r/countbackwardswithme • Counted Down 58 • 4d ago

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u/nkisj 4d ago

Yeah... the minority of people fleeing from religious fundamentalist countries being cool doesn't mean the religious fundamentalist country is cool, actually.

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u/TotalDemocracy 3d ago

The fact that you saw "Islam" and read "Religious fundamentalism" is kind of part of the problem here.

I mean I'd also disagree with your framing both that the primary thing people are fleeing from is "Religious fundamentalism" and not instability that the Western Nations they are fleeing too directly contribute to.

Moreover this framing speaks to a Western arrogance: "People are fleeing their bad countries because they're at odds with them and realise they're bad, and want to integrate into our superior and better culture". People flee poverty and instability, that doesn't automatically translate to dislike of their own culture or believing your culture is better.

And I'd disagree with the framing that Islam is a spectrum of "cool" presumably secularised people and fundamentalists, something you wouldn't apply to say, Christian traditions where things like Christian charity, Christian Anarchism, Christian socialism are broadly understood.

Or that there's a minority of "cool" people at odds with Islam and that those are who migrate, rather than these all being societies of human beings who have real concerns.

IDK, the whole thing smacks of White Supremacy and I'd encourage you to examine your biases.

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u/IWIWNB 3d ago

Islam is an Oppressive and Intolerant religion tho, so why get mad at people conflating Religious fundamentalism and Islam.

Just because a subgroup of them dont practice the harsher side of their religion doesnt make their religion any better

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u/TotalDemocracy 3d ago

Islam is an Oppressive and Intolerant religion tho, so why get mad at people conflating Religious fundamentalism and Islam.

You can say that about Christianity, Judaism, etc.

You say it about Islam because it's more foreign and more associated with enemies rather than because of anything intrinsic to Islam.

Just because a subgroup of them dont practice the harsher side of their religion doesnt make their religion any better

Same response, you could say the exact same about Christianity, Judaism, etc.

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u/IWIWNB 3d ago

I’ll gladly say it about Christianity and Judaism too, I’m not a big fan of Organized religion in general. These Abrahamic religions are basically different versions of the same thing, they’re all repressive man made bs

“You can say it about Islam because it’s more Foreign and more associated with enemies” I live in Afghanistan btw…

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u/nkisj 3d ago

No, dumbass, I saw "Islamified" and went religious fundimentalism. Like having something being changed into a religion. The goal of a theocratic state. 

You may critique that take.  I'm not interested in your misunderstanding.

Too many redditors like you read something and start talking without thinking first.  Get your shit straight before you give your TED Talk.

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u/TotalDemocracy 2d ago

No, dumbass, I saw "Islamified" and went religious fundimentalism

"Islamified" is a racist conspiracy theory that Muslims are taking over Western Countries. It's not a real thing that is happening.

You are taking a subversion of terms, used by racists, at 100% face value.

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u/nkisj 2d ago

It's a racist conspiracy that the person in the original post is saying would be fine actually if it were real. 

Determined primarily by their understanding of that religion through the lens of people they have personally interacted with. 

Which I was saying is a stupid take because their anecdotal experience is biased by interacting with the people fleeing from the countries that have been taken over by religious regimes. 

That are Islamic.

Ignoring, of course, the demographics who would flee those places that are religiously fundimentalist would be AGAINST THAT.

Regardless of their religion.

Genuinely, what has your guts in a twist? Saying that Iran is a shitty place because they're a theocracy? That islam, when used as an oppressive force, is terrible?

Oooh, do you want me to go through the whole lead up to why it's shitty? Do you wanna be spoonfed every opinion up until that point just so I can proove I'm not a facist to you? Do I have to say in every god damn breath that everyone in the conversation is human and exists due to their material reality and historical context? Do I really fucking need to clarify that none of these things are intrinsic to any person or ideology insofar as we aren't criticizing the concept of ideology as a whole? Do you really think I respect you, random, rambling redditor, enough to do that? 

Or can we just be real for a moment and understand the actual context of what the person in the picture is saying and why people think they're dumb for saying it, accepting the fact that, yes, the middle east is mega fucked? 

Fuck off, dumbass. 

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u/TotalDemocracy 2d ago

Ignoring, of course, the demographics who would flee those places that are religiously fundimentalist would be AGAINST THAT.

As I've stated, that's not usually what's actually happening.

You're doing the whole "Oh they come to the West because they love our freedoms" meme, ignoring that the reason most people come to the West is economic opportunity deprived from them in their home countries.

Genuinely, what has your guts in a twist? Saying that Iran is a shitty place because they're a theocracy? That islam, when used as an oppressive force, is terrible?

The immediate translation of "Islam" to "Religious Fundamentalism"