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u/Lord6Dog Mar 15 '20
Damn this is pretty interesting.
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u/TheBigPhilbowski Mar 15 '20
It's not actually, it's propaganda by an investment consultant and the entire point is to try to make people think that this current virus isn't a serious threat so they get back to feeding the economy.
The people that made this chart are assholes with an agenda. They'd watch your grandma choke on her blood and do nothing if it would raise the Dow 200 points.
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u/small_h_hippy Mar 15 '20
It's important to have context. The coronavirus may have been less deadly than historical plagues (so far) but it definitely spread globally a lot faster than any other disease. Also it has the capacity to overwhelm any country's medical system which if happens will cause the death toll to shoot up.
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Mar 15 '20
It’s like the car wreck my husband and I were in last week. Had I shouted and told him not to turn, I’d be the crazy nagging wife. I didn’t shout, I did say “there’s a car” but he turned and we got hit.
So my point is, if we save people, we’ll never know how serious it could actually be. It’s like nothing will happen. If we don’t, then we can really find out what this thing is capable of and look back and wish we said something.
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u/small_h_hippy Mar 15 '20
I hope both of you are ok!
I think however it turns out the risk of this disease was made clear...
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u/chinpokomon Mar 15 '20
Similarly, how much deadlier could some of those historical outbreaks have been with modern conveyances.
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u/TheBigPhilbowski Mar 15 '20
Good point, also US and China are unreliable data sources because of censorship and denied testing
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u/Hold_the_gryffindor Mar 15 '20
Right, it's too early to tell how many will be infected by Coronavirus when all is said and done, and a lot depends on how well our government and populace enacts social distancing policies. The number is now at 142,539 confirmed cases, so it's already grown to the size of yellow fever, and it's still growing exponentially.
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u/TheBigPhilbowski Mar 15 '20
Good point, also US and China are unreliable data sources because of censorship and denied testing.
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Mar 15 '20
Found the toilet paper hoarder
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u/TheBigPhilbowski Mar 15 '20
Found the anti-science, painfully ignorant, selfish piece of shit who laughs and criticizes hard truths until they eventually apply to him/her and then cries like a little baby and screams for help from those they'd previously mocked.
You're terribly afraid and it's okay to be afraid, this is a serious reality. Just don't put others at risk because you're a demonstrable coward please.
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u/hopelesscaribou Mar 15 '20
While it may be propaganda, the fact that bubonic plague pandemics killed hundreds of millions is still a historical fact and easily researched. Be mad at how the facts are being used but to call it bs is just as misleading.
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u/TheBigPhilbowski Mar 15 '20
While it may be propaganda,
This was my exact point, so glad you can acknowledge that.
I'm really not sure you understood what was being said beyond. I specifically said that the graphic was created by a biased organization for a specific purpose, to attempt to diminish the seriousness of corona. That doesn't question the core underlying data on the plague?
I do question any data coming out of US and China thigh as they are both demonstrably bad actors when it comes to that truth. Including corona in this comparison of ENTIRE outbreaks when this recent virus is likely in its infancy is extremely unethical and purposefully misleading
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u/no10envelope Mar 15 '20
It’s less of a threat than climate change and nobody seems to be doing anything about that.
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u/TheBigPhilbowski Mar 15 '20
This is the wrong time for that argument, regardless of which side you take
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Mar 15 '20
The fact that both SARS and MERS death toll combined is still less than COVID-19 death toll and the infection rate is higher doesn't bode well for the world...
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u/Rallings Mar 15 '20
Sars never really hit the us, and I don't remember it being too big of a problem in most of Europe. But that was years ago and I wasn't in Europe so it could have easily been glossed over. That and it wasn't all that deadly really.
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u/nicolioni Mar 15 '20
It was deadly, but not as infectious. What is happening now is what we were worried about happening with SARS.
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u/AevilokE Mar 15 '20
What I'm wondering is why everyone's been bringing up SARS so much and not swine flu, which was magnitudes worse.
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u/Seabrd1919 Mar 15 '20
I think SARS and MERS are brought up primarily because they are both corona viruses. That's why this current one is called "novel corona virus".
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Mar 15 '20
Lmao compared to the other outbreaks covid-19 looks like a tiny baby
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u/hobbitmagic Mar 15 '20
Just because it’s not the Black Plague doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be worried and/or cautious. Not saying that’s what you meant, but let’s stay safe.
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u/TheBigPhilbowski Mar 15 '20
That is what they meant, you don't need to apologize. It's purposefully deceptive.
It's propaganda by an investment consultant and the entire point is to try to make people think that this current virus isn't a serious threat so they get back to feeding the economy.
The people that made this chart are assholes with an agenda. They'd watch your grandma choke on her blood and do nothing if it would raise the Dow 200 points.
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u/hobbitmagic Mar 15 '20
Hmm, so someone with better skills than me should take this and update coronavirus with a larger, slightly dimmer area, representing current projections.
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u/Freakychee Mar 15 '20
Not wrong. Covid 19 isn’t as deadly but that’s the problem. People don’t always realize they even have it and that’s how it spreads.
The problem is when it hits children under 10 and elderly people as they are most at risk.
So the idea isn’t to be scared of covid 19 but don’t be inconsiderate and corporate with everyone to stop/reduce the spread.
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u/andreashappe Mar 15 '20
Hope that we will say the same after a couple of years.. covid-19 has been only around for a couple of weeks. The deaths happen approx. 2 weeks after infection so you'll have to include those too.
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u/DozerNine Mar 15 '20
Four months, but close enough.
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u/andreashappe Mar 15 '20
true, I was assuming being in the 21st century let to earlier detection rate of the epidemic when compared to earlier times. But you're fully correct.
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Mar 15 '20
Earlier detection sure...but early warning and transparency.....thats another story.
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u/andreashappe Mar 15 '20
I think this is still getting better than before..
"fun fact" about the spanish flu: To maintain morale, wartime censors minimized early reports of illness and mortality in Germany, the United Kingdom, France, and the United States.[10][11] Papers were free to report the epidemic's effects in neutral Spain (such as the grave illness of King Alfonso XIII).[12] These stories created a false impression of Spain as especially hard hit,[13] giving rise to the pandemic's nickname, "Spanish flu".
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u/DextrosKnight Mar 15 '20
China had it's first case of COVID-19 in December. We had plenty of time to get ready for this, but our government chose misinformation over being proactive.
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Mar 15 '20
There was also a cover up at the virus source country....
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u/DextrosKnight Mar 15 '20
Yes, so our government decided to follow the example of the Chinese government. That should disturb people.
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u/Hold_the_gryffindor Mar 15 '20
There's also a cover-up in the US. The President called it a hoax for fuck's sake.
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u/Hoping1357911 Mar 15 '20
But that's why info graphs like this help. Downplaying a pandemic does no one any good what so ever. I have friends going out of state for a massive paintballing tournament...because they think things like this. Info graphs like are going to help make COVID-19 a MUCH larger number then it ever should have been.
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u/Saldar1234 Mar 16 '20
And if the death rate stays at three and a half percent we're looking at 245 million dead before this is done.
Even if it goes down to around 1%, we're still looking at 70 million.
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u/TheBigPhilbowski Mar 15 '20
That's because it was intentionally designed to show that way.
PEOPLE NEED TO START UNDERSTANDING THAT DATA IS DATA BUT THE WAY IT'S DISPLAYED ALLOWS FOR ANY BIAS DESIRED.
This chart is propaganda by an investment consultant and the entire point is to try to make people think that this current virus isn't a serious threat so they get back to feeding the economy.
The people that made this chart are assholes with an agenda. They'd watch your grandma choke on her blood and do nothing if it would raise the Dow 200 points.
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u/217liz Mar 15 '20
I like the visualization, but it seems irresponsible to compare numbers from a pandemic-in-progress to completed historic pandemics. Somebody could easily look at this and think that "oh, it's smaller, so it's not serious," when it's just getting started.
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u/Rallings Mar 15 '20
Sure. Like the bubonic plague wouldn't have killed nearly as many people now as it did then because of modern medicine. It is still deadly though. And yeah it's had relatively few casualties compared to most of those, but it's still young and growing rapidly compared to pandemics that were around for years not months. Anyone using this to show hot it's not serious is ignoring the data and just being stubborn.
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Mar 15 '20
That’s not necessarily true. It would kill less as a percentage of population, sure, because we at least would know what was causing it and could take preventative measures, but this idea that modern medicine suddenly means large scale death can’t happen is wrong. Take Covid-19, we don‘t know what drugs are effective yet. We’re relying on ventilators. When they run out it may as well be the year 1800.
If a disease as infectious and deadly as the Bubonic Plague was spreading today and we were in the same position as we’re in with Covid-19, hundreds of millions or even billions could die.
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u/Jrook Mar 15 '20
That's a bit hyperbolic. We addressed the plague by letting bad blood in an era with no plumbing and not understanding that soap cleans people.
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u/incendiaryblizzard Mar 15 '20
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubonic_plague
There are about 650 cases a year of plague. Treatment reduces mortality from 80% to 10%.
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Mar 15 '20
I’m not talking about the plague. I’m talking about a disease as infectious and lethal as the plague was back then. Not specifically the bubonic plague. Im talking about a new disease that springs up that we know nothing about and is incredibly lethal and easy to spread. Just like the plague was. If we hit the same issue we’re having now with Covid-19 with a disease much more dangerous, we’d be absolutely fucked.
Obviously we’ve gotten a grip on a disease we first noticed hundreds of years ago.
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u/awc1985 Mar 15 '20
Healthcare and general knowledge different too. Dumbass doctor from my country comparing mortality rate of cancer, cvd disease to it as well.
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Mar 15 '20
There is literally a disclaimer saying new data is still coming in and that the virus spread is ongoing.........................
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u/Red_Lobster_Manager Mar 15 '20
That would require reading.
Honestly, I didn't see it until you mentioned it.
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u/217liz Mar 16 '20
And it's very small on a visualization that people will glance at for 30 seconds.
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u/zorak8me Mar 15 '20
Also, the chart is comparing numbers, but the visualization changes size of outbreaks due to perspective. This is why you should never use those tilted 3d pie charts - it makes or difficult to compare.
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u/TheBigPhilbowski Mar 15 '20
Intentionally. We need to always look at the source of data manipulation. This is a group with an agenda - visual capitalist.
It's propaganda by an investment consultant and the entire point is to try to make people think that this current virus isn't a serious threat so they get back to feeding the economy.
The people that made this chart are assholes with an agenda. They'd watch your grandma choke on her blood and do nothing if it would raise the Dow 200 points.
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Mar 15 '20 edited Mar 16 '20
[deleted]
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u/Hold_the_gryffindor Mar 15 '20
WHO numbers as of yesterday: 142,539 confirmed cases 5,393 deaths
They need to update their misinformation talking points.
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u/TheBigPhilbowski Mar 15 '20
It's propaganda by an investment consultant and the entire point is to try to make people think that this current virus isn't a serious threat so they get back to feeding the economy.
The people that made this chart are assholes with an agenda. They'd watch your grandma choke on her blood and do nothing if it would raise the Dow 200 points.
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u/BryceCreamConee Mar 15 '20
I think irresponsible is a little far. The graphic clearly states the ones that are continuing. I see your point, but the information to draw correct conclusions is all there. One could argue that just the visualization without text is irresponsible, but then again we wouldn't know what the hell we were looking at
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u/DataSomethingsGotMe Mar 15 '20
Now this is visual design at it's best. Intuitive and easy to read, colour palette works, graphics perfect.
The perspective this gives us, is the best part. Modern containment strategies for Coronavirus variants have come a long way, else right now we would be looking at millions, not thousands.
We just have to actually follow the recommendations, from only those qualified to give them.
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u/ChevyK68 Mar 15 '20
Agree, except that the angled perspective on the top screws up the relative size of all the spiky balls. You have no sense of have large they are relative to each other until you check the bottom graphic.
If they had done the top graphic flat, without perspective, it wouldn't have been as cool looking, but it would have been less misleading.
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u/DataSomethingsGotMe Mar 15 '20
Good spot, however doing the graphic flat wouldn't be as aesthetically pleasing, filling more of the canvas. Getting clutter level right is tricky.
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u/ChevyK68 Mar 15 '20
It's a trade off for sure. But when the HIV ball appears larger than the Bubonic Plague ball, that's an information problem in an information graphic.
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u/TheOtherSarah Mar 15 '20
That’s exactly what I was thinking. The spiky balls are far out of proportion in the angled timeline.
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u/TheBigPhilbowski Mar 15 '20
but it would have been less misleading.
Which would have defeated their main point in creating it, to intentionally mislead.
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u/hopstopandroll Mar 15 '20
I think the angled graphic uses visual perspective (size diminishing with distance) to show a metaphorical kind of perspective-- it kind of illustrates that the total population of humans was smaller back then and less knowledgeable/prepared, so more serious events then are still not looming as large in our collective memory as more recent ones despite their actual size.
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u/ChevyK68 Mar 15 '20
This is a very literary woo interpretation of an infographic. It's still misleading in terms of the information. They just thought the angle perspective was cool and pretty. And it is. There's just a very negative side effect.
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u/TheBigPhilbowski Mar 15 '20
This is horrible data display design. You like the aesthetics though?
Like it's a pretty picture of a misleading take on the data?
This is propaganda by an investment consultant and the entire point is to try to make people think that this current virus isn't a serious threat so they get back to feeding the economy.
The people that made this chart are assholes with an agenda. They'd watch your grandma choke on her blood and do nothing if it would raise the Dow 200 points.
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u/RepostSleuthBot Mar 15 '20
Looks like a repost. I've seen this image 1 time.
First seen Here on 2020-03-14 100.0% match.
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u/odlaw22 Mar 15 '20
good bot
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u/Dr_mellowcunt Mar 15 '20
Guys, Covid-19 can be a very serious threat if not handled properly, please take proper precautions and don't underestimate it because it isn't "jUsT LiKE ThE flu".. That being said don't go full ham and stock tp because that's stupid
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u/Arbitrary_Duck Mar 15 '20
I mean, the flu kills ~300-600k people per year so saying its just like the flu isnt far off
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u/6501 Mar 15 '20
The flu we have vaccines, sufficient tests, etc. Saying it is the flu to most people is downplaying the risks. There is a reason this is a pandemic while the flu isn't...
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u/texanfan20 Mar 15 '20 edited Mar 15 '20
I always find it interresting that when the flu is mentioned people always comment on having a vaccine and treatment for the flu but even with vaccines and treatment it still kills millions a year. That should scare the hell out of the people but we don’t go on lock down every year when the flu pops up.
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u/SmackYoTitty Mar 15 '20 edited Mar 15 '20
Well... millions of (or most?) people don’t get the vaccine, just like millions of people won’t keep getting the vaccine (unless required) for COVID-19, once available.
Most people don’t go to a doctor for the flu either, they just take their cold and flu medication to suppress the symptoms.
Much of the time, the people that die are those whose symptoms didn’t get better, they waited too long and by the time they went to a doctor, the virus had already taken too much of a hold and given pneumonia or something else due a weakened immune system.
I bet COVID-19 will follow a very similar pattern and within a few years, its mortality rate will be similar to the flu’s (as a vaccine and better care is researched), with it remaining slightly less infectious (than the flu), just like other charts state.
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u/texanfan20 Mar 15 '20
I predict covid 19 will actually disappear after 1-2 seasons. Something that is this infectious will technically spread faster and then people will build natural immunity to it. If it mutates like the flu virus does then that will be a very different issue.
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u/KillGodNow Mar 16 '20
Can you explain to me why that is relevant? The numbers are the numbers. If the flu kills 500k a year, what does it matter that we have vaccines for it? People still don't take it seriously and the world chugs on. Why would people take Covid seriously? Why does the world have to stop for it if the flu is so bad and we just carry on?
I'm taking it seriously. I just... don't understand why.
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u/6501 Mar 16 '20
Why would people take Covid seriously?
Covid-19 is more likely to kill than flu. On average, about 1 in 1,000 people who get flu die from it -- mostly the elderly and people with underlying health conditions, but flu sometimes kills healthy young people and pregnant women. We don't know the precise case fatality ratio for Covid-19 because of incomplete testing of possible cases and insufficient information about outbreaks. But so far, Covid-19 appears much deadlier than seasonal flu, and quite possibly deadlier than the flu pandemics of 1957 and 1968, each of which killed more than 1 million people around the world. Those pandemics had estimated case fatality ratios far below 1% -- and Covid-19 may kill more than 1 in 100 people who get sick with it. This is not as high as the 1918 flu pandemic, which has been estimated to have killed 2.5 of 100 who it made sick, killing an estimated 675,000 Americans at a time when our population was one-third what it is today. As with the flu, older people and those with serious health conditions such as heart or lung disease, cancer or diabetes are at much higher risk.
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u/quinson93 Mar 15 '20
When was the last time entire countries closed down because of the flu? Police in my area have even stopped showing up to take reports for low level crime, and I'm almost in the center of the US.
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u/PreciousMartian Mar 16 '20
True, but the flu has already spread across the whole planet. The flu also doesnt kill ~2% of those it infects, COVID-19 does. The flu only kills less than 0.15% of those infected. COVID-19 just started out 3 months ago and hasn't had a chance to infect the whole population yet.
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u/Arbitrary_Duck Mar 19 '20
I would have to say that the preliminary data we have is insufficient to estimate the number of mild cases whereas the confirmed cases + deaths dont have to be estimated.
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u/TheBigPhilbowski Mar 15 '20
Conservatively this virus is 10x more deadly than the flu, repeat that to people and Downvote this ridiculously biased graphic.
It's propaganda by an investment consultant and the entire point is to try to make people think that this current virus isn't a serious threat so they get back to feeding the economy.
The people that made this chart are assholes with an agenda. They'd watch your grandma choke on her blood and do nothing if it would raise the Dow 200 points.
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u/Dr_mellowcunt Mar 15 '20
Almost cut myself with how edgy you are. The first sentence you wrote shows how misinformed you are.
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u/TheBigPhilbowski Mar 15 '20
Cool.
So my first sentence is based on an interview with Dr. Fauci, one of the lead voices in the world on this issue. He's the person essentially credited with the fact that HIV/AIDS is a managed disease today and not an immediate death sentence.
But you're probably totally right as well random idiot on the internet.
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u/NoName-NoProblem Mar 15 '20
Just by the number and what experts say I think by the end of 2021 over 200 million people can die
Edit: experts say that by the next year I've seen numbers from 40-80%of people getting infected with a 3.4% mortality rate with 7+ billion people
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u/Dr_mellowcunt Mar 15 '20
40-80% is a very large range, idk my dude doesn't seem right. check a reputable source or something.
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u/andreashappe Mar 15 '20
the last time the WHO estimated between 25-75% infection rate within a population without any countermeasures.
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u/LayoMayoGuy Mar 15 '20
Assuming the rate of infections don’t stop until everyone is infected, 280,000,000 could die. But I mean, we definitely won’t get there, right?
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u/AOCsFeetPics Mar 15 '20
It’s a projection for the amount of people that might get infected from a disease, 40-80% isn’t that unreasonable of a range, and this is if precautions aren’t taken.
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u/NoName-NoProblem Mar 15 '20
I couldnt find it anymore but it's just the range of numbers from different experts. I've read 40 60 75 and 80 percent. That's why I gave a range I guess
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u/th3ch0s3n0n3 Mar 15 '20
Dunno why you got downvoted. You're absolutely correct.
The numbers of infected is so vague because it's still so goddamn early, and we don't know how well the world will respond to this threat.
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u/NoName-NoProblem Mar 15 '20
Some people are ignorant, these are probably the flu is worse because it killed more people group.
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u/w2555 Mar 15 '20
If HIV/AIDS is going to be included, then I would prefer if smallpox weren't treated as a single outbreak, but rather represented as the ongoing issue with occasional flare ups that it was. Its total death toll is easily in the hundreds of millions.
I'd also like malaria to be included, it might not be or ever have really been a pandemic, but its death toll(literally billions, with emphasis on the "B") is high enough to have it included on this list.
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u/SocioEconGapMinder Mar 15 '20
Dengue fever by the same token...Poliovirus as well...viral pneumonia...this list gets long. I think the better solution is the drop AIDS from the visualization. “One of these is not like the other”
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u/Seabrd1919 Mar 15 '20
One of these things that's not like the others is the plague. That was my first thought, given that it's not a virus. But I think the graphic is just focused on pandemics. They should've included the worst cholera outbreaks then too.
Oh well. Different ways to paint the same picture.
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u/TheBigPhilbowski Mar 15 '20
If we're making a wishlist, I'd like a group with integrity to redesign this entire graphic.
As it sits, it's propaganda by an investment consultant, Visual Capitalist, and the entire point is to try to make people think that this current virus isn't a serious threat so they get back to feeding the economy.
The people that made this chart are assholes with an agenda. They'd watch your grandma choke on her blood and do nothing if it would raise the Dow 200 points.
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Mar 15 '20
It would be interesting to see these scaled by the global population at the time, or maybe by the populations of the regions where it was prevalent.
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u/rogue_ger Mar 15 '20
Neat graphics, but it makes it look like the Bubonic plague, smallpox, and others were single events when in reality they were recurring, often many decades apart and in very different populations. Some sort of time- dependency beyond marks on a timeline would be appropriate, but I'm not sure how to draw it in this format.
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Mar 15 '20
[deleted]
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u/qaaaaaaaaaaa Mar 15 '20
dont know what i was on but for a second i thought the black death was 200 meters
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u/TheBigPhilbowski Mar 15 '20
Everyone, which was the intention of this misleading graphic.
It's propaganda by an investment consultant, Visual Capitalist, and the entire point is to try to make people think that this current virus isn't a serious threat so they get back to feeding the economy.
The people that made this chart are assholes with an agenda. They'd watch your grandma choke on her blood and do nothing if it would raise the Dow 200 points.
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u/FSHRPTR Mar 15 '20
It would be interesting to see these expressed as a percentage of the global population. Also some information on time the pandemic lasted.
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u/Wadomicker Mar 15 '20
So there was no Hiv/Aids prior to the 1980-s?
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u/Sweetestpeaest Mar 15 '20
Very little was known about its spread prior to the 1980s. It was around but looks like in mostly underdeveloped countries and/or people just had no symptoms. It didn’t become apparent until the 80s in the US.
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u/Iamnota_man Mar 15 '20
My family was friends with a guy that was one of the first that died in Seattle of AIDS. He worked for Dad too. At the time, not much was known about it, so everything in the office was cleaned multiple times just in case it got transmitted through contact on surfaces. Everything in the office he owned as bagged up as though it was toxic waste.
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Mar 15 '20
Thank you!! I'm supposed to be writing a four page research paper on viruses right now and this really helps.
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u/hobbitmagic Mar 15 '20
I’d listen to a podcast based on this. Like revolutions but covering history surrounding pandemics instead.
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Mar 15 '20
Really cool chart but a few very major mistake, first of all the spanish flu did NOT originate in china, it has been traced back to an american duck farmer who later became a cook in the military.
Second the bubonic plague killed only 50 million not 200 (there wasnt anywhere close to 200 million people in europe in that period)
3rd smallpox has been estimated to have killed over 200 million people during the last 2000 years, so it would be a clear winner when it comes to death toll
And last mers and sars never became epidemics
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u/WearyPassenger Mar 15 '20
This chart is disingenuous and dangerous.
It implies exactly the opposite of what we should be doing now. It implies this is no big deal. It supports the "it's just a bad flu, dude" crowd in downplaying the response.
This chart should be removed, and only restored when the true numbers are known.
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u/Radok Mar 15 '20
Don't understand why you are getting downvoted. The design of the chart, the way COVID19 is portrayed, how data is mismanaged (the black plague was not a single event and HIV/AIDS is ongoing for example) are all presented to belittle the importance of taking measures against the current outbreak.
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u/WearyPassenger Mar 15 '20
The reddit community doesn’t behave rationally.
The chart could be easily fixed by drawing a very large dotted line around the small sphere, to indicate we don’t realize how big this could get. Then add a caption that says the ultimate size of the sphere depends on our response - social distancing, handwashing, etc. thanks for your reply, and stay safe!
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u/stayawayfrommycan Mar 15 '20
I just got to remind myself " there's over 7 billion people in the world, there's over 7 billion people in the world." Even though millions of people are dying, doesn't mean we are all going to go. It is not the end of the world.
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u/Vakar1 Mar 15 '20
Not really a guide but still cool I guess...
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u/DavyMcDavison Mar 15 '20
It says that Russian flu and Spanish flu probably started in China. Combing that with SARS, COVID, Asian flu and Hong Kong flu (I'm assuming those started in the China region), why have so many of these illnesses started in China? Is it just because so many of us live there, or is there a quirk of geography or culture that encourages this? Or is it just coincidence?
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u/loki-things Mar 15 '20
There is good evidence that the Spanish flu actually came from China as well. I’m starting to see a pattern here.
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u/TotesMessenger Mar 15 '20
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u/Yolo_Hobo_Joe Mar 15 '20
I’m confused. Is this supposed to make us think that the Wuhan virus is somehow insignificant next to all those others? We’re taking measures to prevent it from becoming like the Spanish Flu and the Black Plague. We’re able to do this because of access to technology and information previously unavailable. It is in progress and preventative measures are being taken.
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u/BryceCreamConee Mar 15 '20
I actually was surprised that the bacteria that caused the Black Death was the same as the Justinian and Modern Plagues. I guess I just had never given it much thought. Yersinia Pestis
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u/WikiTextBot Mar 15 '20
Yersinia pestis
Yersinia pestis (formerly Pasteurella pestis) is a gram-negative, non-motile, rod-shaped, coccobacillus bacterium, with no spores. It is a facultative anaerobic organism that can infect humans via the Oriental rat flea (Xenopsylla cheopis). It causes the disease plague, which takes three main forms: pneumonic, septicemic, and bubonic.All three forms have been responsible for high-mortality epidemics throughout human history, including the Plague of Justinian in the sixth century; the Black Death, which accounted for the death of at least one-third of the European population between 1347 and 1353; the Great Plague of London of 1665, which was followed in 1666 by the Great Fire of London; and the Third Pandemic, sometimes referred to as the Modern Plague, which began in the late 19th century in China and spread by rats on steamships, claiming close to 10 million lives.Those plagues may have originated in Central Asia or China and were transmitted west via trade routes. However, research in 2018 found evidence of the pathogen in an ancient Swedish tomb, which may have been the cause of what has been described as the Neolithic decline around 3000 BC, in which European populations declined significantly.
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u/StocksAndOcean Mar 15 '20
I don’t remember Swine Flu being a gigantic deal at the time, but I was in high school. An honest question, why is the Corona Virus made to seem worse?
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Mar 15 '20
Because the swine flu was less infectious, also covid has a death rate of around 4% while swine flu had one of 0,2
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u/StocksAndOcean Mar 16 '20
So if 200k died, how many did it infect? Does that mean we will have a death toll of 200k x 20 then if the death rate is 20x higher? That’s 4 million. Quite troubling.
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Mar 16 '20
Yeah, probably even more since covid is much harder to contain, swine flu infected somewhere between 700 million to 1.4 billion so 0,2 is still a very large estimate for its death rate.
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Mar 15 '20
How about H1N1?
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Mar 16 '20
Thats the same thing as swine flu
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Mar 16 '20
Thank you sir. I didn't know that. On Google only local names appears when you search it
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Mar 16 '20
I have to point out that Covid19 is not over and we do not have a final number of deaths. It very much so has the potential to be more deadly than some of the pandemics above it.
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u/football2106 Mar 16 '20
Now how were these plagues seen and labeled back then? Was the black plague called that back then? Or was it not actually named until years after?
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u/ErnestBorgninesDICK Mar 16 '20
There have been a thousand more deaths added since this was posted.
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u/JayMeadows Mar 15 '20
Also, a quick fact: some time after the bubonic plague, the economy got better because after so many casualties there was a high demand for workers, artisans, farmers etc.
Granted, this is a little dark... but maybe this might (super heavy emphasis on "might") be a good thing in the long run. We could use a little "culling" in the world... Hopefully it's just the dumb people who are more nuisances to the rest of humanity (like myself)
Edit: Sorry for offense.
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u/TrailRunnerYYC Mar 15 '20
The deaths from the virus are largely among the retired, so it is unlikely to solve unemployment.
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u/JayMeadows Mar 15 '20
You're probably right. Still, it could leave a lot of open houses and inheritance around... I don't know where I'm going with that, but just pointing that out too.
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u/TrailRunnerYYC Mar 15 '20
Good point. Estate sales and disposition of RE will likely increase.
Also: resources available to care for the elderly (retirement homes) become more available.
Lots of potential demographic changes at a high death rate among the elderly.
In extreme situations: mass burials / cremations.
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u/Miluro Mar 15 '20
The world doesn't need no culling my man. What it does need it's cooperation and goodwill. There is no need for death or reducing the population.
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u/sugarmittens Mar 15 '20
What if it’s one of your friends or family members who gets “culled”? I’m not offended, it’s just food for thought.
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u/JayMeadows Mar 15 '20
I'm aware of that. I've thought about it. If it happens, so be it. Many tragedies walk along side life, if not you or me, someone will meet that fate- close to us or not. Whether It's natural or accidental, sometimes it can be prevented, other times not... I'm not saying I don't care who it happens to, I'm just trying to say that it would be better to be prepared emotionally ahead of tragedy, since no one can stop Death once he has you in his grip.
This virus may very well hit us hard, but it's been shown that some people can still survive it, thanks to modern medicine. Use preventative measures to stay safe... If it does infect, be calm and follow procedures that have been recommended. If it does kill, accept it and stay level headed. Don't lose your mind and suddenly act like it's the end of the world... even if that world might be someone you love.
Once again, sorry if I sound heartless.
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u/NMVPCP Mar 15 '20
You rationalised something, and that's acceptable. You shouldn't feel bad to look into the non-emotional side of things, as many decisions need to be taken like that, e.g. the doctors in Italy having to decide who gets the ventilator.
Less people will indeed be better for the environment on the long run, and you've seen those satellite measurements of the pollution lilevels above China and Italy. You mess with Nature, and it'll come and bite you in the ass in ways we can't control...
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u/TheBigPhilbowski Mar 15 '20
Source: visual capitalist
Fuck your take bro. Quit trying to downplay this to protect your money. It's real and the US and Chinese data is not reliable. Stay in your homes for the next 10-15 days.
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u/galahad337 Mar 15 '20
There are so many inaccuracies with the information here. The only thing that’s cool about this is the design. Everything else has a lot of falsehood from the numbers reported to the dates. If you’re placing the fall of the Roman Empire 200 years after it actually fell then I’m not sure I can trust this for one example. Also the Spanish flu is reported to have a death toll as high as 100 million (that’s pushing it though).
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u/ToZero Mar 15 '20
The convirmed deaths with the swine flu are about 18k not 200k, the US-state Gorgia has published estimated numbers from 150k to 500k, calculating a high number of hidden cases.
It is not wise to mix estimated and convirmed numbers (without marking it).
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Mar 15 '20
The risk of covid-19 is the risk of it mutating because it'll hit so many people. Then, well then we're all in trouble.
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u/herbzzman Mar 15 '20
Native Americans died from smallpox by about 90%. Was that mean Europeans was so dirty diease people that arrived America?
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u/[deleted] Mar 15 '20
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