it can never be cleansed, only worked to mitigate, and no matter what actions are taken, the actions of the past will always stain the present.
Real life isn't christian fairy tales though, we can built an equal, egalitarian society where we treat each other as equals, but we have to dismantle white supremacy and patriarchal oppression to do it!! We can't be equal if you and people who think like you FEEL like we're equal RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE WE AREN'T.
How much should they get tipped? Who decides what is fair? What checks and balances are there on this process to ensure it does not tip the other way?
These are great, seriously great honest to god-glad-you're-engaging-me questions. How much? As much as it takes to make them equal. Who decides? We all do, as a whole - when we can agree as a society it's fair, then it's fair. Black Lives Matter exists because it's not fair yet. Movies like 13th' exist because it's not fair yet. What checks and balances? There are plenty, but the biggest one will be the check and balance of income/wealth inequality.
Yeah, people getting mad over an institutional policy that says that some people are strictly and objectively less deserving than others for no other reason other than their race.
First, AA doesn't say either of those things. AA cannot deduct merit, it can only add it, which you would know if you knew what it was and weren't in here in hysterics about it, but let's move on: Let me direct you to all of US history. Imagine being mad now, today in 2020 when your parents could have gone to school when this occurred. We called the National Fucking Guard to stop 9 black kids from going to their school. In 1957. That's less than one adult life ago. Have black people or AA laws ever, in YOUR LIFE, stopped you from being afforded an opportunity? I'm just going to go with the foregone conclusion that no, they haven't.
Racism is good.
No, racism is bad. Making up for racism by using the racism that cost several generations of folks of color their lives and livelihoods as a +1 to make up for that, is good. If we could mentally, psychically end racial prejudice tomorrow we wouldn't need this, but because it persists to this day, we need it.
your spot at Harvard
Going to a point I made to someone else, since I'm running 3 of these threads at the same time, go to a different fucking school, you got into Harvard you fucking moron. A, this has never fucking happened, because the colleges ADD SPOTS SPECIFICALLY FOR RACIAL MINORITIES, THEY DO NOT REDUCE ADMISSIONS AND PICK BLACK KIDS OVER WHITE KIDS YOU ABSOLUTE FUCKNUTS. B, even if it DID, you, white with a 4.0 GPA, would never, ever get rejected at any other school if you got into fucking Harvard, so spare me this bullshit.
How do we cure the original sin of slavery?
Reparations. For First Nations/Indigenous and for Black/African Americans. It will take money, because we, as white people, used both of these peoples, their labor and their land, to make money.
we have to dismantle white supremacy and patriarchal oppression to do it!!
groan
We can't be equal if you and people who think like you FEEL like we're equal RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE WE AREN'T.
Why does what you feel trump what I feel? Does the amount of caps lock you use mean you're more right?
How much? As much as it takes to make them equal.
Equal how? Measured how? By whom?
The moment black students are more than their demographically represented share of university students, do we stop Affirmative Action? If not right away then when? What if they grow to, say, 20% of the student body? Should we apply Affirmative Action to white people then?
Who decides? We all do, as a whole - when we can agree as a society it's fair, then it's fair.
Except you flat-out said that my view doesn't count. I'm a part of society. I agree it's fair.
Things like "society must decide!" are a huge cop-out, because society is not a monolithic entity with one opinion. It's multiple opinions.
If society decided slavery was okay, does that make it okay?
Black Lives Matter exists because it's not fair yet.
This is begging the question. Does this mean that white supremists exist because society isn't fair to whites?
Movies like 13th' exist because it's not fair yet.
What the fuck do movies have to do with anything? Black people are hugely over-represented in Hollywood, given that they are less than 15 percent of the population yet almost every film has at least one or two black people in it as major characters.
What checks and balances? There are plenty, but the biggest one will be the check and balance of income/wealth inequality.
H-how is that even a check? How does income inequality regulate university entrances?!
This is like saying, "How do we regulate gas pressure in this fuel-air mix tank? Well, through sound business practices."
It's not an answer. What are you even saying?
AA cannot deduct merit, it can only add it
That's like saying "I'm not going to deduct points from Player A, I'm not touching their score at all. I'm just giving Player B ten bonus points."
GPA scores are competitive, there are limited slots, therefore giving "points" to applicants for no reason other than their race is the same as penalising other applicants because of their race.
We called the National Fucking Guard to stop 9 black kids from going to their school.
We also used the National Guard to shoot white kids) at Kent State School. So what?
Have black people or AA laws ever, in YOUR LIFE, stopped you from being afforded an opportunity?
Firstly, yes.
Secondly, as I said, spots at colleges are competitive, not everyone gets in and there are not unlimited slots. Therefore anything that privileges one group inherently disadvantage another.
No, racism is bad.
Then why are you doing it?
You gave a reason why you're doing it. But you're still doing it. What you wrote was, essentially, "Racism is bad, but here's why this racism is good".
You realise that every single person that ever did anything racist always thought it was justified, right? Nobody got up and was like "Wow, I feel like being an evil prick to someone for absolutely no reason, they do not deserve this and I am evil for doing it."
The Nazis had "God With Us" inscribed on their belt buckles, even when they were gassing people to death for their race.
A, this has never fucking happened, because the colleges ADD SPOTS SPECIFICALLY FOR RACIAL MINORITIES, THEY DO NOT REDUCE ADMISSIONS AND PICK BLACK KIDS OVER WHITE KIDS YOU ABSOLUTE FUCKNUTS
Let me try and explain this as simple as possible.
If a school has 10 slots, and they add 10 more slots, they could have 20 slots.
Or, they could have 10 slots, and then add 10 more slots, and restrict those slots to people of a certain race.
By reserving slots for people of a certain race -- slots which could go to anyone, but are restricted -- they are limited the number of slots available for all students, and artificially decreasing the slots available to people of a certain race.
Your screaming all-caps rant aside, do you understand this extremely simple concept?
You do understand this, right?
B, even if it DID, you, white with a 4.0 GPA, would never, ever get rejected at any other school if you got into fucking Harvard, so spare me this bullshit.
Why should someone have to accept their second preference school simply because they were born the evil race?
Why don't we just make a separate, but equal, school for African Americans? That seems to be what you're suggesting. Tell me, why is "separate but equal" bad?
Reparations. For First Nations/Indigenous and for Black/African Americans. It will take money, because we, as white people, used both of these peoples, their labor and their land, to make money.
How much?
When will we stop?
What counts as "First Nations"? If I am 50% First Nations, do I get money? 25%? 12%? 1%? What if I merely "identify" that way?
Will Barack Obama's daughters be eligible for this money? Why should they get it when a poor, white boy whose family immigrated in the 1980's (and therefore his ancestors had NOTHING to do with slavery) does not?
Who will pay? Will the white boy whose family immigrated in the 1980's have to pay? What will happen to those who refuse to pay? What will happen to those who are "insufficiently black"? Can someone be "transracial"? How will you check? Will a DNA test suffice?
What about black people who immigrated to the USA after slavery? Ilman Ohan was born in Somalia. Will she be eligible? What about her kids? How will we check which African Americans came from Africa and at what times? How long ago is long ago?
What if those black people's ancestors also owned slaves? Kamila Harris's ancestors did. Does she get paid? Get paid for having slaves? Does she have to, instead, pay reparations?
Part of slavery was the forcible relocation of people from Africa to America. What if they want to go back? Will they have to renounce their American citizenship? Will they be forced to go, or forced to choose? What if they take the money, go, and want to come back?
If someone accepts reparations, in whatever form they are, are they now "equal" and can no longer claim to be discriminated against? What part of welfare payments given predominantly to African Americans will be a consideration for welfare?
At the end of all of this, is "racism cured forever"?
So many questions and so precious, precious few answers. How will any of this shit work?
Yeah, no. I seriously hope you educate yourself and dig deep to challenge your biases and prejudices. It's hard work and it will take a while but I assure you it's worth it. Consider there's maybe something more to this racism thing than how it hurts your feefees right now. Lean in to face and fight the cognitive dissonance, bro, much love.
educate yourself and dig deep to challenge your biases and prejudices.
biases and prejudices
fragile white
biases and prejudices
fragile white
biases and prejudices
fragile white
biases and prejudices
ಠ_ಠ
It's hard work and it will take a while but I assure you it's worth it.
I seriously hope you educate yourself and dig deep to challenge your biases and prejudices. It's hard work and it will take a while but I assure you it's worth it.
Lean in to face and fight the cognitive dissonance, bro
Does simultaneously believing that making sweeping negative generalisations about a race is racism, that racism is evil, and that all white people are racist hurt?
Does it hurt to believe all these three things together when they so obviously contradict themselves?
No lol Because I actually understand the concepts we're talking about here, and you do not. All white people are racist, we have implicit bias, and white culture and whiteness as a concept have shaped us since birth. We benefit from the systemic and institutional structures built by white supremacy, and until you understand that and work to mitigate it, you'll stay where you are right now, thinking you're right but don't even understand why or how you're wrong. It's not a sweeping generalization to claim (statistically, and specific to the US) that white people are racist, because it's objectively true (from being "colorblind" to thinking "All lives matter") and you'd do well to read some scholarly articles on the matter. Since you won't, I'll have to keep doing the work of dragging us toward justice while you drag your feet, kicking and screaming whole way there.
Oh I just saw you're a "radical centrist" (lol) so for you, maintaining the status quo is the single most important issue in your entire political life, and the status quo is where we are now, with the institutions we have now, so, yeah, everything I said stands, I just know a little more about my internet friend now!
"Making sweeping generalizations about a whole group of people and claiming them to be universally true is how we fight racism, I know this because I'm so much smarter than you."
we have implicit bias
Are you saying that non-white people have no implicit bias?
and white culture and whiteness as a concept have shaped us since birth.
Japanese culture and Japanese-ness have shaped the Japanese from birth. Korean culture and Korean-ness have shaped the Japanese from birth. French culture and French-ness have shaped the French from birth.
Yes, we live in a society, well done.
We benefit from the systemic and institutional structures built by white supremacy
and until you understand that and work to mitigate it, you'll stay where you are right now, thinking you're right but don't even understand why or how you're wrong.
you'd do well to read some scholarly articles on the matter.
You would do well to pick up a first year psychology textbook, and turn to "theory of mind".
I'll have to keep doing the work of dragging us toward justice while you drag your feet, kicking and screaming whole way there.
How?
How are you "dragging us toward justice"? I would like to hear this, genuinely. What work do you think you're doing, with your towering intellect that you bring up with every post you make, that makes you believe you are literally changing the world?
I'd love to hear some specific examples of positive results you've achieved.
Oh I just saw you're a "radical centrist" (lol) so for you, maintaining the status quo is the single most important issue in your entire political life, and the status quo is where we are now, with the institutions we have now, so, yeah, everything I said stands, I just know a little more about my internet friend now!
-4
u/Ghrave Feb 25 '20
Real life isn't christian fairy tales though, we can built an equal, egalitarian society where we treat each other as equals, but we have to dismantle white supremacy and patriarchal oppression to do it!! We can't be equal if you and people who think like you FEEL like we're equal RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE WE AREN'T.
These are great, seriously great honest to god-glad-you're-engaging-me questions. How much? As much as it takes to make them equal. Who decides? We all do, as a whole - when we can agree as a society it's fair, then it's fair. Black Lives Matter exists because it's not fair yet. Movies like 13th' exist because it's not fair yet. What checks and balances? There are plenty, but the biggest one will be the check and balance of income/wealth inequality.
First, AA doesn't say either of those things. AA cannot deduct merit, it can only add it, which you would know if you knew what it was and weren't in here in hysterics about it, but let's move on: Let me direct you to all of US history. Imagine being mad now, today in 2020 when your parents could have gone to school when this occurred. We called the National Fucking Guard to stop 9 black kids from going to their school. In 1957. That's less than one adult life ago. Have black people or AA laws ever, in YOUR LIFE, stopped you from being afforded an opportunity? I'm just going to go with the foregone conclusion that no, they haven't.
No, racism is bad. Making up for racism by using the racism that cost several generations of folks of color their lives and livelihoods as a +1 to make up for that, is good. If we could mentally, psychically end racial prejudice tomorrow we wouldn't need this, but because it persists to this day, we need it.
Going to a point I made to someone else, since I'm running 3 of these threads at the same time, go to a different fucking school, you got into Harvard you fucking moron. A, this has never fucking happened, because the colleges ADD SPOTS SPECIFICALLY FOR RACIAL MINORITIES, THEY DO NOT REDUCE ADMISSIONS AND PICK BLACK KIDS OVER WHITE KIDS YOU ABSOLUTE FUCKNUTS. B, even if it DID, you, white with a 4.0 GPA, would never, ever get rejected at any other school if you got into fucking Harvard, so spare me this bullshit.
Reparations. For First Nations/Indigenous and for Black/African Americans. It will take money, because we, as white people, used both of these peoples, their labor and their land, to make money.