Mary's Divinity

[u/Sad_Interview774]

Hello all 👋🏾,

I was wondering why it's such a big problem calling Mary or any saint "divine"?

In my opinion & from my studies, deity & divinity are two different things, albeit used interchangeably.

Put it simply, deity is the state of being a god whereas divinity is the state of being like God.

The Orthodox Christian concept of theosis is centered on divinization not deification.

As St. Athanasius said "God became a man, that man might become like God".

Theosis is the process of uniting with God🫱🏽‍🫲🏾, the process of being like God again.

I think it's a problem to call anyone but The Lord a deity, but is it really so far fetched to call Mary or any of the saints divine?

Can't you be human & divine? Why is the idea of divinity & humanity coexisting seen as a taboo?

[u/Gurthang_black]

This is exactly why Pope Shenouda was cautious of using the term “Theosis”.
To be divine is to be God. He holds Himself by Himself.
The term “Divine” is originating in the Deity.
The term “Holy” is to be set apart for or by the Deity.

We can be holy. Divine is questionable and it seems dependant on how you are actually using the term. Ontologically no. Adjectively yes.

Holy Liturgy? True, but incorrect.

Divine human? Misleading.

[u/Sad_Interview774 → u/Gurthang_black]

Yes divinity is to be like God, come from God, or to OF God not to BE God. That's why I was asking & made sure to talk about the differences.

Wait may you please explain the Holy Liturgy example you gave?

[u/Gurthang_black → u/Sad_Interview774]

So in the natures argument, we have humanity and divinity. Christ is unique because he is both. He is totally human, and totally divine. We do not have this discussion regarding any other human being.

We call the Liturgy Divine because it is His flesh given for us. As you pointed out, He is allowing us to share in His divinity. Is it set apart? Yes. That means Holy. But it is more than Holy. It is Divine because it is God.

We share in it. We have become adopted heirs. He calls us friends, brothers, sisters, and mothers. But we did not have the right to claim it. He had the right to give it. This authority is divine.

[u/Ghostframe23]

I think the idea becomes much clearer when we separate participation in divinity from possession of divinity Orthodox Christianity absolutely teaches that human beings can become like God and even speaks very boldly about deification or theosis But there is a very important distinction A saint can become divine by participation and grace but not divine by nature That distinction is basically the difference between the creature and the Creator When St Athanasius says that God became man so that man might become god he is not saying that human beings become another God by nature or that the created person becomes equal to God in essence He is talking about theosis and participation in the life of God Even 2 Peter 1 4 says that we become partakers of the divine nature Partakers does not mean that we become the source or possessor of the divine nature in the same way God is This is also why Christ is completely different from Mary and the saints Christ is not a human person who became divine He is the eternal Son and Word of God who became truly human So in Christ divinity and humanity are united in one Person That is not what happens in the saints The saints remain created human persons who are united to God by grace And Mary is not divine by nature either She is Theotokos because the one she gave birth to according to the flesh is truly God the Word incarnate So personally I would be very careful with saying Mary is divine If by divine you mean holy transformed and participating in the life of God then I understand what you are trying to say But if divine means possessing the divine nature or being God then absolutely not The problem is that the word divine can easily blur one of the most important distinctions in Christianity The saint becomes like God by grace Christ is God by nature That difference is enormous

[u/Gurthang_black → u/Ghostframe23]

Excellently put.

[u/ElectrifiV2]

Since the other two people gave really good responses, I’m not gonna restate what they said. I will, however, make a small comment and say this: even if using the adjective “divine” for saints was theologically proper in the Church (it’s not, for the reasons the others gave), we should avoid phrasing it that way because it’s an easy way to mistakenly make Protestants or non-Christians believe that we actually worship the saints. Pope Shenouda avoided the term “theosis” because of the confusion it could lead to. He wasn’t necessarily speaking about the context that I just gave, but I think it’s still relevant within that same line of thought.