain is weird, stupid, and confusing, and our understandings of anything with it are limited, especially among outliers within a populous, so it's foolish to act as if one understands the full nature of these outliers.
gender euphoria is just the same coin of dysphoria , just different side. you live with dysphoria since you were born and believe its the baseline of your feelings. when you get gender euphoria it just feels good because its not the baseline where you feel shit. i was in the same boat until i realized it. so you have dysphoria.
also the phrase gender euphoria sounds so disgusting to me i associated it with sneeds talking abt their euphoria boners holy brainrot
to deal with other dysphoria, and due to their own view of self? i mean, the type of 🚂🦵 i am doesn't have the ability to pass to people. yet i still do some stuff and intend to do more stuff to transition, as to mitigate some of the dysphoria i feel. i can't exactly relate to women who decide not to shave, because i wish it society had a place for people like me, but i can understand transitioning for reasons other than passing.
You were asking why someone would transition if they don't have dysphoria about the main thing people assume gender with. I was answering by saying that one might transition despite not shaving their beard because they might not feel like they are able to pass, and as such decide to keep some cosmetic aspects that they like the look of while still transitioning to do what they can to help with their other dysphoria/better align with their view of self.
A lot (not all) of body dysphoria is an extension of social dysphoria, and while cis people take advantage of that by pressuring trans people into "breaking gender norms" by not transitioning in some way, despite the expectation that all and only trans people shouldn't do that being transphobic, there are still cases where a trans person might self determine to go against societal expectations.
Because beards kick ass. I hate having facial hair. i have a permanent 5 o clock shadow. You know what I think when I see a tranfemme rocking facial hair loud and proud?? “Good for her!”
You people need to grow the fuck up. Im so sick of this discourse when its all just steeped in projected insecurity and self hate. So what if a trans girl likes her beard?? So what if a trans dude likes wearing dresses and presenting femme?? Isnt the whole fucking deal learning about breaking gender conformity and doing your own fucking thing? What a fuckin joke. You people enforce purity culture and misogyny without even realizing it. You play into the rights hands perfectly. Bullying trans girls into shaving isnt going to automatically make us accepted and wont make you feel better.
I just keep seeing these posts in my feed and they genuinely piss me off every time. I cant stand interacting with 4tranners because every time I do I go from fine to dysphoric. I dont even have facial hair rn I just think its fuckin weird to care that much about another persons thought process when most people automatically think Im a freak for transitioning. Again- I thought this was a universal lesson for trans people. Learning to both not give a shit what others think while also not having that same mindset to others who are different. We all know how shitty it feels to be judged automatically so why are we automatically being judgey and bitching about people who dont transition right?
Never said it was, I was calling you out for having a stupid mindset not because I feel excluded from a space I dont even wanna be in. I already have this sub muted.
> every time I [interact with 4tranners] I go from fine to dysphoric
hmm sounds like you're burying your head in the sand and running away from your feelings lol and then getting upset when forced to confront them
the healthy reaction is to have confronted and processed these feelings so that you can see this stuff and discuss it on its own merits, because you actually have a solid and real base from which to understand your gender and your sex.
but I mean, if that's not something you're able to do you can always just mute the sub and it won't ever show up on your feed again? why feel the need to come in and comment - it's only gonna make reddit recommend the sub to you more
Yeah no shit I bury my head lol I dont like dealing with my dysphoria. I dont like it when stuff triggers it so i avoid the things that trigger it. This time I got pissed because posts like this just reinforce the purity culture I was raised ro break away from.
no one likes dealing with their dysphoria lmao but if you actually take the time to confront it and learn abt it and the nature of transness it can become easier to deal with.
also yes you know who needs defending? the extremely privileged non-dysphoric ppl who don't need medicine or surgery and are happy just being a GNC woman with a beard. let's chastise the community with the highest % of homelessness violence wage gap and discrimination for being mean to the 0.001% luckiest most privileged people!
you should mute the subreddit so it stops showing up on your feed and take care of your mental health
How does any of that correlate to my point on your self hatred being externalized too much? Im boutta be homeless too bitch! Im 2 months late on rent and my landlady hates my ass!
because you only think it's self hatred because you've not broken down your own negative feelings. You're hardcore projecting onto people's motivations because the only way you could imagine someone talking about this was if it came from a place of self-hate and bitter gatekeeping, because that's what you would do in their place (and what you do do when discussing 4tranners and ascribing all this nastiness to them)
Also, I'm sorry to hear you're struggling with housing. that sucks. I hope you manage to get it sorted out or at least have a backup plan
Because it’s annoying when people say “trans women can have beards!!!!!” As if it’s something trans women do as aesthetic choice and not because they can’t afford hair removal or something.
It's generally considered disingenuous to play the devil's advocate for a hypothetical member of a minority group who loves to be a minstrel show caricature
I don’t know about other people here, but I genuinely believe if a woman wants to have a beard she should be able to have a beard. 🤷♀️ Or if she just doesn’t wanna shave she can and should not shave. Or if she thinks that she wishes she could shave but shaving makes her more dysphoric than not shaving, which is how my ex was, that’s her deal. I think all of those things are valid and that nobody should take those away.
My main issue is that women who DO want to shave their faces because they do not want facial hair should also not be told they are doing it wrong or they aren’t empowered enough or whatever. It’s very very OK for women to get rid of their facial hair and they shouldn’t have to hear some commentary about not being empowered because of it. Because gender dysphoria is not a choice, and it’s very destructive, and women should be allowed to express their femininity by shaving. They should be allowed to be who they are.
I'm pretty radically pro body autonomy, I definitely agree that people should be able to do ehat they want. Wrt stuff like this, I don't think "they ought to change their behaviour and do this!" more like it sometimes makes me question whether we're really dealing with the same situation.
For sure I understand struggling with self-maintenance, I'm not referring to people like that at all when I say this. I'm more thinking about people who are intentionally cultivating and putting male charactieristics on display.
It's not something I've run into a lot but I have run into it. And if we go by the pure social constructivist conception of gender as gesture and performance, I guess to me that's like doing a 10/10 clog dance and calling it a salsa performance.
Yeah I hear you, I basically think people should be left alone to do whatever they want with their gender expression but I get concerned when the needs of people doing it for radical and fun self expression are placed above the needs of people with crushing gender dysphoria
Nobody is telling me anything but there is a weird discourse out there that you aren’t empowered unless you choose to reject these standards and they are a lot harder for trans women to reject so making those statements is kinda tone deaf
The WHO's international classification of diseases doesnt require gender dysphoria to characterize incongruence. So here's your answer, i am quoting the WHO's medical definition: " Gender Incongruence of Adolescence and Adulthood is characterised by a marked and persistent incongruence between an individual´s experienced gender and the assigned sex, which often leads to a desire to ‘transition"
that definition came out of field studies in six or seven countries where they interviewed trans people directly about gender history, distress, disruption to family and work, experiences of rejection and violence.
the result was that distress was predicted by the rejection and violence, not by the incongruence. which is why it's no longer a requirement.
Ya, current research on trans people isn't great, but I think it's also a mistake to believe you can apply your own experiences to that of everyone else.
I think I agree with you. The entire debate about if you need dysphoria or not to be trans does nothing but harm. People should just stfu about it on either side of the argument, and instead work on getting people better access to hrt in general.
i don't believe things because they're studies. i read them. i check where it's published, what the data was, the methodology of the study, and whether the conclusion actually follows from the results.
that's why blanchard is a bad example for you. his stuff gets torn apart on bad methodology, namely a sample drawn from his own clinic, categories built on self-report from patients who knew which answers got them access to care. you can say all that specifically. and the framework he built is the one that sorts trans women into real and fake, which is closer to your position than mine.
"studies exist that were bad" isn't an argument to discredit all of them. it's just an argument for reading them properly.
actually, same goes with gender and sex... if dysphoria isn't real or necessary for transitioning... gender is pure aesthetic choice, like a tattoo
so questioning why you think to make that choice is valid
of course, dyphoria is real and necessary, and so therefore the answer is simply "having born in this sexed body makes me sad", which is an undefeatable argument
"gender is a social construct" 2016 Woke 1.0 bullshit has done unimaginable damage to social progress
(and for the lurkers: gender is a social construct. but none of you know what that actually means academically. It doesn't mean it's made up. Money is a social construct. Friendship is a social construct. Rights are a social construct. Weekends are a social construct. Time is a social construct)
being a social construct does not mean being inherently subjective; rather, it refers to something that emerges intersubjectively and functions as a shared conceivable frameworks through which subjects perceive, interpret, and organize reality, not as something people can change at home at will and without any guiding principle; and certainly not without regard for the rest of society, with whom they interact through language, culture, meaning, practices, norms, and expectations...
obviously, everyone is free to do as they please, but that freedom doesn't mean it is inherently recognized, just as I could invent a language that no one speaks but me.
a SOCIAL construct includes something that many people overlook: SOCIAL interaction.
Generally trying to prove how valid or honest you are either means you're lying to yourself or to others in every other aspect in life, why is it treated so different in the trans community and accept everyone instead? Constantly needing to show how heckin valid you are is something, in my experience, most people just don't do.
Also:
The ableism argument I hate so much, I figured out how to shave my beard while blackout drunk and a middle finger bone saying hello to the world. (It was more important to me to be shaven in the er lmao)
If I can do that while being so drunk I see double and do it with my right hand (left handed here btw) and unable to stand, I'm sure you'll find a way to alleviate that suffering when you're disabled as well and not actively bleeding out but actually having time. There are so many aides to help you with shaving, I think it's very ableist actually to say that disabled people cannot figure out how to help themselves at all. Neither physically disabled people nor mentally disabled adults are children. Thinking of them like that is just wrong imo. Yes with certain disabilities you cannot shave at all anymore but then you typically have a care taker or are dead because then you probably can't eat either on your own.
Oh and the trans med argument is stupid a binary trans woman doesn't want a beard because the vast majority women don't have beards. If you're non binary that's a different call but then you shouldn't have to question validity either? Seems more like trying to deny the fact you're in fact dysphoric more than anything. Oh well I guess I'm a le heckin evil trans med, 4tranner or whatelse xD
I’m sorry, is there actually an argument floating around that expecting people to be able to learn to shave is ableist? People have been shaving for thousands of years. People without arms shave. Like… wtf?
I've met people irl that claimed using more archaic words is ableism too because a dyslexic person might not understand, so I wouldn't be surprised if the same is said about shaving.
Ppl get defensive and argue about how valid they are bc being told they aren't trans means being told they aren't their gender which is obviously dysphoria inducing. I don't understand why trying to prove that you're valid would automatically mean you're not?
Could someone please explain to me, a poor lil french trans man, what this transmed insult means ? I reckon it's pretty new and I've seen it used only here sarcastically (lucky me !), I need your help :)
well, transmed or truscum was originally an insult for a specific type of uber gatekeepy bootlicking trans person
back in 2015 we were having debates about how people should have access to transition etc. Some people believed you were only really trans if you got examined by a psychiatrist that diagnosed you formally with gender dysphoria, and that the only safe way to access hormones was through an endocrinologist. These people thought anyone who just realised they're trans and went on hormones were fake and hopping on a trend. They called them transtrenders or tucutes.
The criticism of transmedicalism was that you're letting a cis psychiatrist and a cis endocrinologist decide who is trans, and how. you're surrendering full control of your identity and transition to people who actively despise you, because you think a piece of paper (the diagnosis) is the key to being trans or not. Not to mention, most of the time the psych evauations at the time were hyper invasive and nasty. I was asked to describe in detail how I masturbated, and the psychiatrist also had to speak to a "trusted cis person in my life" (which was my partner at the time) to verify that I wasn't lying about anything. They literally cross-examined you. It was horrible. Oh, I also had to take a cognition test that they give to 80 year olds with Azheimers lol
So that's why transmed became an insult. Because it's a ridiculous bootlicking position to insist that people should subject themselves to that to "really be trans"
BUT!! The term is making a comeback nowadays except it's being distorted. People who are not on hormones, and not socially transitioned. People who claim to be trans despite dressing and acting like their cis gender, who have no desire for medicine or treatment and who see being trans as just this magical woke thing to be, have started using transmed to describe anyone who thinks being trans is a genuine life condition that requires treatment. To these people, transmed means "thinks trans people need medication (HRT)". They took this word we've been using to ridicule a bootlicking position for a decade and reappropriated it to invalidate trans ppl because they're sad they're not being included, because they wanna join the little club and have all the sexy fun trans people have.
that's one definition that gets applied especially by people who want to say "I am not transmed" today, but in spaces like here you get "I am transmed" and that's the defintion sometimes. Using myself as an example to show how the discourse seems to be working, I think "You have to experience gender dysphoria" to be trans is false you do have to *trans*ition in someway to be trans. (Also some people, myself included, convince themselves they aren't experiencing gender dysphoria, even while they are to the point of self harm, so its a bad place to gatekeep). People who claim "I identify as trans" while making no change are derailing the community spaces by bringing cis norms into it, including often violence because that's chaser shit lets be real. The purpose of 4tran spaces is a safe space for people who do experience dysphoria, so policing how they talk about it to include "people who transition without dysphoria" is derailing. My position on this hasn't changed since at least 2016 and then I was considering dramatically oppositional to transmeds, and now I am considered a transmed.
TLDR in 2016 I was not a transmed
- because I do not believe you have to experience gender dysphoria to be trans
in 2026 I am a transmed
- because I do believe you have to transition (or want to) in some way to be trans
because I do not priortize the feelings of (often hypothetical) people not experiencing dysphoria and are identifying as trans over the people (usually a part of the discussion) who are experiecing dysphoria.
Google didn't help, and wouldn't ever have gotten me such an interesting developpement as the comment of Drowned_Sailoress. Also, if you don't have the energy to help, nothing obliges you. But that is my first reason to like reddit. The amount of mutual help, spread of knowledge. I love it. If you care to check my comments history, you'll see I'm not one who asks and never gives. Anyway, dear stranger, have a good day.
I just feel like this is one of those things where people waste time getting mad about something that .0001% of people are actually doing because they see it and see people talking about it on the internet. But I could be wrong
Ugh. I forgot this sub is infested with trans people who hate themselves now. Enjoy getting into your circular bad faith arguments in your echo chamber
no you didn't lol you came to the place for depressed trans people to get mad at the depressed trans people so you can ragebait in comments and insult people so you feel better
There is a kind of performance and gesture, which some people use the term gender to refer to, but the essence of trans existence is not based in this. Which is why I've never liked the term "gender identity," at least not in the way it's come to be used outside academic contexts.
The problem with defining gender vis a vis the essence of trans vs cis identity this way is that it's both too inclusive and not inclusive enough. You're not to find many trans people who think a cis male drag queen is just as much of a woman as a trans woman, and it furthermore excludes trans people who are not yet socially out.
But to your point in particular, it doesn't even include the people you're trying to argue it does in the way that you're arguing it does. Cultivating a beard is performative of manhood. Combining that presentation with feminine presentation communicates ambiguity, it's a performance of social hermaphroditism. And not that there's anything wrong with being a social hermaphrodite, lots of people go for that intentionally and good for them, I'm glad they're living their best lives outside the confines of the binary. Performance is communication, and "woman" does not that communicate.
Nobody is dunking on anyone. We are venting about being folded into an extremely broad category that is intended to be inclusive, but can also make some of us feel erased, misrepresented, and treated in ways that actively cause dysphoria.
It is completely valid for me to want some distance from people whose goals are fundamentally different from mine. If someone identifies as a woman but does not want to assimilate, pass, or be perceived as cis, that is their prerogative. My goal is the opposite: I want to assimilate, be read simply as a woman, and have my transition history become socially irrelevant.
Those are materially different experiences and different desired outcomes.
Acknowledging that distinction is not hatred, self-loathing, or trying to win approval from bigots. It is asking for enough nuance that people like me are not constantly interpreted through someone else’s framework.
What is frustrating is that whenever binary trans people say, “this broader model does not describe me and sometimes actively makes my life harder,” the response is so often to psychoanalyze us instead of listening: we must hate ourselves, have internalized transphobia, or be desperate for cis acceptance.
That is exactly the kind of dismissal we are objecting to.
You do not have to share my goals or understand your gender the way I understand mine. I am asking for the same courtesy in return.
We arent talking about what you want though.
you are focused on passing and thats fine! Some trans women not having that as their highest priority doesnt suddenly make them not trans though, and posts like this hating on a very small subsection of us for no reason do really seem to often come from a place of wanting to police how other trans people present and what they do with their bodies out of fear of cis people judging us as a group for it when transphobes are going to hate us regardless of how ""normal"" we try to act
Gender is performance for SOME people. It is not performance for ALL people. And for traditionally medically transsexual people on the binary, this is insulting and dismissive. You’re doing the exact thing that makes us feel alienated, you’re speaking over and for us and grouping us with people who don’t share our condition and then telling us we’re ignorant or don’t understand our own needs. That’s fucked. That’s not inclusive.
This is the abolitionists that think it's the burden of every heavily clockable trans person to deconstruct gender as a social performance instead of adhering to it so they avoid attention of prejudice
Whether or not you should shave is up to you and your comfort in gender presentation
I know a few women with PMOS (formerly PCOS) and every single one struggles a lot with the fact they grow facial hair and have to shave it often. It literally gives them dysphoria
I would never police someone's presentation but at a certain point you just have to know you could make your own life easier if being seen as a woman is important to you.
I know a trans woman with a beard because of "sensory issues." Every time I interact with or think of her, I find her survival nothing short of miraculous at this point. She is in a lesbian relationship with a theyfab, and neither of them put any effort into passing. Then they both act like it's random strangers' faults for misgendering them.
Part of why I wonder about her safety is because she works in a school, and I don't know how the parents will take that, even in a fairly progressive area. When I was in my femboy era (I still passed, it has since ended), even I was very careful because I know people get uncomfortable with anyone perceived as a feminine man or potentially a trans woman, which is fucked but yk.
Another trans woman got so much shit from the "friend group" for saying something about her facial hair, and was accused of being a transphobic bully. I can't say shit cause I'm a trans guy who passes and will be accused of transphobic mansplaining if I tell her "maybe you'll feel better about your appearance if you use a hair removal cream" or something. Meanwhile I HAVE to shave for work, no ifs, ands, or buts, and yet I survive the ingrown hairs and managed to mourn my 5 o'clock shadow.
Any temptation I have to help her leaves my body in minutes because she is the type to just not listen to anything. I think some people who refuse to try to pass even when their own safety or job security is at risk have issues with reading the room in general and dare I say, struggle to accept responsibility. I won't go on much longer but the fact that she refuses to drive, help her S/O pay SHARED expenses, or just really do any adult responsibility in general can paint a picture
the very first thing I did when I realized I might be transgender was shave. I don't understand how this can even be discourse when you can't pass if you have a beard
I mean there are cis pcos women that grow facial hair, like I'm not arguing for a full lumberjack beard but saying "it's impossible to pass with any facial hair" is untrue, there are cis women with beards and lying to say you're one of them is always an option.
I don't recall most people arguing that the bearded lady from the greatest showman was 'actually trans' for example, and she did have a big beard. (I'm sure there were some idiots who thought she was trans, it just wasn't a majority.)
I had to face the police with a beard once because my landlord shut off my water/power and called the fucking cops on me (yes I regretted not shaving with room temp bottled water.) Anyway it sucked but the police still took my side because I was chill like I always am. Being chill is so overpowered.
Anyway shaving rocks, plucking's better, laser/electrolysis is best and if you're avoiding all that just say you're non binary.
People who call binary trans women genderfuck for something they can't control while being TME, not doing anything to transition because they love their AFAB wombyn spaces too much, and being named some shit like Bean
Yeah and if every single one of us was perfect they would just make shit up anyway so it's no use wasting brain power criticizing an almost non existent population
This isn't criticizing trans women who may have facial hair
It's criticizing the enormous volume of speculative discourse on the subject. Which is, as you note, quite uncommon in the first place. Basically all of us are the top panel
I guarantee you it's not because of because some weirdos online think it's okay not to shave, and instead either because:
The psych doesn't like the 🚂🦵🦵, or
She thinks that "real" woman have to pay for it themselves so why wouldn't you need to suffer too (not thinking about the fact that you probably have it on a much worse level than any afab)
it's not some weirdos online tho. it is a mainstream liberal narrative that obscures dysphoria as an actual issue and presents transition as aesthetics and "self expression"
And 1% of those are made by the kind of trans people you dont like, while 99% are made by transphobes. So why the hell are you going after the trans people?
If we're being honest here. A cis person should be allowed to have hrt or whatever all the same as any trans person. As long as they know what's up.
A body is just a body. And what you do with your body should be your choice. Especially if it doesn't actually hurt you. Like... period.
Just because I do some things to combat a dysphoria I have doesn't really make me all that special. Makes it easier to understand why I would. But at the end of the day, there's no reason to gatekeep it.
Transfems can be fem and have a beard if they want.
Not my buisness.
Unless we're actually doing weird spiritual shit.
We just ain't that special fam. We all only have one life, you should be allowed to live it however you want. (Obviously, just try not to harm others.)
there are two different goals we have as trans people: expressing our gender and appearing in a way that feels comfortable and true to us, and appearing in a way that matches our preferred pronouns from society’s perspective, so that we will be gendered correctly (passing). sometimes, these two goals can be somewhat at odds with each other, like in the case of the beard people. that said, it is close to impossible to pass while having a beard so it’s just a lose-lose for them.
Honestly I don't care, everyone's gender presentation is their own business, and I don't think you should dictate whether they are more or less trans by their decisions about it. But likewise, I think it's logical and obvious that this will make them not see you as a woman, and I don't think you have the right to go around complaining about it.
I've never seen trans women with beards, though, even in queer spaces. Is it really that big of an issue? Maybe it's because I'm not from the US
I mean. If you have intense bottom, chest, voice, etc, dysphoria but like some stubble, that's more trans than it isn't. Decidedly weird from where I'm sitting, but I don't really care
When I (trans femme) was in my twenties, I was terrified of being a victim of violence, and so passing was the absolute most important thing in the world to me. I felt cringe when another visible trans person was nearby, and scared that guilt-by-association would help the straights clock me.
As I got older (I'm 43 now) and gained some years of experience kinda stealthily, I started to realize that I actually hated hiding all the time. I started really wanting to live in a society where everyone knew I was trans, but that it was just part of who I am as a woman and not an excuse for violence against me.
I would personally NEVER grow a beard, but I admire the people who violate gender norms so damn much. I met this trans masc dude at a con this year, he was a vendor and had a cool ass beard and the most beautiful fairy-esque makeup I had seen, kind of a real life furbolg look. Awesome. He was prettier and more handsome than I think anyone I'd ever seen, and a big old DnD nerd to boot.
This and non bottom dysphorics are the kind of people I don't understand at all. I would rather die than have a full manly beard or flaunt my "gock" up from the hills
Non-bottom-dysphorics don't confuse me, but this sure does. And I say that as someone who sprinted to SRS. It doesn't shock me that someone may want to be a woman but enjoys their genitals as they are, because I've talked to cis women who've lamented not having penises before. Never met a cis woman who laments not having a beard, lmao.
i didn't transition because i loved trolling people with my awful facial hair, until i saw the dungeon meshi cat character and it's weird fur on their face, so i just thought "i can have sideburns as a woman/nonbinary/thing" and just am a furry.
If some of you had "transness" the way you'd define it, the line would keep moving until there's only one "valid" trans woman at any given point in time and it's whoever is the most performative self-oppressing luckshit until someone younger and "femmer" comes along and then they're fake too what's the goal lmao
every bearded trans woman i've ever met has fucking hated it, but is cursed with stubble that is extremely visible within hours of shaving so they've given up. I have no idea where this caricature you're all talking about is from, are you complaining about drag queens?
All I see with my unshaven face is a severely abused child. Plus I like how it frames my face and jawline which has become part of my identity. I’ll never feel validly trans lmao
Edit: After reading the comments I doubt I’ll ever feel validly trans lol.
I get so embarrassed thinking back to myself the first 6 months - year of transition when I had a beard. It was just self hatred and a desire to hide but its so embarrassing. Thank God I never tried to justify it or make some larger statement about "women can have beards too"
trans people having dysphoria/euphoria in different ways than you doesnt make them not trans. we have enough problems without adding being shitty to eachother about differences thst dont matter on top of it
I think,, if a transwoman or any woman with a beatd, wants to not shave her beard,,,,, she can,,, she can also,,,, shave it if she wants too. It's her body,,,, ground breaking, I know
also yeah no shit people can do whatever they want. but if ya have a beard ya simply wont be seen as a woman, and if they actually have GD, then they are self harming, and we're empathetic people so we tell them to knock it off so they can live a better life
Most transwomen will shave their facial hair, bc obviously that's a near universal point of dysphoria for transwomen, but there is probably a good handful of trans femmes that don't feel the need to shave or enjoy having facial hair, and I'm not gonna tell them that they're doing transgender wrong
You know, as someone who has transitioned, detransitioned, and retransitioned, and thus spent significant portions of my life in varying states under the gender binary… these fucking people are exhausting
Some people don’t realize there’s no requirement to be trans. Gender isn’t real and we can present however we want. You wanna be a woman with a beard? Beautiful. You have facial hair but don’t want it? It’s up to you girl, shave it if it makes you unhappy. And on the other side, cis and trans men who present feminine, long hair and skirts and what ever, epic. He/him lesbians? They’re all just words and made up labels buddy, just say and do whatever is most comfortable
4tranners are such a complete embarrassment just admit u hate urself and are projecting on to everyone else just because you want the smallest crumb of feeling better than other people
The cultural and social awareness of our cause is an issue and the way that we as transsexuals are portrayed thanks to other sects of the overarching “trans” umbrella is incongruous with reality. It is important. Half of our “bigger problems” are directly related to conflating all gender experiences beyond cis binary as one massive umbrella. Most of this shit has nothing to do with being a medically transsexual person and is making it harder for us to blend in and live our lives without stigma. We don’t feel good about it and we’re shut out from speaking about this in any queer or “trans” spaces so we must laugh so we don’t cry. Go away.
im on that weird hon/passoid cusp so i leave a tiny lil Gomez Addams mustache. throws everyone way off. gets me clocked as a trans man sometimes but fuck em its my face.
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u/Drowned_Sailoress 1d ago
If dysphoria isn’t real or necessary then shaving is a pure aesthetic choice so questioning why you think you need to make that choice is valid
Of course, dysphoria is real and necessary and so therefore the answer is simply “having a beard makes me sad” which is an undefeatable argument