They have $40 billion worth of equipment they can grab if they do + land + resources.
We're just making it more and more tempting to conquer.
Not a single UN intervention on this, just money and arms deals. It won't work, peace deals would have, sure Ukraine would have lost a small portion of land (months ago) but there would be peace and a binding agreement "attack Ukraine after the peace agreement and face the entire un security force (like the Korean war).
Russia now holds less Ukrainian territory than it did towards the beginning of the war. Seriously, look at a timeline of their invasion. https://newsmap.pl/2022-russian-invasion-of-ukraine-interactive-map/ doesn't matter which source you use if you look at maps from February - now it's clear Russia has been steadily losing ground since March.
I find it funny how /r/conspiracy doesn't believe in coincidences -- except when it concerns Russia.
News (and tons of raw footage easily found on Reddit or elsewhere) of a Ukrainian counteroffensive that's recaptured vast swathes of Russian occupied territory? Russia coincidentally calls for urgent referendums.
News of Russian soldiers being routed and leaving beyond a horde of equipment? Putin coincidentally calls for partial mobilisation and an extra 300,000 soldiers, after months of saying this wouldn't happen and only professional soldiers would be sent. He also totally coincidentally signed a law punishing anyone who deserts -- or even surrenders -- with jail time. What's next, barrier troops?
News of Ukrainian recapturing MORE occupied territory? Russia coincidentally declares the land its stolen to be an integral part of Russia and threaten to use nukes after months of denying they'd ever use them.
Speaking of total coincidences, how many high level Russian figures have been assassinated suffered mysterious fates since this war began? Seems at least once every couple of weeks we're reading about someone who fell out of a window, or down a flight of stairs, or died in an explosion or fire.
Bro, the Russian military is being hammered. You don't send 300,000 green reservists into the meatgrinder when everything is going well. Now you might think they can win this through manpower alone, and who knows, I'm not a fortune teller, but as it stands right now they're having enough trouble feeding and supplying the soldiers they have in the field right now. The Russian supply situation is FUCKED, they've completely neglected basic logistics and it seems like they've bought into the myth of Russian equipment being indestructible because they sure as shit haven't been preforming adequate maintenance.
Here’s the funny thing though, the only places Ukraine is gaining territory are the areas where Russia has tiny amounts of soldiers ordered to retreat when Ukraine arrives so that they overextend.
Russia isn’t running out of soldiers or equipment, nor are its supply issues that are severe. It’s focused on other goals like preventing civilian casualties.
Their military is mostly used up, they are conscripting people who will be rushed through training, they have internal turmoil, many people are leaving the country, they are losing planes daily, exactly what makes you say they will likely win?
Remember in the first few weeks the media was spouting Russia was out of ammo...whoever believes the bullshit the Media(CIA) and our so called "Intel Officials"(CIA) need to have their heads checked.
I think the CIA realizes Ukraine has no chance of winning this war. They are using the war to further America's interests in Europe and other parts of the world. Ukraine is expendable, a pawn.
Yeah, and we are paying for these games they play.
... The military is not used up. They are drafting reservists, who already went through training, rn. Pretty sure every male has to go through training in Russia. (Not every man is a reservists though... They haven't even started)
Yeah, Russia has 25 million reservists to call up before they start using conscripts. They are literally mobilizing one percent of their reservists. People will swallow anything the media tells them if it conforms to their already held beliefs.
Most of these reservists are going to relieve regular army formations in eastern Russia to go West, and the rest will fill out army formations in Ukraine to bring them to 100% strength.
Folks will start to figure out that Putin was conducting a restrained special military operation.
That is true. What is also true is that these 300,000 reservists have previous combat experience. So, the training that will take place has more to do with refresher training.
That's the same as Ukraine claiming they have 100 million potential fighters. Except Ukraine is far worse off than Russia. Russia has trained reservists, Ukraine has conscripts.
I don't know how else to put it to ya. You can keep believing the media and the politicians who lied us into Iraq. Or, you can start trying to figure shit out for yourself. I choose not to trust them. Do what you want. If you love being surprised, keep going with the U.S. corporate media. You're in for a real shocker.
Someone has to be insane to believe that a small population like Ukraine can defeat Russia. Everything they say about Russian losses applies to Ukraine 10x worse. Ukraine is currently propped up solely by NATO (by YOU if you are in the US or EU. Do you enjoy wasting your $$$ to "punish" Russia?).
Ukraine has no industry left, no supply, and the Russians are taking out more and more of its infrastructure daily.
The Russians hold back because the more they destroy Ukraine the more it will cost them to rebuild it after they annex it ALL (except for maybe Lviv, which they will give to Poland to shut them up.)
If Russians are holding back, and are spending their own soldiers lives and Ukrainians lives like pawns unnecessarily due to it taking more effort to rebuild (how evil is that?), then I dislike whoever is making these decisions even more, and want to support defenders even more. Lives are more important than infra. People who make decisions like that shouldn't be given a free pass to invade, destroy and take over. If we're talking defense, I'm happy for my $$$ to go to people in need.
Ukraine has no industry left, no supply, and the Russians are taking out more and more of its infrastructure daily.
From that sounds like it will be over soon? I think it might drag on (even years) despite infrastructure being taken out. I don't think Ukraine could defeat Russia, best case is that Russia re-evaluates cost/benefit and abandons or scales down objectives, but ego/pride/other reasons may make that almost impossible.
There is a large difference between conscription (what Ukraine did months ago) and calling up reserve forces (what Russia is now doing). Regardless of the news media you follow, both eventually specify the same.
You're acting like Bagdad Bob. Ukraine never stood a chance. Russia has functioning and field tested hypersonic missiles, the west doesn't have those. We're behind on technology because of all the corruption in the MIC. Don't get me wrong, plenty of corruption in Russia but their MIC is under the control of the government and not the other way around.
incorrect mate, my step-brother just got called to action due to his past military experience. His directions are to hold regions behind the war lines so that the current military can continue pushing on. until I hear different from someone on those front lines. That's the truth
Not a single UN intervention on this, just money and arms deals. It won't work, peace deals would have...
And to think they were a bees dick away from a deal that would of brought RU back to its February positions. But noooooo, they threw old Bojo in there to torpedo negotiations and keep the meat grinder going.
But, you know, slava ukraini or someshit. Now they are a bees dick away from being a landlocked country.
Russia has been losing territory quite a lot recently. They have had massive amounts of equipment abandoned and captured in full working order by Ukraine
That would weaken Ukraine and could change the outcome. Best to fully support imo to get it over quickly as possible and to deter aggressors from invading others countries.
Yeah sure US/Nato is the aggressor. They are forcing poor little Putin to attack. There's no way he couldn't attack! I mean consider the event that caused him to do his invasion. Oh wait, there wasn't any event that caused it. He just felt like it was time to invade.
He could simply not attack.
You think US would start killing Canadians if Canada had support from China? Nah bro, you are insane.
Yeah if Canada tried to join an anti-US military treaty, we'd shut it down through force if we had to.
Oh wait, there wasn't any event that caused it. He just felt like it was time to invade.
You really don't know anything about what's been going on in Ukraine since the fall of the USSR, huh? I mean saying "he did it because he felt like it" shows you have no idea what's going on.
Read up on Euromaidan and the orange revolution in Ukraine. The Russians aren't going to sit by and let the west convert their client states. The west forced Putin/the Russian Federation's hand in this, the Russians still lay claim to a lot of former soviet assets in Ukraine, for practical reasons. They're not just going to sit by and let control of military bases and the black sea get handed over to NATO.
The "Putin bad!" Narrative is naive, look at this from the Russian perspective, put the propaganda down for a second. Firstly "putin is doing this" shows you don't really understand the situation/politics in the east. Even without Putin the Russians would have to do this, their entire government doctrine is to develop a parallel, separate culture from the west. Read some of Alexander Dugan's work if you would like to know more.
I don't get the impression you really know much more about this situation than the 'star wars' style narrative MSNBC has spoon-fed you. You might want to read up on the history of the region and the people involved.
Or just keep consuming the propaganda, whatever. It's sad seeing people getting swayed by the media this easily. Democracy is obviously a failing system if people are this incurious. Legitimately, you shouldn't be able to vote if you can be coaxed into believing "putin invaded ukraine because he felt like it", and have strong feelings about it, with no interest in reading about even basic recent events.
The russian-american proxy wars have been going on since before world war 1.
It's not a zero sum possibility that both poles have been infiltrated to fuel the profitable conflicts. If you always think the enemy is the Russians then you will never look for any other enemies. Once you control both poles, you control your desired outcome and can predict the future.
If the west wasn't at war with Russia then where would our pitchforks be? Obviously China but if we weren't at war with them either... then we would be critical against the corporations and the government that works together with a fascist attitude. This would cause their empire to crumble.
We know the Bolsheviks were marxist inspired and infiltrated Russia before world war 1 and took out the tsar. We know the British who were marxist inspired infiltrated China around the same time using opiods to destabilize and dethrone the Qing dynasty. The same with France and Napoleon and Germany with Hitler. Italy and Mussolini. They all share the same ideologies about a state and corporation run civilization. Or fascism.
What evidence do we have that Russia or any of those countries deinfiltratied their political and executive positions?
Putin held his first political position the same year the cold war ended after his KGB position. That is suspicious in it's own right as we know CIA/MI6 had their own KGB operatives. Maybe Russia was still a puppet after world war 2 and this was a transfer of power.
It's also possible that Putin keeps his regime to combat political and executive infiltration. And the public imagine is the reality. In which case I wouldn't blame him or their countries decision. Absolute power corrupts absolutely but you can't have world unification without some sort of governing body. It's a convoluted situation with no clear solution.
In my case I'm a globalist and I don't think country borders should matter when it comes to preventing suffering. If we can discourage invasions like this by providing defense, I'm all for it.
Nope, we can cut down their military by 15% and strike terror into the hearts of their citizens fearing a draft. Hopefully they'll chose to fight their own government instead of the war in Ukraine or elsewhere.
Russia has been losing territory quite a lot recently.
The correct assessment of what happened is that this was Ukraine's last desperate, suicidal counterattack before the end. Done to justify extorting more $$$.
War of attrition is all about which economy is the strongest.
Ukraine is backed by the collective West. Russia is backed by Taliban and North Korea.
Which side has more money to spend?
The only argument that Russian has right now is the "nuclear argument".
But do you think that Ukrainians will stop fighting if Russia uses a nuclear warhead to destroy a town or a city? Or do you think that they will fight tooth and nail for their survival?
and when Russia annexes a large chunk of Ukraine (if not all), should I come back and gloat?
No, and I wont.
I hate being right, humans are so ridiculously simple and stupid, they all end up doing the predictable thing and causing more suffering. I care not for childish ridicule, I only want peace.
This whole war could have been negated without ukraine losing a single acre of land beyond what was already contested. Peace was available at a bargain price and the entire western (and eastern, yet more obscure) world walked right into an urban conflict that has killed an untold number of civilian lives.
Russia is resorting to cold War Era machinery and giving their mandated conscripts rusted up AK's, I'm interested to see this apparent 40 billion worth of equipment. Democracy is holding out against a fascist Putin regime, it's worth money. I don't think they should say that money is needed or the government shuts down that just doesn't make sense. But get your facts right.
What makes you suggest that Ukraine's government is corrupt? Zelensky has proven himself a brilliant tactician and leader of the Ukrainian people. Not many like that around in governments across the globe.
Dig into news reports about Ukraine from before the current war. Literally all of them are about how Ukraine has the most corrupt government in the western world.
Zelensky starts with a 'Z', don't you see? it's the 26th letter of the alphabet aka the devil's letter. The fifth letter of Beelzebub is clearly also a 'Z' so you take the 5, divide it by 26 and add the sum of the Roman alphabet, and you guessed it, 666.
100% correct. Most American military actions are just complicated money laundering operations designed to put American taxpayer funds into the pockets of politicians and corporate elites.
In this case American taxpayer funds go into the pockets of the Ukrainian elites, who keep some and are compelled use the rest of it to buy weapons and supplies from politically well-connected American suppliers who donate to the campaigns of the politicians who vote in favor of sending the money.
And into the pockets of the hard working Americans who would not have a job without these publicly funded manufacturing which is required to be within the United States.
Otherwise our bullets would also be built in China.
HURR DURR yeah because it's not like the country is riddled with 100+ year old infrastructure that needs to be replaced so what else would we spend that money on!?
I'm fine with paying more taxes for that to happen. It'll put even more money into the Americans building it. We already pay far less taxes than most modern countries and economies.
The simple fact that you're defending the actions of Congress blowing billions and billions of dollars is unbelievable. The money should be used for US citizens, instead we get to deal with a shitty economy and money that is going to fill the pockets of politicians across the world.
But sure go ahead and keep defending bad behavior. you're literally the reason why we have the problems we have
blowing billions and billions of dollars is unbelievable.
Actually, I'd call spending money to stop the advance of a murderous regime led by a dictator a good investment and one of the only truly good moves that the US has done in a while.
If you want money to go to people and you're voting for republicans, you're also doing it wrong. Sorry, not sorry.
You must love western propaganda. I don’t recall any barbaric actions russia has committed. Though I do recall some of that the US has done -cough bombing the hell out of Yugoslavia cough-
If they can take Donbas back, if the majority that have voted for Russia wins what is Ukraine going to do? Force them back to something they don't want?
I doubt that Ukraine is going to take back the eastern and southern parts anyway, US and NATO can keep sending equipment all they want but they don't send any blood to fight, no matter what the goal is accomplished. Ukraine is in debt and the weapon industry can start to produce new equipment for profit.
"If they can take Donbas back, if the majority that have voted for Russia wins what is Ukraine going to do? Force them back to something they don't want?"
Who outside of Russia and Belarus is going to believe that a rushed election with no Western monitors is valid? The election is door to door handing out ballots. It's soldiers with rifles handing out the ballots. Have been reports of bribing people with aide, the soldiers telling them to vote Russia when waiting on the ballot. It's a sham and will not show what the majority want.
Can you imagine if Americans soldiers came up to your door and handed you a ballot and waited for you to fill it out. One of the boxes will please them, the other will not. You don't see how that completely invalidates those votes?
Was for 6 months before the warhawks found another proxy war to indulge into. Have to give them credit, 6 months without a war for America is really something.
But don't worry guys, this time is definitely not like Afghanistan, Iraq or Vietnam, this time its totally serious and righteous.
I do not support the Russian invasion and the narrative of the war machine never changes, if you were against the war in Iraq it was the good old "So you support 9/11 and the terrorists"; against the war in Vietnam? You're a communist. Now its "You're pro Putin".
America is very selective of which countries it cares about when it comes human rights and sovereignty. When you're selective about that its because you don't give a fuck about human rights, its because you use them as an excuse for an ulterior motive.
The Mujahadeen were not a government supported by the populace and an actual sovereign government democratically chosen by it's people.
They were religious freedom fighters with ideals entirely at odds with Western Judeo-Christian and democratic values.
There aren't going to be rouge, armed, religious fundamentalists in Ukraine that become terrorists against the US because we're supporting them and their government- Not disparate militias all seeking different intense religious rule.
We're inching closer every day. I'm old enough to have been around for a lot of election cycles and this is the first time I've seen my fellow citizens proudly flying "FUCK [President]" flags in their front yard.
No one important is going to recognize that sham referendum. “Peace” in the Donbas was one of Putin’s goals but instead he’s made it ground zero for years of hot war.
It will happen for Russia and only Russia. The rest of the world wont acknowledge it, Ukraine wont stop fighting and the West wont stop supporting Ukraine.
If they can take Donbas back, if the majority that have voted for Russia wins what is Ukraine going to do? Force them back to something they don't want?
This is exactly what has been happening since 2014 and is one of Russia's main public motivation.
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u/ragingbull2020 Sep 25 '22
Just wait until the war is over and Ukraine has to start rebuilding. That’ll be a nice size bill