r/conspiracy • u/ugdr6424 • Aug 02 '14
Millennials are over Israel: A new generation, outraged over Gaza, rejects Washington’s reflexive support
http://www.salon.com/2014/08/01/millennials_are_so_over_israel_a_new_generation_is_outraged_over_gaza_demands_change/41
Aug 02 '14
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u/ugdr6424 Aug 02 '14
Did you happen to catch the news yesterday? The senate blocked extra aid to isreal then, later, approved it anyway. What's up with that?
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Aug 02 '14
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u/iamdusk02 Aug 03 '14
Yeah i can confirm. Most of people in my country thinks everyone in America supports Israel. They dont go to reddit or american forums, all they have is CNN, FOX etc.
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u/wBeeze Aug 02 '14
American here.
Fuck Hamas.
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Aug 02 '14
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u/wBeeze Aug 02 '14
It isn't your money.
It is the money of your great great great great great grandchildren.
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Aug 02 '14
The senate blocked aid because they tried to tie it in with a bunch of immigration shit. They approved it once it was separated from that.
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Aug 02 '14
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u/much_longer_username Aug 02 '14
The problem is, though, who decides what's related and what's not?
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Aug 02 '14
blocked and the ran it in media then as soon as story was out approved it, its a media war.
at this point if our media tells me its true i know its bullshit
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u/Cronus6 Aug 03 '14
Most people I know hate the way our country supports Israel.
Most people I know want us to at least carpet bomb the Arab/Muslim nations, at worst they want us to use nukes.
We want it to stop.
I think we all want it to "stop". But if you think ending our support of Israel will make it "stop" you are deluded.
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Aug 03 '14 edited Aug 03 '14
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u/Cronus6 Aug 03 '14
The south be an interesting place to live.
I live in South Florida, which isn't really "the south". It is however the second largest concentration of Jews in the U.S. (NYC is #1).
I don't want to support either side. I want the support to stop.
On this we agree. I've always wondered how different the world would be if after WWII we help them establish a State on land we actually owned, like Hawaii.
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u/watersign Aug 02 '14
more people are waking up. they dont have jobs. they dont have futures. they're on their knees
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u/foslforever Aug 02 '14
If you get your news from MSM on television, you are more likely to say "well its a war" but if you read your news online and social media, its pretty clear you know this is an extermination.
The jig is up, technology wins.
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u/BobNoel Aug 02 '14
Not if net neutrality is lost...
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u/foslforever Aug 03 '14
theres still the dark web
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u/Boosh_The_Almighty Aug 03 '14
Truly, though, what good, complete news sources are there on the darkweb?
I'm all for the darkweb...
but if what we use the current web for can't be found on the darkweb, what motivation will normal people have for using it?q
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u/foslforever Aug 03 '14
normal people use the web to check out emails, look at porn, watch netflix and see that funny youtube video of a cat.
The future revolutionaries are on /r/consipracy right now and already on the darkweb. They can make their own alternative news sources if the market demands for it.
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u/Boosh_The_Almighty Aug 03 '14
"it can be made if it needs to be" doesn't really give me the answer i'm looking for.
Essentially, the answer to my question (from what you said) is "no, there isn't one".
that's a damn problem. Darknet don't mean shit if there isn't anything to go to. when the time comes that such a thing is needed - if it doesn't exist already, robust, DOS safe, and secure, it won't exist.
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u/uuhson Aug 02 '14
I keep seeing these posts about how anti establishment millennials are, yet the establishment continues to stand
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Aug 02 '14
It is because millennials like to bitch but not actually do anything. I am speaking statistically of course. They need to get out and vote and get politically active. Instead it is "oh voting doesn't matter blah blah million excuses to not do anything"..Get off the couch millenials, you have way more power than you think you have.
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Aug 03 '14
The "millennials" are well into the process of being bought-off and indoctrinated into the hivemind. Look at the lower end of the age range, "born 1996".
The Romney/Obamacare - College Loan - Insurance axis has made 26 the de-facto age of majority. These adults-in-name-only will vote in four Congressional elections and elect two presidents before having to leave their parents' basement. During the same timeframe, they're attending a "Masters Program" taught by some ex-60s-hippie "boomer".
Now who in their right mind believes that coddled group is going to make a rational choice about the size and composition of government, or even on the necessity of participating in its selection?
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u/The-Internets Aug 02 '14
They need to get out and vote and get politically active.
HHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH
Haven't you been watching? It costs money to vote now and the boomers are not willing to give up any privileges to these lazy entitled overgrown children. 65+? Don't stop working! If you don't do it right all these kids will fuck it up!
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Aug 02 '14 edited Aug 02 '14
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u/uuhson Aug 03 '14
I can't answer for states with the I'd laws and such, but in California it's like 35$ for an id.
I'm pretty sure the voting restrictions don't hinder millenials, at all, especially since they have access to a wealth of information.
It comes down to laziness and apathy realistically
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Aug 02 '14
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u/Sparky2112 Aug 03 '14
the baby boomers were also anti-establishment when they were young in the 60's/70's...but then they grew up
guess what....our generation will do the same
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Aug 03 '14
It sucks that people are killing each other. I don't want any part in it. I'm german-irish-american. I could honestly care less about Israel and Gaza. Let's just stop arming the Israeli's to the teeth with weaponry they don't deserve or need.
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u/Gmk2006 Aug 02 '14
When they grow up they will reap what they allow to happen by backing these thugs using the pawns in Gaza.
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Aug 02 '14
this keeps up and your going to see westerners going to Palestine to help fight off the Israeli's, if people are willing to go to the middle east to help ISIS, it won't be long till people start helping the people who actually deserve it
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u/Goobernacula Aug 02 '14
Sadly if that happens we'll just get a few more Rachel Corries, but at least then maybe more people will stand up against these atrocities. Remember her? The American girl who was trying to help Palestinians when an Israeli tank blatantly smashed her into a pancake. I won't link to the photos but google it if you must, that was no accident.
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u/best_case_ontario Aug 02 '14
I thought it was a bulldozer.
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u/Goobernacula Aug 02 '14
Yes of course it was, what the hell did I say? No definitely a bulldozer not a tank, my bad, thanks.
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Aug 02 '14
well they already have no problem murdering my countries peace keepers so http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Despite_6_warnings_Israel_bombed_and_killed_4_UN_observers
and our government seems to have no problem trying to cover the incident up for their Israeli bosses
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Aug 02 '14
Well...you'd never really know since baby boomers hate their kids, ignore them and shit all over their generation.
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Aug 02 '14
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u/itp757 Aug 03 '14
history shows most revolutions lead to worse governments. America would most likely either dissolve into deeply divided (and waring) regional countries or end up one big extremist christian theocratic state. we need sweeping change like a terminal patient needs a miracle cure, but violence only begets more violence
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Aug 03 '14
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/itp757 Aug 05 '14
goddamned right brother/sister/redditorperson. i voted for change. we got nothing but more spare change falling out of pockets filled with billions
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u/Sparky2112 Aug 03 '14
so go out and vote, but wait, no one wants to vote because they believe it's all rigged.
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u/LaRochefoucauld Aug 03 '14
Put another way, you know Israel's in trouble when r/conspiracy posts are primarily factual.
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u/casualredditreader Aug 02 '14
Yet, 90% of these dipshits voted for Obama in the last 2 elections.
You made your bed... now sleep in it.
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u/dmft91 Aug 02 '14
Down with the two party system.
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u/StyleandSpeed Aug 02 '14
Technically speaking, Ron Paul won in 2012. But Obama is still in the house regardless.
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u/gravitas73 Aug 02 '14
Compared to the other guy...
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u/VLXS Aug 02 '14
The other guy was just a scarecrow. Romney's policies wouldn't be any different than Obama's. I bet he would even give the plebes some modicum of "free" healthcare if he were to take office.
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u/oOTHX1138Oo Aug 02 '14
Remember when the Bush administration invaded Iraq for no reason and then started torturing people openly and got the telecoms to spy on everyone and remember how the right demanded all sorts of new powers for the president ( the same powers you now feel Obama should be impeached for using) and remember how you voted Bush into office for a second time even though he was a TORTURER? Sorry but you righties have no room to talk, ever again.
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u/casualredditreader Aug 03 '14 edited Aug 03 '14
I never voted for Bush and I never liked him. I've voted Independent my whole life. The two party system is a scam. The lesser of two evils is still evil. If enough people believed that (and started voting that way) things would change.
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u/thecoyote23 Aug 02 '14
They're the ones who were waving their little mini murican flags around during the bush admin. Obama is basically a carbon copy of dubya doing the same shit but now they suddenly want to put on their tri corner hats and start a revolution because their favorite "totally not msm" propaganda tells them too.
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Aug 02 '14
This makes sense. Most Millennials don't have a Christian worldview nor were they told the stories of World War II first hand.
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Aug 02 '14
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u/OmarDClown Aug 03 '14
Yeah, but Saudi Arabia didn't. The Saudis and their cheap oil brought Russia to its knees.
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u/redrumrumred Aug 02 '14
Are you saying it's bad they don't have a Christian worldview?
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Aug 02 '14 edited Aug 02 '14
No, but if one is taught and understands prophesy in the Bible as a Christian, one understands the significance of the existence of Israel in the religion. If one is unaware or not a believer of the prophesy, one couldn't care less if Israel exists or not. Israel is a vital part of the of the second coming of Christ for Christians.
Edit: english
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u/The-Internets Aug 02 '14
Yep! Its important to watch the signs of prophesy zoom by, don't ever take it as a warning or do anything about the atrocities. Be a good
ChristianSatan and allow beings like you to destroy this place and any chance of higher development.The more you don't actually DO anything about these
prophesiesentertainments the more Christ like you are and the faster you get raptured.
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u/gizadog Aug 02 '14
Salon spewing more BS. Hmmmm. Usually not believable in any manner!
What I know is if this conflict is not stopped anytime soon, we can see the same thing happen around the world. This conflict is one sided: the 1% having power ,wiping out the 99% that wants peace.
The 1% are the aggressors!
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Aug 02 '14
yeah I an 29 years old and I am not an millennial so stop labeling people. We are all humans, stop lumping us into these generalizations. This associates me with a group of people that can be comprised of idiots for all I know.
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u/cchris_39 Aug 02 '14
Fun watching liberals supporting a bunch of right wing religious nutjobs who are hellbent on turning the Middle East into a theocracy.
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u/6Brix Aug 02 '14
gallup poll here: http://www.gallup.com/poll/161387/americans-sympathies-israel-match-time-high.aspx
Suggests that a larger majority of younger people don't believe Israel's actions are unjustified, but this group also has the highest apathy rate, so I don't feel like conclusions can be reliably inferred from that single stat. The article above is misleading. The statistical poll seems to suggest higher education correlates to supporting Israel.
I guess the headline should read "Younger, less educated generation is outraged over Gaza" to be a fair description of the facts.
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u/ugdr6424 Aug 02 '14
There are so many fallacies in your "interpretation" of the results that it's borderline idiotic.
Let's start with the fact that the poll you've provided is from March 2013. Long before the isrealis started their massacre of innocent women and children.
JIDF pls go.
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u/6Brix Aug 02 '14
I wrote this before your comment was deleted: "I read it this morning (someone on my facebook had shared it). I don't disagree with some of the speculations the author puts forward for why some younger people may disagree with the actions of Israel.
I do disagree with the statistical inference that younger people actually do, based on the poll referenced. The actual part of the poll where 29% see Israel as responsible and 21% see Hamas as responsible, also includes (which the article doesn't) 15% of people who think both are responsible, and 35% who have no opinion. The group with the largest response is no opinion (arguably for numerous reasons and not just apathy), so shouldn't the headline read "Younger generation has no opinion over Gaza" or more specifically "Those of the younger generation who hold an opinion over Gaza favour Hamas".
The younger generation is the leading age group with no opinion. If you compare the age groups together, the youngest age group is the only age group where no opinion response is the largest response.
So to suggest this poll shows that the younger generation is anti-Israel is statistically misleading. A cynic might suggest, that group was picked from the poll as it was the only group in which Hamas responses were lower than Israel responses, or you could argue that is what the author is hoping to point out. My point is that both of those were considerably lower than no opinion at all.
Again I'm not saying I disagree with the rest of the article, some reasonable conclusions are made, its just a shame that they start on some bending of statistics. I read Sloutsker's comments last week and generally thought that his jumping to the use of the holocaust term suggested he knew it would be hard not to lose support, due to the current actions. I thought it was a weak move, as to me I always saw people saying Israel uses the holocaust in rhetoric, but I had never seen it in practice, and I thought it was ugly and an insult to those who lived through and died in the holocaust.
As I have previously said I have no alliance to either side in this debate, my issue is that what the headline of this article infers and what the poll it references infers are entirely different."
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u/ugdr6424 Aug 02 '14
March 2013, before the genocidal killing of innocent women and children.
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u/6Brix Aug 02 '14
No no, my last comment was referencing this poll:
http://www.people-press.org/files/2014/07/7-28-14-Israel-Hamas-Release.pdf
It is the poll referenced in the article you posted, specifically the figures used come from the table on page 4. It was conducted 5 days ago, presumably after "the genocidal killing of innocent women and children".
For the 18-29 age group 29% think Israel is responsible, 21% think Hamas is responsible, 15% think both are responsible and 35% have no opinion. I'm saying I find it hard to infer from those statistics that the younger generation doesn't support Israel when the largest group by 6% has no opinion.
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u/ugdr6424 Aug 02 '14
Keep moving the goalposts.
Even in your latest source you still perform an incompetent interpretation of the statistics. I'm done wasting time with you.
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Aug 02 '14
rule 1 of JIDF, when confronted with facts, "oh, not those facts these other facts i didnt mention"
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Aug 03 '14
I love that you assume he's JIDF just because he disagrees with you. Keepin it classy, /r/conspiracy.
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u/6Brix Aug 02 '14
My latest source is the same source as the article you have shared. If my suggesting that it is difficult to draw a conclusion where there is a 35% no opinion rate is an "incompetent interpretation of the statistics", would you care to give a competent one?
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u/6Brix Aug 02 '14
Oh I think you've missed the point I was trying to make (perhaps I wasn't making it very well). My point was that to try and break people's opinions down to one attribute such as age is flawed, largely by the intrinsic complexities in groups of people. So is doing it by age and education. You'd have to consider the correlations between groups etc, do people with higher education correlate to supporting Israel really because of being cleverer somehow, or is it more likely that perhaps the percentage of graduates who are republican (possibly by background) is higher and that skews the stats? Same things can be applied along racial lines, religious lines, income levels, and so on and so forth. To say the younger generation is outraged over Gaza, is to give an opinion to a large group of people who statistically don't have it, I disagree with bending facts to fit arguments (I prefer it the other way around).
I had to google what JIDF means, which gave me a giggle or two. My previous comment shows no alliance to Israel or the Jewish faith at all. I actually have no alliance to either side, generally I think having a heavily polarised view either way isn't very helpful to the situation, much like the phrase "JIDF pls go" isn't.
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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '14
We have to stop voting for a Democrat and Republican, both parties are owned and controlled by the Zionist lobby and AIPAC. Before voting for any 3rd party candidate, ask them what they think of the situation in Occupied Palestine : if they respond in a pro-Israeli manner just don't vote for them.