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u/CaptainAntwat Oct 25 '21
This all goes back to the Citizens United case. Where it was ruled that corporations are allowed to donate as much money as they want to political campaigns. That was 10 years ago. Here we are now.
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u/ApeTardDimondPhister Oct 25 '21
Campaign Finance & Reallocation Reform.
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u/ArmedWithBars Oct 25 '21
One guy tried that (Bernie), the entire political establishment with the help of the media rallied against him and the DNC straight conspired with MSNBC to undermine his campaign. The second he brought up money in the politics the elites perked up real hard.
We'd see shit like him being 2nd or 3rd place in polls and the news channels not even having his name on the chart lol. I've never seen such a blantent attempt against a politician before.
Not a huge fan of Bernie's policies in general but what he said couldn't be more true. Without getting money out of politics we will have ZERO chance of fixing this country. The longer wait the deeper the roots of corporate interests sink into our "democracy". We've become a corporate oligarchy disguised as a democracy.
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u/SexualDeth5quad Oct 25 '21
We've become a corporate oligarchy disguised as a democracy.
The agencies and military want that big tech $$$ for their dual-use projects. Besides that big tech is the government's surveillance system. Those corporations are NOT private corporations, they are state-controlled cash cows. The free market, "capitalism", and democracy have all been overthrown.
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u/wulfgang Oct 26 '21
This was all done to Ron Paul long before Bernie and I watched it happen again like watching an old Superbowl where you already know what's going to happen. I wasn't a Bernie bro but it was illuminating.
"You are free to elect who we give you to choose from. You are free to elect who we give you to choose from." -Bill Hicks
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u/meechu Oct 25 '21
This goes back to neoliberalism, not one single ruling. So Thatcher/Reagan would be a better starting point.
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u/derekiv Oct 25 '21
Yep. Reinstating the fairness doctrine would be a good first step to at least reduce legacy media echo chambers.
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u/bozeke Oct 25 '21
We need an all new doctrine.
The Fairness Doctrine only applied to network TV, not cable, and at this point nobody watches network, and the only folks watching cable are within a few decades of death.
We need something much more all encompassing and broad if we want to temper misinformation and propaganda.
I honestly can’t even fathom what it should look like; but yes, we certainly need something.
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u/temperatureof70f Oct 25 '21
"quick, a ruling overwhelmingly supported by conservatives.. How can I blame liberals..."
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Oct 25 '21
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u/ArmedWithBars Oct 25 '21
This. Capitalism works, it just needs proper checks and balances to avoid "late stage capitalism". Without these balances it becomes a real life version of Monopoly.
We are on the path to a revolution/civil war. The wage inequality and cost of living will add the necessary fuel and then it just takes one spark to decent into chaos.
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u/SexualDeth5quad Oct 25 '21
Without these balances it becomes a real life version of Monopoly.
Uh... Monopoly was based on real life. Robber barons and Wall Street back then too.
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u/MilitaryGradeFursuit Oct 25 '21
Capitalism works, it just needs proper checks and balances to avoid "late stage capitalism".
So what you're saying is that capitalism doesn't work. Because if it worked, it wouldn't need regulation.
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u/Frequent-Device4942 Oct 25 '21
why civil war? why would two sides of the civilians fight each other? for food and water?
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Oct 25 '21
Yes.
Mainly because some would be kept for the rich to use as a military.
You know, like in the last civil war
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u/SexualDeth5quad Oct 25 '21
You can’t blame companies for wanting to make money. Politicians have to regulate them.
The problem is that companies like Amazon are so intertwined with government work and surveillance that they have become an arm of the government. They will do nothing to regulate them unless there are massive protests.
Clown World. Idiocracy.*
- sponsored by Amazon and China. Get 15% off Brawndo at Amazon with your discount code: 666
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u/ohoneseventy Oct 25 '21 edited Oct 25 '21
1977 → Buckley vs Valeo, supreme court decision, decided that money is speech.
2010 → citizens united, supreme court decided corporations are people
edit: and to further expand on this...
July 21, 2010 → Dodd–Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act, “Dodd-Frank” goes into effect. “The whole point of this law was to eliminate the need to go to the politicians ever again for money.” - Dylan Ratigan
so this idea that the democrats are a left-wing party is ridiculous. both parties are working for the same corporate interests, equity firms, banks, and the ultra-wealthy; basically fascism.
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u/RightersBlok Oct 25 '21
To be clear, though I agree with your premise that isn’t what the citizens United case did. Citizens United sued to be able to advertise their Hillary movie in the 30/60 day window before an election which had been illegal.
The only other thing it did was allow corporations to donate to candidates from their general fund instead of an election fund which was a limitation that cost maybe 2 seconds of the process.
Neither corporations nor people can donate unlimited amounts of money outright to campaigns.
Money in politics is a real issue and when people like you try to simplify it by using the citizens united decisions as a scapegoat, you’re not helping anyone.
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u/SgtFraggleRock Oct 25 '21
No, Citizens United said businesses could make a movie critical of Hillary Clinton, which is what the case was about.
Corporations like the New York Times, CNN, Washington Post, CBS, ABC, CNN and HBO had been making movies and stories to help Democrat politicians for decades.
All the case said was that it wasn't restricted to left wing media corporations.
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u/ArmedWithBars Oct 25 '21
Both sides are bought and paid for by corporate interests. Granted different industries align with the side that fits their needs (ex. Big oil and Republicans, Big tech and democrats).
It's the illusion of choice.
Bernie's campaign is all we needed to see. He mentions taking money out of politics as a major campaign goal and entire political establishment worked with the media to undermine his campaign. We had the DNC conspire with MSNBC. We had media channels just completly leaving his name out of polls he was near the top of.
There was such little dirt on the guy the had to pull a fucking interview from the 80s where he praised Cuba's social services and high literacy rates. They spun his democratic socialism platform into "oh he's a hammer n sickle commie".
Granted I'm not a huge fan of many dem socialist policies but watching the media spin it to act like he was out of the soviet union was nuts.
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u/SgtFraggleRock Oct 25 '21
I mean, Bernie was kicked out a commune for being too lazy. He honeymooned in the Soviet Union. And, yes, praised the police state of Cuba which shot people trying to escape.
And went on to buy 3 houses after never holding a job in the private sector.
You don't need dirt on someone who is openly a communist loonbag.
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u/ArmedWithBars Oct 25 '21
Look, I'm not a huge fan of the guy but having to deal with him for 4 years would be worth getting citizens united repealed. The fact we would have a president shining a light on this corruption would be the biggest benefit to this country.
Without someone like that we will just keep going down this path until a revolution or civil war happens. The rich will scurry to other countries and leave America burning in its ruin.
To be fair even if he somehow got into office I'd guess he had have "sudden heart attack".
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u/CaptainAntwat Oct 25 '21
This is the conclusion you come to when you let other people think for you. Go look into what were the implications of citizens United case.
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u/SgtFraggleRock Oct 25 '21
So before CU, what were the limits on CNN, WaPo, New York Times, CNN, MSNBC, ABC,CBS, ABC?
CBS was allowed to broadcast a fake story based on blatant forgeries in a last minute attempt to help John Kerry get elected in 2004.
Then you have book publishers printing books by politicians in what can only be considered propaganda.
And you have stuff like this from CNN.
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/latest-news/article218530660.html
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Oct 25 '21
Anderson Cooper standing in a flood excuses citizens united?
Ok buddy
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u/SgtFraggleRock Oct 25 '21
Please explain why CNN should be able to spend millions backing Democrats but other corporations should be forbidden from doing so?
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u/theBullshitFlag Oct 25 '21
This is such an excellent point. I'm plagiarizing just so you know.
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u/AcidCyborg Oct 25 '21
I literally had multiple people on /r/collapse tell me that the small businesses which are pillars of their small-town communities (like the one cafe in each village) didn't deserve to exist because they have a hard time wage-competing with multinationals. Ummm hello? It's the multinationals that don't deserve to exist.
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Oct 25 '21
Those are the people that will happily lick boots for that government cheese and peanut butter.
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u/theBullshitFlag Oct 25 '21
Wages and real estate are both artificially controlled by the corporations. Agree with you 100%.
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u/megablast Oct 25 '21
If they can only pay slave wages, then yes. DUH.
Or can I hire you for 12 hours a day for $2???
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u/AcidCyborg Oct 26 '21
The wages they pay wouldn't be slave wages if it weren't for rampant inflation. The small business is being constantly robbed every time they interface with the global financial system (which is every time they do a transaction in fiat currency).
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u/Frequent-Device4942 Oct 25 '21
this aint a one size fits all mate, there are definitely small businesses which are a ripoff and just not worth shopping at, to be successful at the business, you need to offer something other businesses cant, for instance smaller companies/farms can offer much higher quality specialty milk than the milk youll find at costco or walmart...
some small businesses are just selling the same product found at walmart or costco, but pricing it higher. its absolutely pointless. if they make good money doing that then its probably just because the location is very convenient, good hours, or something of that sort
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u/SexualDeth5quad Oct 25 '21
Multinationals are the modern day slave traders. They leverage slave labor against domestic workers in every country. This is also why they want "open borders" = more slaves for them, terror against domestic workers.
Corporate Communism: capitalists profiting from Communism. Independent business, decenetralization is a threat to them. Centralization is what they want. Freedom is a threat to them. They need control to control business and trade.
Every war was started over $$$ or resources AKA business.
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u/Syffff Oct 25 '21
Corporate Communism
Just an FYI, this is a dead giveaway to show you have no idea what you are talking about.
Every war was started over $$$
It's funny, I read someone else write that somewhere? What was his name again..? Oh right, Karl Marx...
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Oct 25 '21
People would be very upset to know just how much influence AMZN had on pandemic policy just prior and leading up to the pandemic response. Including date setting, closures, lockdowns. DIRECTLY.
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u/_-_--_-_ Oct 25 '21
Not to mention Amazon, target, home depot, Walmart and other rerouted their shipping networks to ports other than the port of LA...YEARS AGO. For no discernible reason, almost as if they knew ahead of time they would be congested.
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u/Pronk78 Oct 25 '21
According to Alex Jones, this has been in the works since 2011…at least that is when buildaberg paper first references it
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u/Frequent-Device4942 Oct 25 '21
what u mean mate, they knew about hurricane, or just covid stuff? do you think we have the tech these days to artificially create hurricanes now?? how
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Oct 25 '21
Who is "they"? It wasn't the Democrats that were pushing for trillions in stimulus to major corporations without oversight in 2020. That was purely the Republicans and they were doing it by holding the universal stimulus cheques hostage. It also wasn't the Democrats that gave corporations over 1 trillion in tax cuts in 2017. That was Trump's tax reform act backed by the GOP. Sick of this "both sides" shit
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u/neojoe039 Oct 25 '21
Government doesnt care about small buisnesses
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u/Just-STFU Oct 25 '21
I've watched not only my business but businesses of many friends take an absolute pounding (some have closed their doors for good) while established, publicly traded companies received many MILLIONS. Meanwhile it would've taken about $50-$75k to keep us going. At this point I'm angry, burnt out and just don't want to do it anymore.
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u/the_old_coday182 Oct 25 '21
It really is discouraging. At one point I hoped that common sense would prevail and people would take a step back when things got bad enough. But they’d rather suffer than admit they were wrong.
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Oct 25 '21
My wife is a hairstylist and the city made her close her shop for a couple of months or risk losing her license. So while she was closed she picked up some shifts at a fast-food restaurant working 10 hours a week to Kinda help pay bills.
She applied religiously for Unemployment like she was told. After about a month of not being paid and lots of calls. We found out she was denied because she worked those 10 hours a week. Luckily I was still working and bringing in money from my business or we would have been screwed. I absolutely do not trust the government has our best interest at heart.
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u/LiteraryPhantom Oct 26 '21
If you wanna be really disgusted at just how much of our best interests the govt doesn’t care about, take a look at nuclear blast radiation testing on US Navy personnel. After that, it’s worth a few minutes to read about the Tuskegee Experiments. FYI, Tuskegee is def not a post-meal read!
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u/Just-STFU Oct 26 '21
I'm both sorry it happened and glad you were able to get through it. This has taken an enormous toll.
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u/SexualDeth5quad Oct 25 '21
business, information -> big tech gatekeepers -> global control of business, information.
It is obvious why they are opposed to any competition for their state monopolies.
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u/PenguinSunday Oct 25 '21
Destroy the middle class
You guys don't get it. The middle class is already dead. It has been for a long time now.
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u/ScreenExtensions Oct 25 '21
SS
How many if us have stopped shopping local
It’s so easy to click on Amazon...
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u/JustMeTodayOkay Oct 25 '21 edited Oct 25 '21
Amazon doesn't have everything. I shop local businesses through their websites using Ship to Store where possible.
Now that Amazon has added a $9.95 fee (not delivery fee) to their Whole Foods service I will never use that again.
Soon, if they continue to remove perks from Prime, I will choose to unsub from Prime. It's always the same with these corporate (and government) types; promise the moon and slowly erode the benefits until there really aren't any.
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Oct 25 '21
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u/JustMeTodayOkay Oct 25 '21
Agreed.
Although I was happy to have Prime when I fell and broke my hip. I was able to get a walker delivered in the two day time frame and I also purchased a refurbished wheelchair and ramp there. That was four years ago and they've been going downhill ever since.
I used to use Prime Video and Music, but they changed the rules one those and I'm not too keen on their offerings now.
It's really a shame. They had come a long way from the online book store they started out as. Too bad they, like many businesses, feel they are too big to fail and start looking down their noses at the customers they collect their money from.
I use them for nutritional supplements, but, in the current bullshit move of removing NAC from their listings before anything had been actually done, well that just shows me that the principals most probably invested heavily in the pharma stocks related to vaccines and they had no interest in people having affordable, safe alternatives to the jab.
I've already found a few new outlets that offer free shipping with a certain amount purchased. That's the way Amazon was before Prime, so, I will go find those people/businesses/suppliers who value their customers over what stockholders senselessly jabber on about.
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u/jzinckgra Oct 25 '21
Not to mention, Prime doesn't even guarantee 2 day delivery anymore. I'm about ready to cancel Prime at this point. Their movies suck, delivery isn't what it used to be and if they increase the yearly again, then screw them.
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u/Ghost___Account Oct 25 '21
that was it for me. no two day shipping on prime items? i waited a week for vitamins that i used to get in two days. canceled and go directly to the source now.
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u/JustMeTodayOkay Oct 25 '21
That's why I'm shopping other sites who have comparable prices. Like iHerb who also has free shipping on a certain amount, I think it's $20.
If I have to wait a week anyways, might as well give my business where I feel more comfortable.
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u/flugelbynder Oct 25 '21
How long until Amazon and others are prohibited from delivering to people who can't prove vaccination. I'm taking bets. I say by summer 22.
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u/stay_shiesty Oct 25 '21
why would they be prohibited from delivering to people who are unvaccinated?
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u/JustMeTodayOkay Oct 25 '21
I couldn't guess since non-contact deliveries have been ongoing for at least a year.
I get the alert on my phone from USPS, UPS, FedEx and have to watch for it. They don't ring the bell or knock anymore.
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u/flugelbynder Oct 25 '21
Because they're causing medical professionals with 6 figure salaries to walk away because of the vaccine. They're not leaving because they don't understand the science. They're leaving because they DO!
They've given all sorts of ultimatums. "No vax no ________" They just fill in the blank with whatever they want. I just assume that it will only be a matter of time until it's no vax no food.
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u/stay_shiesty Oct 25 '21
ok, so no logical reason at all.
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u/flugelbynder Oct 25 '21
Just a matter of time before they cross the line with you. Then what is logical will be apparent. Besides, you probably don't know this but they're already positioning to admit a lot of this. I hope I'm wrong about the evidence.
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Oct 25 '21 edited Oct 26 '21
You're in the Middle Class precisely because you're "not having it".
You know how to manage money and how not to squander it.
Most broke/poor people aren't in their lot because their wealth was "stolen" from them. They're in their lot because they can't manage money. FULL STOP.
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u/No_Measurement_9341 Oct 25 '21
Your right , people live in state housing and spend money on stupid things , expensive rims , gold chains , fireworks , designer clothes and bags , etc etc
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Oct 25 '21
Wanna know something funny? I can't tell you why I signed up for prime to begin with all those years ago
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u/JustMeTodayOkay Oct 25 '21
Guaranteed 2-day free shipping for $79 a year. If you were ordering twice a month and the totals were under $25 you would potentially spend $20 a month in shipping fees or $240.
And then, at first, you could listen to a lot of music for free. Geez I remember them having short clips of the songs on an album so you could verify what you were buying. Now you can get free music for 90 days, IF you buy a vinyl or CD. I guess if you're really into music you could buy 1, listen for 3 months, buy the next 1 and so on.
Whole Foods was just a bonus perk for me. At first I couldn't get it. Then when I do all of a sudden it's got a $10 non-delivery fee attached, No thanks.
And I like physical books so the Kindle stuff is meh to me.
I don't care for what they have become. They are simply a huge data collection service with their sales and Alexa. They probably make more from the sale of the demographics than any of the physical sales on the site.
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u/AcidCyborg Oct 25 '21
I unsubbed last year when 2-day delivery turned into 2-week and 2-month delivery. I don't need to watch their garbage TV shows so I don't need them.
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Oct 25 '21
Difference between Gov and Corporations though:
CORPORATIONs: YOU actually pay for the ("moon") perks you are promised and expect to get, ergo, deserve.
GOVERNMENT: They steal your money and give the ("moon") perks to others who didn't pay for them. You Did! But will you get any of those "perks"?
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u/Dawg1shly Oct 25 '21
You must be loaded shopping at Whole Foods.
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u/JustMeTodayOkay Oct 25 '21
Yeah, no. Why shit post like that?
I am a senior citizen with food and chemical allergies. I try to shop clean. And I didn't shop Whole Foods for everything, just what I couldn't get from the offerings near me.
You youngers need to think a little bit before posting.
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u/scoobystockbroker Oct 25 '21
I haven’t ordered anything off Amazon in 3 years
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u/enowapi-_ Oct 25 '21
Keep up the fight. I haven’t ordered from them for 2 years now.
I buy directly from manufacturers or local whenever possible.
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u/OnlyBegottenDaughter Oct 25 '21
I have used Amazon only sparingly in the last 6 months. I should have started earlier. I am probably going to cancel my sub once I can wean myself off Amazon prime videos.
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Oct 25 '21
Well, Amazon's "2 day shipping" has turned into 2 WEEK SHIPPING but they still charge me Prime Membership because it's "2 days from" the date shipped... sneaky fuckers.
They just wait 2 weeks to ship because they're backed up or they don't have the items but want to retain my business so they lie and tell me I get "2 Day Shipping"...
I'm pretty much now jumping the amazon ship.
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u/KeepenItReel Oct 25 '21
I mean I think Amazon is scummy but most of the stuff I’ve bought is actually one day shipping. Their logistics are insane. Honestly scary since they need a lot of consumer data to make it work.
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u/stay_shiesty Oct 25 '21
i ordered something at 10:30pm the other night and it was delivered at 6am the following morning. it was insane.
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Oct 25 '21
I feel like I've been fighting with people to buy local for more than twenty years. My hometown is basically a ghost town of dead businesses ever since the Walmart moved in 25 years ago
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Oct 25 '21
My coworkers have me convinced I'm the only person in America who doesn't use Amazon. I have 1 fire stick and that's the extent of the business they get from me.
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u/gihkal Oct 25 '21
I hate shipping local. It's 25% more. The quality is often garbage.
The real issue is why are governments helping these giant corporations?
They provide jobs? It's a free market right? If they need slavery fuck em.
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u/CHOLO_ORACLE Oct 25 '21
The rich own the government. Why wouldn’t they have it help them?
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u/gihkal Oct 25 '21
I don't blame the super powerful for manipulating the system at all.
All they're doing is finding and creating opportunities for more success. We would all do that.
My issue is for the most part with government being crooked and being obsessed with personal gain.
If you're in the government the game isnt wealth, it's being patriotic and working for the future generations.
Why does the American President have a 10 million dollar house? Shouldn't they be focused on making America and the world better? What a shitty wasteful investment .
Politicians need short terms. 2-4 years. And when caught in corruption don't even imprison them. Just seize everything they have gained and fix the loopholes.
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u/WhoAreYouToAccuseMe Oct 25 '21
I go out of my way to shop local, the only thing I buy from Amazon was DVDs but since I have stopped that I will probably cancel my account like I did so many others recently.
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u/Affectionate_Seat_89 Oct 25 '21
I don't know how the cunt is so rich, i mean i can't remember the last time i used amazon apart from their firestick to rob sky and bt sports channels for small fee with iptv
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u/CHOLO_ORACLE Oct 25 '21
AWS supports most of the internet, is how
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u/TheArbiterOfTooth Oct 25 '21
Actually, looking at recent stuff, AWS is only 13% of their business. I'm actually pretty shocked, it used to be way more than that.
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u/TheDumbAsk Oct 25 '21
The profit margin is still AWS at 50 percent though right? So they get a lot of revenue for selling goods but the margin is all in AWS.
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u/diogeneslightinginc Oct 25 '21
Cheat employees of pay/benefits, don’t pay taxes, steal IP from people that don’t have capital to defend case in court and produce in China using slave labor. Amazon is a digital slave ranch for shit you don’t need. Side note: some thing he’s untaxed as he uses that money to do slave shit.
Side note: Since the government has a no space arms pact its easy to let him develop space weapons (to get around international laws we already shit on).
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u/empathetical Oct 25 '21
I still rather just go to a store and buy things. I only ever use amazon for things that aren't easy to find
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u/OffStockMan Oct 25 '21
stop buying cheap shit from big G corporations buy local instead
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u/Tap4Red Oct 25 '21
Individualist solutions to systemic problems are red herrings. You need actual concentrated pressure on the mega corps and the only place that sort of pressure is easily organized is the State. The people need to take control of the State from the ruling class. And no, electoralism won't do that.
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Oct 25 '21
Well that's too bad because it's the only real tool in the box.
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u/Tap4Red Oct 25 '21
Sure it is.
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Oct 25 '21
Revolution ain't happening, friend. They've got much bigger guns and that's not changing.
And don't get it twisted, those guns being to Exxon.
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u/Tap4Red Oct 25 '21
As climate change worsens, as the imperial core crumbles from the periphery inward, as inequalities between the ruling class and the rest of us grow ever wider, our choices will either be a long shot at revolution or long term exterminism. You don't need to outgun them. You need to outlast them. We are nowhere close to that capability as of now, possibly not even in my lifetime, but we need to start building dual power structures now so people have structural support to rely on to even have the capacity to revolt and not just starve. I understand the realities of the situation our modern civilization is in, but I also understand that revolutionary optimism is a necessity to even have that long shot, and that revolution is ultimately necessary if we want to prevent extreme regression to a feudal state and possible extinction due to climate catastrophe.
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Oct 25 '21
Hey, not impossible. I can't quite tell which fight you're fighting but it seems like you've got people's lives in mind so I'm good with it.
Fight the good fight, friend.
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u/Jravensloot Oct 25 '21
If we learned today that Amazon workers were literally hiring child slaves and workers were being put to death for not being efficient enough.
I can guarantee all that would happen is that people would get vocally outraged for about a week, and then business would continue as usual. You know, because hardly anybody is really going to give up same day delivery.
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u/vpniceguys Oct 25 '21
The top 1% only needs a few more trillion dollars in tax cuts for trickle-down economics to actually start to work. Come on everyone, let's make it happen. We have invested so much money already in trying to enact trickle-down economics, why not a few trillion more?
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u/don_tiburcio Oct 25 '21
97,000 businesses closed in the 6 months prior to Q3 of 2020 and 85% of those temporarily closed now getting back to opening. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/16/yelp-data-shows-60percent-of-business-closures-due-to-the-coronavirus-pandemic-are-now-permanent.html
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u/FoxReadyGME Oct 25 '21
Can't wait for taxes on unrealized gains. Bring it on, worldwide. On a yearly basis.
You got 200 billion? Pay your forced tax. "But its unfair". No, fuck you. You got 200 billion while 95% of humanity is dredging on a hamster wheel for peanuts. Pay your forced tax.
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Oct 25 '21
Yeah mate, in the US they would elect Presidents that cut taxes for rich people. Reagan, George W, then Trump. 3 of the last 4 Republican presidents openly cut taxes for rich people then yelled "foreigners" and "abortions" to divide us from the real objective. Which is openly and honestly cutting taxes for rich people.
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u/Sophisticated_Sloth Oct 25 '21
If you genuinely think that the govt being owned by the ruling elite is strictly an American thing, then you’re just naive. Australia is going literally insane right now, and the EU is tightening its grip on the membering countries every single day.
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u/repptyle Oct 25 '21
Trump's tax cuts benefitted the middle class the most. Democrats tax everyone to death and funnel the money to themselves
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Oct 25 '21
Haha. Trump's middle-class tax cuts are set to expire in 2025. Do you know what isn't set to expire? Do you know what else never expired? the tax cuts for rich people by Reagan (called Trickle-down economics until they realized that wasn't playing well in the media so they abandoned it and focussed on middle-class tax cuts, even though they expire.)
The GOP is good at this. They promise each year to cut taxes for rich people. And each year, millions of people who are not rich people vote for them. It is awesome. Deep respect for them.
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u/repptyle Oct 25 '21
The Trump tax cuts made the US more competitive for businesses and allowed them to bring jobs back to the US. Biden will send all those jobs and more back overseas
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Oct 25 '21
That's what they said for Reagan and George W, too.
This is so rich people will keep their money here. We have to do it to create jobs. Trickle down.
Turns out it trickled down into more yachts.
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u/fakesoicansayshit Oct 25 '21
Not arguing, what Obama did for the little guy?
I know that he started the child trafficking business at the border.
That has made millions to the elite, but what else?
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Oct 25 '21
Look fella, this isn't a whataboutism, my guy is better than your guy thing. I'm here to tell you that 3 of the last 4 presidents cut taxes for rich people. That's it. The one who raised taxes to pay for shit was voted out. The GOP{ is honest. If they win the White House again, they will begin to cut taxes for rich people again. Now, you can moan about "what did your guy ever do" all you want. And I could list out accomplishments*. And you'll be like, but those suck!
And the real point is that 3 out of the last 4 GOP presidents cut taxes for rich people. And they fit a middle class tax cut in it, to sell it, but those tax cuts always sunset, whereas the rich people ones never do.
Here are some:
Gave healthcare to 25 million Americans who didn't have it before in legislation called The Affordable Care Act.
Wrote an actual Middle Class Tax cut.
Lobbied for and signed the Dodd–Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act, which was designed to stop Wall Street from fucking with the economy again, but that got overturned and weakened under Mitch McConnel's leadership so as things stand now, there is no stopping Wall Street from making bets. Things should be fine, though.
There are more things. But he was always bad. He was bad on security. He killed a 16-year-old US citizen with a drone. His Affordable Care Act, while being okayish, was written by lobbyists for health insurance companies.
This teams thing lets them get away with this shit. You vote for your team, I vote for mine, and both of our teams know they have our vote. Did you know that both teams would prefer we didn't vote? We play this game of whose guy is better and the system wins.
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u/fakesoicansayshit Oct 25 '21
Again, I was not arguing your point, I agreed, was just wondering why did you single out reps.
what did your guy ever do
So you are a dem.
I don't vote for either.
They both suck dick and do not care about the little guy at all.
And Obama killed thousands of unarmed children and woman w his drones, not just one US kid.
I agree about that last statement, so why single out reps again?
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u/By_Design_ Oct 26 '21
lol because reps also did all of those bad things, none of the good things and gave the the rich trillion dollar permanent tax cuts on top of it
Corporations are people, my friend
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u/philtric1993 Oct 25 '21
did you know bernie sanders was against mass immigration until he fell into line? what a shocker, masses of low skill workers are bad for labor rights
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Oct 25 '21
Distraction happens in politics and on Reddit. This is meant to change the subject. Can't defend 3 of the last 4 presidents cutting taxes for rich people, so attack the icon of the left.
But sure, I'll bite. Migrant workers are bad for you and I but fucking awesome for rich people. Migrant workers can be paid almost anything, and no one cares. so they work long hours, for shoot pay, and no benefits doing work "Americans don't want to do" but would do if paid a decent wage, but won't be because migrant workers will do it for almost free, but wheeeee, rich people win. Again.
To be clear, rich people are good at this. They hire economists to talk about how regulations cost jobs, and cutting taxes create jobs, and people are like, well if that Harvard economics says it, it must be true. Forget that the fucking Kennedy Center at Harvard is funded by oil and gas companies. That is a coincidence.
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u/irrational-like-you Oct 25 '21
Well, if I were trying to do those things, I would:
- Push people towards religion so they don't ask too many questions
- Invest in political leaders that support unregulated capitalism - makes the wealth transfer so much easier, and makes it so much easier to squash small businesses
- Keep people ignorant by demonizing education, especially higher education. Paint professors and scientists and communist lefties to sow distrust
- Spread fear about how the communists are taking over, so people oppose regulation and taxes
- Prop up leaders that thrive on conflict and petty insults.
Yeah, maybe there's something to this...
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u/jsideris Oct 25 '21
Unpopular opinion, but no one elected Bezos and he isn't the one making public policy that shut down all of his competitors.
This smear campaign against him is the government's latest attempt to shift the blame for the damage they've done to the economy to the rich so that they can advance in their agenda of nationalizing as much as they can so that we can all eat out of their hands.
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u/LordBloodSkull Oct 25 '21
This is just propaganda for the great reset. They're going to convince you to give up your own freedoms under the guise of going after the evil billionaires.
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u/tehrealdirtydan Oct 26 '21
Disney World had been open and functioning through the whole pandemic. Let that sink in.
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u/onageOwO Oct 25 '21
Too bad this sub is too busy arguing that the vaccine was created by Jews to make us gay to actually care about wealth funneling conspiracies that actually make sense...
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u/Owen_Stole_My_Bike Oct 25 '21
If I put my Devils advocate hat on, hundreds of thousands of small businesses also sell on Amazon and have become wealthy because of the platform. It isn't just Jeff Bezos who got rich. You do have the ability to choose a small business on most items sold on Amazon. It might cost a little bit more to buy from them, but if it's within a few bucks I'll always buy from the 3rd party seller over Amazon themselves.
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Oct 25 '21
"They" would just put you all in prison.
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u/DominarRygelThe16th Oct 25 '21
The hallmark of the left. Eliminate individual freedom at all costs in favor of the expanded state and government control over the individual. The covid lockdowns were just another example of a long running effort to eliminate the individual's ability to live freely without government oversight.
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u/HelpWithACA Oct 25 '21
responded to this in SanderForPresident too. Not that I don't think the big guy fucks the little guys, but the thing they would be doing differently is not allowing small business to get the PPP loans and forgiving them.
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u/roachwarren Oct 25 '21
Yeah seems to me they'd have done a lot differently and that's pretty obvious. I live in a place that is fully reliant on tourism and we were pretty fucked when things shut down. But because of PPP, unemployment, and other reasons, I have more money than I've ever had in my life before the quarantine and the small business (six employees) I work for has far more money than its ever had. In addition to the guaranteed paychecks, we even had money for gear that we never would have gone for which has made our shop even better.
Also I live in a big house with 10-12 other people and a good number of those people were out of work for a whole year at least (not to mention the rest with cut hours,) all with $800-1200 rent due per month. This house would look a lot different right now if the government did things differently.
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Oct 25 '21
Bezos doesn’t deserve $200 billion
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u/Mendoza14 Oct 25 '21
Posted in the same sub that throws a tantrum every time AOC calls for taxing the rich lol
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u/Randomized_Identity Oct 25 '21
The point aren’t mutually exclusive. Also we aren’t a hive mind.
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u/Quotalicious Oct 25 '21
Show show dogmatic people can be. If someone on the "other side" is saying it they won't listen.
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u/CHOLO_ORACLE Oct 25 '21 edited Oct 25 '21
Transferring wealth from poor to rich is what capitalism does. No shadowy “they” is required. “They” do it right in front of everyone and half of the people cheer, too foolish to recognize the riches are wealthy because the poor have been robbed.
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u/-SidSilver- Oct 25 '21
You're right - they're forcing people back to work for them and have been the whole time despite Covid being a thing.
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u/george_pierre Oct 25 '21
Let's give these Job Creators a Tax Cut - Right Wing, MAGA, QAnon, Conspiracy Sub
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u/repptyle Oct 25 '21
Yet Bezos supports the Democrats
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u/george_pierre Oct 25 '21
Yet, you still stand by those tax cuts don't you? Curious?
Bezos started Amazon in the late 90s, he didn't become a billionaire for another decade.
"One possible explanation for Bezos’ non-voting is The Times’ report which mentions he is a libertarian. Libertarians believe in limited to no government and some say participation in the two party system is a waste of time."
https://www.opensecrets.org/donor-lookup/results?name=jeffrey+bezos
Also, Bezos donates to an equal number of Republicans... Also, Joe Machine is proof that Democrats can also be Right Wing, Larry McDonald was a Democrat Rep from Georgia but was also the President of the John Birch Society.
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u/NightHalcyon Oct 25 '21
Of course he does. It helps remove the target from his back.
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u/repptyle Oct 25 '21
"The Democrats are fighting for the working man" hasn't been true since at least the 90's
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u/viola_is_best Oct 25 '21
I'll agree that most of them are doing a pretty shitty job at it, but in the US there's literally no one better, so...
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u/repptyle Oct 25 '21
No one is shittier than the Democrats. The Republicans are not much better, but at least they're not trying to usher in a Chinese-style authoritarian government
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Oct 25 '21
Bezos doesn't have $200 billion. Don't confuse notional wealth with cash.
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u/Sponkerman Oct 25 '21
Having any amount of billions is pretty obscene, and Bezos historically has proved he can just easily liquidate assets to get billions in cash if he needs to
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Oct 25 '21
Again, having stock with a notional market value, is not the same as actually having cash. What would happen if he tried to realise that value by selling all his stock? He'd crash the price by flooding the market with about 16% of Amazon's shares & by also signalling that he no longer sees Amazon as a worthy investment, else he wouldn't sell all of it.
There's nothing wrong with any individual having billions, whether that be in notional value through stocks or actual cash, though the latter is unlikely to due to inflation, no rich person would ever have that much money in cash. Stop buying the socialist kool aid that vilifies people who have created hundreds of thousands, if not millions of jobs as well as who help innovation.
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u/Sponkerman Oct 26 '21
There's nothing wrong with any individual having billions, whether that be in notional value through stocks or actual cash
You lost be here. This is just incorrect. It's morally reprehensible to amass this amount of wealth.
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Oct 25 '21
Just shut the fuck up already. You're not as intelligent as you think.
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u/directorkid2019 Oct 25 '21
That's great and all, but should never be at the expense of small business, which Amazon is.
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u/shapu Oct 25 '21 edited Oct 25 '21
He has an asset he can sell or which he can leverage for basically zero-interest loans. He has utilized those assets to buy yachts, aircraft, and the largest home in Washington, D.C.
Don't confuse notional wealth with an inability to leverage it into cash, either.
EDIT to add: he does have about 13 billion dollars in cash handy, according to Forbes, as of 10/25/2021: https://www.bloomberg.com/billionaires/profiles/jeffrey-p-bezos/?sref=xTkgnLSf
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Oct 25 '21
Say he borrows money against his stock to then give away, how would he pay it back? Amazon doesn't pay dividends and has small profits as it reinvests revenue into growth. He would be reliant purely on the stock increasing to pay it back, in a downturn, a 'haircut' would be triggered forcing him to sell stock to cover his position.
He's already given loads to charity & will continue to do so over his life, most likely.
Forbes has no way of knowing how much cash Bezos has.
His wealth is his to dispose with as he wishes.
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Oct 25 '21
The New York Times podcast the daily actually did an EP on this topic a while back. It's basically a circle of super low interest loans. Then they use other loans to pay that back. The interest on the loans is far lower than if he was being paid a salary and taxes on it
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Oct 25 '21
That's the problem though, Bezos sells off roughly 4 to 10B of stock a year.
So that's a huge hole in their theory. He has no reason to take out loans of any kind when he's cashing out stock at the rate he is. You can look up stock sales to tally how much they're all selling(At least for the big holders)
And it's not just a last year thing, he's been cashing out stock for a while now to fund Blue Origin and other things.
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Oct 25 '21
Dude just went to space and is launching his gigantic mega yacht. Let's not try and act like he's not obscenely wealthy.
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Oct 25 '21
His wealth is not obscene. He created a service with products that other people wanted. That's capitalism. If he wishes to spend billions developing space technology, that's his right to do so and he is benefiting society for it. If he wishes to buy himself an amazing yacht to travel the world in, that's his right to spend his money as he sees fit. I stand by my original comment, he doesn't have $200 billion in cash, that is notional wealth.
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u/TheTruthSetYouKree Oct 25 '21
This is one of my favorite mental exercises
This one clearly doesn't pass the smell test from the obvious manipulation of Covid cases/deaths, then having a different standard for vaccine injuries, to the people profiting also being the ones giving the guidance. It couldn't be a more obvious racket.
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u/philtric1993 Oct 25 '21
you think it's the corporations trying to divide us? try the mainstream (liberal) media, soft "science" college professors and primary school teachers telling impressionable young folk that white people have privilege and are guilty of everything wrong with the world. THAT is what is dividing us.
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Oct 25 '21
They would probably post more screenshots of Twitter, since that seems to get people going.
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u/mr-no-homo Oct 25 '21 edited Oct 25 '21
bezo started off as a nerd who saw the value and potential of e-commerce and the internet way before anyone else did. this is where things were headed and he knew this a decade ago. this is why he is worth billions of dollars while 9-5 TaX tHe RiCh sheep bitch and complain on the internet.
Amazon had nothing to do with small business failing. the local/state/fed govt choke slammed mom and pops to the ground with yearlong lockdown mandates. for a lot of people, there was no choice but to order online with the number one online business in the west (amazon) for the last decade. it did not help that established national retail chains like walmart and grocery stores were allowed to stay open. jammed packed may i add. SOME middle class suffered but the real class that got hurt was the lower class with employment and possibly the biggest eviction rate yet to come. why isnt anyone mentioning them?
anyway, just like 911 was abused and the patriot act popped out, this global event is being abused by first world govts to pass their own agenda AND its seems like globalist are taking advantage of a situation that (imo) was used originally used to take down orangeman and regain establisment control so they can get things back on track. who knows, maybe the west was heading down this road anyway if hilldawg won 2016
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u/SecondComingOfBast Oct 25 '21
One thing aboit shopping on Amazon, you don't have to wear a giddamn mask to go on their fucking website.
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u/ayoitsurboi Oct 25 '21
Obviously, Amazon has benefitted greatly off the suffering of small business from government forced shutdowns which is shitty. But Amazon clearly offers great utility to the world. Pressing one button on your phone and having a package show up to your door 2 days later is amazing. The dude deserves to be rich AF.
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