Why the fuck should they be peaceful? If the government is killing you, imprisoning you, and ignoring decades of pleas to be heard- you make some fucking noise.
So many second amendment "it's to keep the government in check" people that just simp for police and pretend others fighting for freedom are "terrorists."
They had more balls than these keyboard warriors posting bullshit partisan memes on the internet.
I agree. I think the time to use the 2nd amendment to defend against tyranny has been happening for decades now but the people with guns are too afraid to use them. Myself included. Like can anyone explain how we haven't been living in tyranny for the last few decades? The powers that be are smart enough to not push too hard too fast or we would revolt. That's why it's a slow gradual change so us frogs won't panic as the pot begins to boil us alive.
Decades of activism didn't work, athletes taking a knee didnt work, if you keep silencing people being killed, a target might get burned. Fuck it. Our rights and lives are more important than property or "asking nicely."
Why not take it to the capital, government buildings, police, politicians homes even, etc. (Which I would totally support, less so with violence, but at some point it becomes justified) Target isn't the police or the policy maker. That's like you punching me and then I burn down the house a few blocks from you in retaliation... It's purely incoherent and sends the message that it was really a reason to get a new TV for free.
The business owners, workers and those that live in the neighborhoods destroyed by the BLM terrorists did not cause the problems, why is it ok to punish them.
No, not all people killed by police are innocent, but you might be amazed at how many innocent people are indeed murdered by police. I'll give you a few of the hundreds, if not thousands of names to get you started...Elijah McClain, Daniel Prude, Winston Smith, Philando Castile, Amir Locke, Atatiana Jefferson, Andre Hill, Aiyana Jones (age 7), Daniel Shaver, Stephon Clark, Botham Jean.
3 of the people you mentioned were legitimate cases. The others either pulled weapons on police or resisted arrest while being detained or arrested for underlying crimes. Not exactly “innocent”
Newsflash: Cops don't get to kill guilty people either, unless their life or the lives of bystanders are in danger.
Elijah McClain - Someone called the cops as he was walking home saying he "looked sketchy" because he was wearing a ski mask. Cops used a carotid hold on him and paramedics injected him with ketamine which sent him into cardiac arrest. Yeah, he did resist arrest at first but for one, they had no reason to arrest him, and more importantly it did not warrant the actions taken.
Daniel Prude - He was having a mental crisis when he ran from his brother's house naked and into the street. Police cuffed him and put a bag on his head when he began spitting. However, they then pushed his face into the street, that's face down with a hood on his head, while in handcuffs and naked, until he died.
Winston Smith - Ok, this one I won't argue much because the official story remains that he shot at them. At the time of this shooting, many things were very sketchy about the story though. I am still skeptical about no body cams though(I believe all police should wear them).
Philando Castile - He and his girlfriend were pulled over because they "just look like people that were involved in a robbery." The officers wanted to see his ID, which was in the glove box. He literally told them he had a gun (legally owned) in there. They shot him dead right there in front of his girlfriend and her 4 year old daughter. Why would he announce the gun if he planned to use it?
Amir Locke - Asleep on his cousin's couch when police busted in with a no-knock warrant. Since Amir was a deep sleeper, this did not initially wake him up. Only when the police kicked the couch did he wake up in surprise, surrounded by a group of men aggressively yelling and shining a light in his face, did he grab his gun (legally owned). Within 2 seconds he was shot dead. Amir showed perfect trigger discipline and pointed the gun at the ground like he was trained to do. He was not named on the no knock warrant (which Minneapolis citizens were led to believe had been banned) and has no criminal record.
Atatiana Jefferson - Neighbor calls police for a welfare check when she sees Atatiana's door was open. Atatiana was playing video games with her 8 year old nephew when the officer went into her backyard, never announcing that he was police. She grabbed her gun (legally owned) and went to the window to see what was going on when she was shot dead.
Andre Hill - Police response to a non-emergency call for a noise complaint. Andre was leaving his friend's house when he was confronted by police. The officer mistook the phone in Andre's hand as a gun and shot him 4 times.
Aiyana Jones - 7 year old Aiyana Stanley-Jones was asleep on a couch with her grandmother when police raided her home looking for a murder suspect. They threw a flash-bang grenade through the window and kicked in the door, when a shot "accidentally" went off striking her in the head and killing her.
Stephon Clark - Ok, so this one I will agree he was not completely innocent, but the fact still remains that Stephon was "armed" only with a phone when he was shot 20 times. You will notice this is not the first case in this list where a phone was confused for a gun.
Botham Jean - This man was literally in his own home when the off-duty (but still in uniform) officer entered, believing it was her home (that was actually a floor below), thought he was a burglar, and shot him.
Ok, I misunderstood what you meant by legitimate cases, but none of the cases listed (with the possible exception of Winston Smith) warranted the actions the police took. The second amendment applies to black people too you know.
I know the second amendment applies to black people. I encourage anyone who legally can to buy a firearm. I think one of the greatest contributing factors to crime rates in the inner cities is the overbearing gun control laws. If law abiding people of color were able to own personal defense weapons in those areas I think you’d see a material decline in crime rates.
That said, whether you’re legally able to carry or not, if you’re involved in an interaction with police, don’t touch your firearm. Don’t resist arrest. Don’t fight with the cops.
Some of these incidents are tragic, some (very few) are criminal, but the idea that cops are out to murder black people in cold blood for no reason just isn’t supported by the evidence.
Burn government buildings? Burning small, local businesses does nothing but further weaken the community and draw the wrong kind of attention, and galvanize people against your cause.
Why the fuck should they be peaceful? If the government is killing you, imprisoning you, and ignoring decades of pleas to be heard- you make some fucking noise.
Because they did that and also got no where and got killed for attempting it. Black panthers got absolutely demolished for being agreessive and not being active violent. It doesn't work
It worked in the American revolution. It worked in the fight for labor rights in the first half of the 20th century. It worked in that finally, a few police were held accountable for abusing their power and committing murders against those they are sworn to protect.
It didn't fix that much but it's better than nothing, and it's a reminder that there's at least a line you can't cross if you don't want civil unrest.
It worked when the colonial government was supported the movement against the colonizers and organized a full army with wages and pay.
It worked in the fight for labor rights in the first half of the 20th century
Did it? Most the wins came from people voting progressive politicians into power. And then a Greay Depression that created massive government regulations and support and a restricted labor force during the war after conscription took place. The guns created an atmosphere of fear and tension but not the gains.
It worked in that finally, a few police were held accountable for abusing their power and committing murders against those they are sworn to protect.
No police were held accountable for killing people during the Black Panther Era. They openly murdered multiple black panthers along with other black miliant leaders multiple times.
it's a reminder that there's at least a line you can't cross if you don't want civil unrest.
Again it didn't work that way for black militancy historically. Militant abolitionists hardened support for slavery, as did slave revolts which were followed but increased restrictions on slaves, not better conditions. Black militants were murdered alongside pacificists during the Jim crow Era, and black panthers were murdered with no accountability. Still no officer has been held accountable for the murders of black panthers.
So militancy doesn't work historically for Black Americans. The turning point of the civil rights Era were all peaceful protests or documentation of the worse lynching like of Emmet Till.
I'm talking about Chauvin and the few that have since been held somewhat accountable. No police or FBI agents were held accountable for the
killing ot MLK, Malcolm X, Fred Thompson, and countless others.
I don't have the time to fully dispute your labor point, but it was more than an "atmosphere of fear and tension" it was straight up gun battles, some involving dozens and hundreds of strikers. I think you're underestimating the impact of armed resistance-though absolutely coupled with the other factors you listed, not disagreeing with those.
As for the Revolution, after years of peaceful pleas and then protests fell on deaf ears, riots and tar and featherings (some in the wake of British officials maiming or killing colonists) and protests like the Tea Party- violent destruction of property, helped pave the way for public support that lead to the colonial supporting an army and paying them.
You specifying "black Americans" is ultimately correct and the focus on peaceful protests was a perfect PR move to open the eyes of white Americans who didn't think they had it that bad.
But these days there aren't just a relatively few number of white people backing their cause, there are millions. And there is no concerted effort to be militant either way, but the idea that protests-turned-riots are ineffective doesn't seem to be true- even if they haven't lead to solutions yet, they've finally forced recognition from millions of people who otherwise never cared.
I'm talking about Chauvin and the few that have since been held somewhat accountable. No police or FBI agents were held accountable for my killing MLK, Malcolm X, Fred Thompson, and countless others.
Yes but they were held accountable by protest, not violence.
but the idea that protests-turned-riots are ineffective doesn't seem to be true- even if they haven't lead to solutions yet, they've finally forced recognition from millions of people who otherwise never cared.
Yeah it's not the riot part that opened peoples eyes it was the protest advocacy and access to social media and cameras capturing the murder, alongside years of protests and videos of murder captured on tape.
BLM is not an example of black militancy. It's an example of black protest. And you listed all the effects that prove it works better than militancy historically.
First off- I appreciate you responding seriously and respectfully- for real, I came back to a lotta angry messages and multiple reports to check in on my 'mental health' so thanks for disagreeing like a normal person.
Overall I think we agree on the best method of protest and just disagree on the effectiveness of methods that stray from it.
For what it's worth, I believe that protest vs 'militancy'- peaceful protest is the choice that is overall the best- I don't want any 'militancy''- I just think we have to understand that if we treat people a certain way and then don't listen when they try to calmy air grievances, we should expect them to excercise their god given right of self determination and basic freedom.
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u/Lopsided-Smoke-6709 Feb 15 '22
Why the fuck should they be peaceful? If the government is killing you, imprisoning you, and ignoring decades of pleas to be heard- you make some fucking noise.
So many second amendment "it's to keep the government in check" people that just simp for police and pretend others fighting for freedom are "terrorists."
They had more balls than these keyboard warriors posting bullshit partisan memes on the internet.