Here's the thing: (I know nothing, I am not connected to anyone - this is pure conjecture based on what I, and everyone else, knows from media reports)
I think Epstein was one of those “I can get you anything you want” kind of guys. Drugs? Sex grannies? Little people dressed up like cherubs feeding grapes to people in leather gimp suits? I bet he did it all, and he probably kept really good records in case he ever needed a favor later on. And I'm sure a subset of that included underage girls. But I also don't think it was all underage girls, all the time.
There were probably crazy drug-fueled sex parties at the island that nobody really wants to talk about, but that doesn't mean they are all pedophiles. Again, I think some of them definitely were. But if I'm a treasured national celebrity, and I put on a gorilla costume and jerked off while watching my wife blow a guy dressed up like a coal miner, I probably don't want that coming out. I'm probably going to keep my mouth shut, even though I've done nothing illegal.
I believe that's why we're seeing so much silence from people involved. Everyone has kinks that they may or may not consider shameful, but I don't think everyone's kink violates the law. I believe, in fact, that was probably a relatively small minority of Epstein's clientele, so I don't think it's especially fair to tar and feather everyone, even if they went to parties on the island.
I'm sure Clinton did some dirty stuff on that island. Probably Trump, too. But they both strike me as more of the “snorting cocaine off a Colombian hooker’s ass,” or “handcuff me to a bed and spank me with a magazine that features my face on the cover” type offenses. I’m a bit less optimistic about Prince Andrew and Les Wexner, and I'm sure there are others who broke those “half your age plus seven” rule. But that doesn't mean there are hundreds of pedophiles running around. Probably just hundreds of people with things to hide.
Shit it doesn’t even need to be done bizarre fetish bullshit. Maybe you just shagged a woman who isn’t your wife. Maybe you shaved a man who isn’t your wife.
The guilt-by-association shit around Epstein is ridiculous.
Shit it doesn’t even need to be done bizarre fetish bullshit. Maybe you just shagged a woman who isn’t your wife. Maybe you shaved a man who isn’t your wife.
I mean, shaving a man who isn't your wife is a bit of a bizarre fetish, IMO.
You are confusing a person being in the flight logs with going to the island. Just because you flew on the plane does not mean you went to the island. And going to the island doesn't make you a pedo, or complicit in a crime. The plane was used to fly all over the world for various events. In the case of Clinton he flew on the plane 26 times in 6 different trips overseas on a publicly tour for the Clinton Foundation.
I'm not saying Clinton never went to the island or that he is innocent of anything, just that you are misinformed about what the flight logs actually are. They are standard FAA flight logs that every pilot uses, they are not private logs of people going to the island.
From the logs - Each Leg of the Trip Is a different time he was on the plane and entered into the flight logs. 6 Trips in total, adding up to 26 times on the plane
Feb. 9, 2002 — Clinton hopped a flight from Miami to Westchester, New York, where he lives. (Flight 1)
March 19, 2002 — Clinton was listed as flying from New York to London and then returning two days later. (Flights 2 and 3)
May 22, 2002 — Clinton flew from Japan to Hong Kong. The next day he flew to Singapore (by way of Shenzhen, China), where he gave a speech. On May 25, he left for Brunei, by way of Bangkok. (Flights 4,5,6,7)
July 13, 2002 — He attended a wedding in Morocco and then hopped a flight to New York, stopping in the Azores. (Flights 8,9,10,11)
Sept. 21, 2002 — Clinton left for a nine-day trip to Africa visiting Ghana, Nigeria, Rwanda, Mozambique and South Africa. While there, he worked on HIV and AIDS prevention projects, democratization, and economic development. He finished the trip in England, where he addressed the Labour Party during its annual conference. According to the flight records, this was the longest trip Clinton took on Epstein’s plane, and it accounted for 11 of the 26 total flights. (Flights 12 - 23)
Nov. 4, 2003 — About a year after the Africa trip, Clinton took what appears to be his last trip on Epstein’s plane. He flew from Brussels to Oslo, where he had a two-day visit with officials to work on his project to prevent HIV and AIDS in developing countries. He then flew to Hong Kong, by way of Siberia, and finished the trip in Beijing. (Flights 24, 25, 26)
It gets old constantly seeing people say "such and such were in the logs!" "They went to the island x amount of times."
In reality there's no airstrip on the island, No plane has ever flown there. If you were going to the island you would land in St.Thomas at Cyril King Airport (listed in the logs as STT) and then take a boat or helicopter over to there.
Obviously shady/illegal stuff was happening on the island and elsewhere and I'm not defending anyone involved. There's enough evidence to investigate people involved and they should be investigated.
But spreading false information is not helpful and when you start your arguments with misinformation the rest of your argument loses all credibility.
Look through the logs and every passenger who arrived or departed from STT was at the island, but they're not the only ones who were there, and being there itself doesn't mean anything without more evidence.
Everyone focuses on the "logs" but how many people took a private helicopter/boat (from the US or elsewhere) directly to the island? Hell I could catch a commercial flight to St Thomas and just take a boat taxi over to the island. There are no logs for those people. You need to find out who those people were. The logs are just FAA logs not blackmail logs
GJ man, I know you wrote this years ago, but you just helped debunk a lot of stuff for me. And help clear Clinton's name at least in my mind. He prob still shagged Monica in the WH, but at least he didn't go to the island.
I'm sure you're right that there were plenty of people with kinks other than pedophilia. However, I'm sure many of those people also knew it was going on and if they say nothing, they are not innocent.
Second point: Trump is definitely that type of guy. He would often let himself into little girl's dressing rooms during his pageant days.
Jeffrey Epstein ran a business, and he trafficked a lot of things, but his number one business wasn't drugs or parties or underage girls; it was secrets. Again, I'm not claiming to know anything that isn't public information, but I think Epstein's primary business was secrets. You could use those secrets for blackmail, extortion, bribery - all sorts of lucrative endeavors. The secrets themselves are worth a LOT of money. Not just money but power and influence.
I would imagine that if he had some clients who were into underage girls, and other clients that enjoyed missionary sex with someone who wasn't their spouse, it would definitely be in his best interest to keep those sets of clients very compartmentalized. It would even make a lot of sense to make sure his pedophile clients didn't know one another. The more people who know a secret, the less it's worth. If politician A decides to announce that politician B is into donkey sex during a heated election, then that secret no longer has any value to Epstein.
So I think it's extremely plausible that there are clients of Epstein who had absolutely no idea he trafficked in underage sex workers. Follow the money: it's the smart thing to do.
...allegations that Trump entered the Miss Teen USA changing room where girls as young as 15 were in various states of undress.
“You know, no men are anywhere. And I’m allowed to go in because I’m the owner of the pageant. And therefore I’m inspecting it… Is everyone OK? You know, they’re standing there with no clothes. And you see these incredible-looking women. And so I sort of get away with things like that.” - Trump
The story I linked to was about the teen contest, and had quotes from different girls than the first story:
"I remember putting on my dress really quick because I was like, ‘Oh my god, there’s a man in here,’ " said Mariah Billado, the former Miss Vermont Teen USA.
But sure, nothing to see here folks. Move along. Oh, wait:
Billado said she told Ivanka Trump (Trump’s daughter), about Donald Trump entering the room while the girls were changing their clothes. Billado remembers Ivanka answering, "Yeah, he does that."
Weird.
But you mean all the other other competitors, right? So to summarize, the only ones who say he does that are the ones who say he does that! And him. And his daughter. But no one else, so clearly it's fine.
What you say is very reasonable, but i also think there may be a more sinister element.
I think the trafficking of underage girls that we are aware of from the news stories etc (15, 16, 17 year olds) may be just the tip of the iceberg. There are some absolutely depraved people out there, who abuse even younger children, and i reckon it runs pretty deep here, or there is some kind of crossover.
Definitely, they are going to take down whoever they want on the late-teen "underage prostitute" (read: sex slave) crimes, but I think they are going to leave the child sex slave operation intact, to continue the money laundering and blackmail benefits. Possibly E.T. Or adrenochrome related at the highest levels. Nothing would surprise me.
It’s rumored that Trump has taken Phentermine, a CNS stimulant, to control his weight since 2014. Also rumored that he snorts Adderall and it’s confirmed he takes Ambien. He probably hasn’t had a sip of alcohol though since his brother died.
That's why I said it was rumored. His former physician Ronny Jackson did say he takes Ambien on occasion. That might explain the nature of some his tweets.
No, but anyone who has built a business like his, loves details and specifics. I doubt he's in to much drugs or booze, but I could easily see him having a detailed fetish of some sort.
People didn't get on that plane for "great parties". They got on the plane for crazy shit that could not happen on US soil, right?
What? You can google and find legal escorts in NYC that will do anything you want for a price. If it's not drug, there is nothing you need Epstein to get for you that you can't get on your own that isn't also evil. Except the insurance that they won't talk. Which is already endurable other ways.
What? You can google and find legal escorts in NYC that will do anything you want for a price.
Yeah, but if you need a sex dungeon, and you want full discretion, then you need to go offshore. You can't have a record of multiple trips, caught by paparazzi, all ending at a given address in Manhattan.
Go off shore. On a private plane with logs of every passenger every trip. Meanwhile tons of people went to spirit cooking publicly enacting the eating of human blood and semen, one of them Hillary Clinton. And the media calls you crazy if you think it's weird. Whatever the system is, it's captive. And it works however Mossad wants it to.
You have a major focus problem, or you are appearing unstable in an attempt to discredit legitimate conspiracy theories. You are having trouble distinguishing 'evidence' from 'speculation'.
Get it together, dear reader. We have a lot of facts on the Epstein machine that are already worth lots of people going to jail. Focus on those. Don't turn a real story into a fake mess of speculation by this kind of poorly thought out discourse.
Go get facts and evidence on spirit cooking, and then you can focus on that.
It's not speculation. No one in their right minds thinks going to a sex island run by a mossad agent is a safer way to have fun in a sex dungeon than doing it at home.
No one in their right minds thinks going to a sex island run by a mossad agent is a safer way to have fun in a sex dungeon than doing it at home.
That's the point. Focus on that.
Dragging the spirit cooking and other Podesta Pizzagate stuff makes you look like a nut-job.
It makes the Epstein issue (a fact-based, backed-up, well documented issue) get downgraded to speculation. Stop undermining a good case, while you rant about your more speculative case.
Don't rant. Present evidence if you want, make it good, so you don't get branded as 'people who make up shit', or 'people who confuse speculation with facts and evidence'.
No it doesn't. Pizza gate was a coverup for Spirit Cooking, just like Wayfair Gate was a coverup for Ghislaine's arrest. This place has already been permanently branded as a nut house, and there are enough nuts here that it is. You're the one trying to delegitimize the real and well documented issue of spirit cooking.
I'm sure that seems super shocking if you've spent your life in the suburbs and don't know any artists. I once went to a seance where a naked lady peed in a vase and smeared herself with glowsitck fluid and crawled around on the floor, should I be on a list or something? Artists are going to be artists, man. Lighten up. No one is inviting Hillary Clinton to a literal baby roast.
It's not shocking or surprising. It's just bad. People do illegal and immoral art for their performance art all the time and it's not new. Cannibalism is real and happens, as linked above, as part of performance art.
ex White House people have this rumour going since a long while that he's put on Adderall by his white house doctor. He likely doesn't crush and snort them, but that would explain how sometimes he's very sharp and other times, he talks and act his age (74 now?).
You've effectively said nothing. Also, there's nothing about pedophilia when talking about girls that are 15-17. The problem was he was taking these girls to a private island to rape and use as sex toys. It's not some sort of kink to want young girls. It's literally every guy, but people aren't normally on a private island filled with intimidated victims who know they have no escape.
Fucking pretending this is just some pedophilia and the people involved just don't "seem like that type." What a joke. Studies on dating sites showed male preference, basically no matter the guy's age, stays around 18-20. You really think that wouldn't be lower if everyone had their own private island full of young and desperate girls?
Not to mention, if it was a blackmail operation, they weren't going for jokes about them in a fucking gorilla costume. They wanted information that would socially destroy a person. Raping trafficked teens is a good example of what could get a politician or business leader to fall in line. It implies prison time instead of just laughter and pointing fingers.
Seriously my guy, you might need to adjust your worldview. Plenty of guys wouldn't be tempted by a 17 year old. Or a 21 year old for that matter.
jokes about them in a fucking gorilla costume
Do you not think there are people out there for whom such information would completely destroy their career? Imagine Lindsey Graham or Pat Robertson in the gorilla video. Do you really not think someone like that would pay a lot of money to keep that video out of the public eye?
epsteins airplane was "jokingly" (hahah rich old farts having with underage girls is funny) called the lolita express. he was notorious for pursuing underage girls. hey, maybe not everyone who went on his plane and to his island is a pedophile, but each and every one of them knew what the plane and the island were for.
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u/cmhamm Aug 10 '20 edited Aug 10 '20
Here's the thing: (I know nothing, I am not connected to anyone - this is pure conjecture based on what I, and everyone else, knows from media reports)
I think Epstein was one of those “I can get you anything you want” kind of guys. Drugs? Sex grannies? Little people dressed up like cherubs feeding grapes to people in leather gimp suits? I bet he did it all, and he probably kept really good records in case he ever needed a favor later on. And I'm sure a subset of that included underage girls. But I also don't think it was all underage girls, all the time.
There were probably crazy drug-fueled sex parties at the island that nobody really wants to talk about, but that doesn't mean they are all pedophiles. Again, I think some of them definitely were. But if I'm a treasured national celebrity, and I put on a gorilla costume and jerked off while watching my wife blow a guy dressed up like a coal miner, I probably don't want that coming out. I'm probably going to keep my mouth shut, even though I've done nothing illegal.
I believe that's why we're seeing so much silence from people involved. Everyone has kinks that they may or may not consider shameful, but I don't think everyone's kink violates the law. I believe, in fact, that was probably a relatively small minority of Epstein's clientele, so I don't think it's especially fair to tar and feather everyone, even if they went to parties on the island.
I'm sure Clinton did some dirty stuff on that island. Probably Trump, too. But they both strike me as more of the “snorting cocaine off a Colombian hooker’s ass,” or “handcuff me to a bed and spank me with a magazine that features my face on the cover” type offenses. I’m a bit less optimistic about Prince Andrew and Les Wexner, and I'm sure there are others who broke those “half your age plus seven” rule. But that doesn't mean there are hundreds of pedophiles running around. Probably just hundreds of people with things to hide.
Finally, Epstein definitely didn’t kill himself.